Should I keep cutting, eat maintenance or bulk? 185lbs down to 165.

[farmfowls]

I started working out around 6 months ago. Wanted to get my body in shape so I questioned a few of my then friends and started doing a 5x5 program. At that time I weighed 180lbs-190lbs. I'm like 5'7" (I never measure my height so I could be off by 2 inches). I had always been skinny but during one college summer I basically did nothing all the time. Stayed in my apartment and sat there for 4 months. For the first time in my life I started gaining weight. My stomach and love handles became pronounced, my face was a bit fat etc etc etc. It's not like I was overly fat as my body became consistent. But if someone were comparing skinny me to "fat" me, that would be a different story.

Anyways, I started to cut in around January, going from eating whatever to 1800 calories a day. I now weigh 160lbs-165lbs. So 20lbs to 30lbs lost. In March, my chest and arms were considerably more muscular than they had ever been and were quite big for my size. They may have not been defined or lean, but whatever. I liked the way my upper body looked but because my stomach area and love handles were still there I continued cutting. This is the beginning of my problem.

Now, my arms are quite smaller and my chest is flatter (which I do not like) and I feel like I did in high school. Like I'm skinny fat. No lean muscle and a belly and love handles. I'm still working out but these goddamn love handles (LH) and my lower abdominal fat (AF) will not shrink down. My goal is to lose that and then build up my muscle mass again so I have a big chest and arms with minimal belly fat or even lean muscle. Whichever is best. The issue is I don't want to keep losing my muscle mass and strength (as I obviously am and have) while doing so. But if thats what it takes, I'll do it. So my questions are as follows:

Taking all of this into consideration, what is the best option?

1) Continue cutting, hopefully lose the love handles (All while becoming a stick) and then go back to maintenance to gain muscle.

a) Will going back to maintenance even give me the option to gain muscle or
would I just get more definition.


2) Continue cutting, hopefully lose the love handles (All while becoming a stick) and then start bulking to gain muscle.

a) How would I go about doing this without gaining all of the AF and LH back
all while building my muscle mass?


3) Start eating maintenance now (So I don't lose anymore muscle) and hope by continually working out, that my AF and LH will disappear?


4) Start bulking now (So I start to gain muscle) and hope by continually working out, that my AF and LH will disappear all while building muscle?


5) Another option?

[Jasonk282]

Slow bulk.

Cutting more will just worsen everything. Fwiw...im currently 170 lbs and you're same height, but been lifting for 6 years consistently.

More time under the barbell will.get you were you want to go

[farmfowls]

Slow bulk.

Cutting more will just worsen everything. Fwiw...im currently 170 lbs and you're same height, but been lifting for 6 years consistently.

More time under the barbell will.get you were you want to go

What does a slow bulk look like?

[Jasonk282]

What does a slow bulk look like?

You eat 200-300 extra calories.
Gaining .5 lbs a week.

[farmfowls]

You eat 200-300 extra calories.
Gaining .5 lbs a week.

How would this allow me to lose the LH?

[Jasonk282]

How would this allow me to lose the LH?

You wont.

You're already 165 lbs...you need to gain muscle and after slowly gaining about 20 lbs, cut back down...youll be doing this several times over the course of your lifting time

[farmfowls]

You wont.

You're already 165 lbs...you need to gain muscle and after slowly gaining about 20 lbs, cut back down...youll be doing this several times over the course of your lifting time

So I need to get back to like 180lbs? When I'm around that, cut again? Repeat? What is this accomplishing? Like I still feel like I have a lot of fat on me. My arms and chest are much smaller than they were but still. Mid cut, I gained a lot of muscle. I just think that when I didn't stop cutting, I lost muscle too.

[PrinceAmir]

Just needed to post pics.

[farmfowls]

Just needed to post pics.

I can take pics (although I'm very self conscious). I'll take some of when I'm bloated like at the end of the day, after a light workout and when I wake up tomorrow. Hopefully that will give you guys a better idea on where I stand. As well, when wearing anything on my waist it makes the LH push out, making the LH's seem worse. So maybe I could harden them up or something (idk I'm new to this). My legs are bigger though (not fat) so the LH sort of match up to the rest of my body.

[sunsean]

You have to decide what your ultimate fitness goals are, and also what you're most comfortable with in the short term - If you had to choose one aesthetic, which would it be: 1) skinny, low body fat, but also low muscle; or 2) a little more muscular, thicker build, but with some excess fat (chest, love handles etc). Because one of these will be you, depending on which path you choose.

If you are someone who has just started working out and paying attention to fitness/diet, and are not too concerned with looking "jacked" - I see no problem with cutting down to low teens body fat or whatever point you would feel better and more confident. As long as you are not dangerously underweight, medically speaking, you will be fine, just might look 'skinny' without the muscle. But if you have been overweight, even slightly so, your whole life, that can be a faster achievable result that will have real life impact than packing on 20lb of muscle, which even with strict training and diet, can take 2 years or more.

