After 9 years of manipulating intake, I finally gave IF a try (pics)

[induced_drag]

I have been back to the gym for 9 years now. With the help of Iron Will and guys like Timberwolf, and Alan Aragon for sure, it was not long until I leaned that IIFYM was an effective and do-able lifestyle that would give me the results I wanted and still enjoy life.

I spent 5+ years eating 4-5 month surpluses (at approx 250-300 cal) followed by 10-12 week deficits of 500-750 cal and repeating over and over. I was trining with power as my primary goal. About 3 years ago, I realized I 'topped' out mass wise and 'bulk/cut' was no longer yielding any effective progress.

I decided to get and stay "lean-ish". I have zero problems structuring a deficit. I, however, am ALWAY hungry. It is just a battle of will power. When I dropped down below 10% range in the past, my hunger would win out and I would quit and just be happy where I was at but never really attacking the last bits of stubborn fat.

Since I was a power lifter and never trained for "bodybuilding" I have never paid the cost to really cut down so there were (and at some point still are) little areas of fat hanging on.


I have heard many people talk about IF and I always thought....great if it works for them, but it would not work for me. I like to eat a lot and I break my meals up into 5-6 just so I always have something coming up. But EVERY night I would go to bed hungry. Snacking on pickles or jalapeno peppers....whatever I could chew on, but still not happy.


Early summer decided to give IF a try and within 3 days I was AMAZED at how little I felt in the way of hunger. I could care less about any of the other purported benefits of IF....the hunger control was enough for me. So I have stayed eating this way. No tracking....just knowing where I need to be. I alternate high and lower cal/carb days by feel (or if I want to cheat). I have gotten to the leanest I have ever maintained and done so only by diet. (No cardio involved in the weight loss).

I am going to continue to see how lean I can go without any negative drawbacks. Right now, this is almost "easy" so I am just going to keep with it.

I have to say I am now a believer in IF, even if the benefit is only the suppressed appetite.


Below is a pic of me when I started, then a few mid ways and then one yesterday. (aprox 3 months progress)

[AdamWW]

Well, that's nice... not sure what we're gunna discuss nutritionally about this. But, congrats?

[CoffeeStout]

Mirin lean mass..........just started IF myself again 3 weeks ago, Love the feeling once I get past a certain point (usually 12-16 hours into)....appetite suppressed and I feel light on my feet and alert as hell. Like you said, regardless of all the other anecdotal benefits, not being hungry all dam day is enough for me as well.

[Burgerbuger]

Looking big as fuk OP.

I do IF and agree with it suppressing your appetite for the day. And also I don't feel as sluggish and tired like I do when I eat breakfast/lunch.

[AdamWW]

Looking big as fuk OP.

I do IF and agree with it suppressing your appetite for the day. And also I don't feel as sluggish and tired like I do when I eat breakfast/lunch.

i experience the opposite, at least until a point:

wake up hungry
within 1 hour not hungry
then within 2-3 total hours of waking i'm ravenous... if I don't eat then it just sucks more.

[Mikeez0]

i experience the opposite, at least until a point:

wake up hungry
within 1 hour not hungry
then within 2-3 total hours of waking i'm ravenous... if I don't eat then it just sucks more.

My fast lasts only during sleep, not fan of big meals though

[induced_drag]

Well, that's nice... not sure what we're gunna discuss nutritionally about this. But, congrats?

Well IF is a nutritional strategy is it not?

I consider myself a guy with quite a bit of background and years of real world practice of nutrition and diet manipulation. I have 2+ years of keto experience also (back in my 20's). 18 years of training in the gym to go along with that. I thought I had it all figured out. I had many times listend to the guys talk about IF, and I just always dismissed it as I felt it was not for me.

So I figure if a guy with my experience might overlook such an effective tool, my guess is others have dismissed it as well. In that regard, posting this in the nutrition forum seemed to be an appropriate place. I like to share training experiences. This one surprised me greatly so I posted it here.

Mirin lean mass..........just started IF myself again 3 weeks ago, Love the feeling once I get past a certain point (usually 12-16 hours into)....appetite suppressed and I feel light on my feet and alert as hell. Like you said, regardless of all the other anecdotal benefits, not being hungry all dam day is enough for me as well.

Yes 100% I also am not crazy strict. I drink coffee (2-3) cups until my first meal at 2pm. I use powdered MCT as a creamer. Proably only about 10 cals. I dont think that is going to kill me or hurt the overall effect of consolidating my meals. I will also eat as late as I want. Sometimes (on lower carb days) I have a shake with 4g luecine, 20g whey islolate and some fiber and dont drink it unitl 10-1030pm. I am not strict about the 16/8 or whatever.

Looking big as fuk OP.

I do IF and agree with it suppressing your appetite for the day. And also I don't feel as sluggish and tired like I do when I eat breakfast/lunch.

Thanks man. Never been able to get real lean before. I of couse knew how, I would just always get to a point where I wanted to eat more than I wanted to be leaner. IF has changed that for me.

i experience the opposite, at least until a point:

wake up hungry
within 1 hour not hungry
then within 2-3 total hours of waking i'm ravenous... if I don't eat then it just sucks more.

I was like that for the first few days, and then now sometimes I have to remind myslelf to eat (srs) I have hit 3pm and realized I never stopped to eat.

My fast lasts only during sleep, not fan of big meals though

Was the same for a very long time. Depending on goals, it might be worth a consideration.

[Nedo]

Did you lose any strength/muscle while you were cutting down? If not were you able to get stronger while being in a deficit or just maintain for most part?

I've been considering doing IF on weekends to better control my appetite and 420 munchies. During the week I'm ok eating within my calorie tolerance as I'm busy with work and gym in evenings. Seems like free time is my evil.

[AdamWW]

My fast lasts only during sleep, not fan of big meals though

I just eat when I feel like it... i mean I work in an office.. easy enough to 'find time' to eat... i don't see added convenience with fasting really.

But if i wasn't hungry until 11... it's not like i'm going to FORCE feed it. It varies for me all the time, so might as well just not think too much about it.

[AdamWW]

ith that. I thought I had it all figured out. I had many times listend to the guys talk about IF, and I just always dismissed it as I felt it was not for me.

So I figure if a guy with my experience might overlook such an effective tool, my guess is others have dismissed it as well.

Is it really that surprising? You skipped breakfast, you ate less food...

[induced_drag]

Did you lose any strength/muscle while you were cutting down? If not were you able to get stronger while being in a deficit or just maintain for the most part?

I've been considering doing IF on weekends to better control my appetite and 420 munchies. During the week I'm ok eating within my calorie tolerance as I'm busy with work and gym in evenings. Seems like free time is my evil.

I dont train for strength anymore, so that would be hard to tell. That said, most people would still consider me strong. As an example, I took 2+ years off deadlifting and at the beginning of this year