I think how someone feels about themselves is an important part of daily happiness and also a factor in staying motivated to continue the fitness journey. If OP is unhappy with his body fat above all else, which seems to be the case from his original post, then being lean, even if skinny, will have a more dramatic and faster impact than slow bulking and adding on to whatever fat he already has...

Again - this is all assuming OP is not interested in competitive BB'ing or looking huge, and is just a regular dude trying to look and feel good about himself. If that's the case OP - I'd recommend eating a little below maintenance (2-3 hundred kcal below) and doing a novice 5x5 or Fierce 5 type full body routine. If you're new to lifting, you may be able to take advantage of that rare newb-metabolism and gain a little muscle while leaning out, essentially doing a slow "recomp". It happened to me when I started getting serious, and it could work for you too. And even if you don't gain muscle, as long as you remain in a slight deficit, you will get leaner, which sounds like is your ultimate goal.

Edit: for reference, I have similar stats to you right now, but with a different body composition - I'm 5'8" 162ish lb, but only 11-12% body fat. 5 years ago, I was where you are, starting out skinny fat. I had already been lifting weights for a while, so had a little muscle underneath, and decided to cut down to six-pack levels before bulking up. 5 years ago, I was 145 lb sub 10% body fat. Did I look like a bodybuilder? Nope. But I felt good about myself. And people noticed how lean I'd gotten and commented/complimented me on it often. I think it was a huge confidence booster for me, and encouraged me to keep hitting the weights to get into EVEN BETTER shape. 5 years later, I'm now about the same body fat but with 20 more lb of FFM. Still not finished, always wanting to add more, but that's what's worked for me. And staying relatively lean for it all has meant I've felt good about myself for the most part, not having to go through fatty/bulky stages...again, as I said above, it's all what your ultimate and short term goals are.

[sooby]

at 5'7 160 I think you need to bulk a little bit. Don't go too overboard, a nice slow bulk of around 2 lbs a month should be sufficient. And then cut once you hit around 175-180. Love handles are very hard to lose and I think you will be disappointed with your results if you cut.

[farmfowls]

You have to decide what your ultimate fitness goals are, and also what you're most comfortable with in the short term - If you had to choose one aesthetic, which would it be: 1) skinny, low body fat, but also low muscle; or 2) a little more muscular, thicker build, but with some excess fat (chest, love handles etc). Because one of these will be you, depending on which path you choose.

If you are someone who has just started working out and paying attention to fitness/diet, and are not too concerned with looking "jacked" - I see no problem with cutting down to low teens body fat or whatever point you would feel better and more confident. As long as you are not dangerously underweight, medically speaking, you will be fine, just might look 'skinny' without the muscle. But if you have been overweight, even slightly so, your whole life, that can be a faster achievable result that will have real life impact than packing on 20lb of muscle, which even with strict training and diet, can take 2 years or more.

I think how someone feels about themselves is an important part of daily happiness and also a factor in staying motivated to continue the fitness journey. If OP is unhappy with his body fat above all else, which seems to be the case from his original post, then being lean, even if skinny, will have a more dramatic and faster impact than slow bulking and adding on to whatever fat he already has...

Again - this is all assuming OP is not interested in competitive BB'ing or looking huge, and is just a regular dude trying to look and feel good about himself. If that's the case OP - I'd recommend eating a little below maintenance (2-3 hundred kcal below) and doing a novice 5x5 or Fierce 5 type full body routine. If you're new to lifting, you may be able to take advantage of that rare newb-metabolism and gain a little muscle while leaning out, essentially doing a slow "recomp". It happened to me when I started getting serious, and it could work for you too. And even if you don't gain muscle, as long as you remain in a slight deficit, you will get leaner, which sounds like is your ultimate goal.

Edit: for reference, I have similar stats to you right now, but with a different body composition - I'm 5'8" 162ish lb, but only 11-12% body fat. 5 years ago, I was where you are, starting out skinny fat. I had already been lifting weights for a while, so had a little muscle underneath, and decided to cut down to six-pack levels before bulking up. 5 years ago, I was 145 lb sub 10% body fat. Did I look like a bodybuilder? Nope. But I felt good about myself. And people noticed how lean I'd gotten and commented/complimented me on it often. I think it was a huge confidence booster for me, and encouraged me to keep hitting the weights to get into EVEN BETTER shape. 5 years later, I'm now about the same body fat but with 20 more lb of FFM. Still not finished, always wanting to add more, but that's what's worked for me. And staying relatively lean for it all has meant I've felt good about myself for the most part, not having to go through fatty/bulky stages...again, as I said above, it's all what your ultimate and short term goals are.

Thank you very much for your response. I think that to try and pick my short-term goals, comes with a very doubled edged sword.

With the Skinny / Low body fat / low muscle route, I feel as though I'd be extremely happy with the loss of my LH etc. This would allow me to not fear taking off my shirt and I'd be able to wear pants properly. But at the same time, I'd feel like a weakling. I had been skinny my whole life before my weight gain (Pre-College), so being skinny is what I have been used to. With that came defending myself (Physically etc, as everyone believed they could pick on the small guy). So I have sort of developed a bit of a Napoleon Complex because of that. When I was skinny, I didn't have the crippling worries about my LH, but I also felt very inadequate.

With the More muscular / thicker build / more fat route, I think that I'd be very happy and confident with my muscle gain but would still have that ever-floating worry about the LH. When I gained the weight initially, I became extremely self-conscious regarding my stomach area / LH. The LH thing is where I think I'm most self conscious in terms of my body. I never take off my shirt, I avoid swimming etc. When I had been working out for a bit (I started around 6 months ago), I was at a point where I had pretty well sized chest and arms. I was still very much self-conscious of the LH etc but having that extra muscle boosted my confidence and took away some of the feelings of inadequacy. At the same time, the worry with the LH was much worse.

I can't really say what I would rather have. I hate the LH and it definitely effects my everyday life, but I also hate my now small looking build and that in turn affects me down to the core. If I could have a build that had LH but the rest of my body matched up, that wouldn't be an issue I think. But in practice, I don't know what I'd like more. After I post the pictures, hopefully you guys could give me some advice on where my body stands, as the only one to judge me this far has been myself.

With cutting, I have lost a lot of muscle as well. I gained a lot of it when I started (to what I think were my noob gains). I was doing a 5x5 (more like 4x5 consistently) program and had made it up to 175lbs bench, 175lbs Squat, 35lbs-45lbs Row, Forgot my DL, and 70lbs Preacher Curls. I'm not interested in competing in any sort of competitions. That’s not apart of any of my goals.

[sunsean]

Thank you very much for your response. I think that to try and pick my short-term goals, comes with a very doubled edged sword.

With the Skinny / Low body fat / low muscle route, I feel as though I'd be extremely happy with the loss of my LH etc. This would allow me to not fear taking off my shirt and I'd be able to wear pants properly. But at the same time, I'd feel like a weakling. I had been skinny my whole life before my weight gain (Pre-College), so being skinny is what I have been used to. With that came defending myself (Physically etc, as everyone believed they could pick on the small guy). So I have sort of developed a bit of a Napoleon Complex because of that. When I was skinny, I didn't have the crippling worries about my LH, but I also felt very inadequate.

With the More muscular / thicker build / more fat route, I think that I'd be very happy and confident with my muscle gain but would still have that ever-floating worry about the LH. When I gained the weight initially, I became extremely self-conscious regarding my stomach area / LH. The LH thing is where I think I'm most self conscious in terms of my body. I never take off my shirt, I avoid swimming etc. When I had been working out for a bit (I started around 6 months ago), I was at a point where I had pretty well sized chest and arms. I was still very much self-conscious of the LH etc but having that extra muscle boosted my confidence and took away some of the feelings of inadequacy. At the same time, the worry with the LH was much worse.

I can't really say what I would rather have. I hate the LH and it definitely effects my everyday life, but I also hate my now small looking build and that in turn affects me down to the core. If I could have a build that had LH but the rest of my body matched up, that wouldn't be an issue I think. But in practice, I don't know what I'd like more. After I post the pictures, hopefully you guys could give me some advice on where my body stands, as the only one to judge me this far has been myself.

With cutting, I have lost a lot of muscle as well. I gained a lot of it when I started (to what I think were my noob gains). I was doing a 5x5 (more like 4x5 consistently) program and had made it up to 175lbs bench, 175lbs Squat, 35lbs-45lbs Row, Forgot my DL, and 70lbs Preacher Curls. I'm not interested in competing in any sort of competitions. That’s not apart of any of my goals.

Ultimately, the idea is to achieve both, loss of fat (getting leaner) and gaining mass. It's just a matter of which to focus on first. Most on here will tell you to bulk, because it's bodybuilding.com, but as I said, it all depends on your self confidence and what YOU want to see out of yourself. If being skinny is an issue for you, you are absolutely good to go and bulk up. 5x5 is great, you could go back and pick up where you left off, or get back to that place, bulk for the next year or so and pack on as much mass as possible. If you are smart about it, and consistent, you can minimize fat gains.

The world is your oyster - the worst thing you can do is over think it and not do anything. Before you know it, another year will be gone and you'll be in the same place. Yes, photos would make advice easier.

[farmfowls]

Ultimately, the idea is to achieve both, loss of fat (getting leaner) and gaining mass. It's just a matter of which to focus on first. Most on here will tell you to bulk, because it's bodybuilding.com, but as I said, it all depends on your self confidence and what YOU want to see out of yourself. If being skinny is an issue for you, you are absolutely good to go and bulk up. 5x5 is great, you could go back and pick up where you left off, or get back to that place, bulk for the next year or so and pack on as much mass as possible. If you are smart about it, and consistent, you can minimize fat gains.

The world is your oyster - the worst thing you can do is over think it and not do anything. Before you know it, another year will be gone and you'll be in the same place. Yes, photos would make advice easier.

What I'll do is post pictures probably on Friday. Internet got shut down where I live so the only place I can access it is at work.

[farmfowls]

A series of events have occurred to stop my picture postings. I will be adding them shortly. Sorry for the wait and thanks for everyone continued assistance. It does seem as though I'm not as skinny as I thought.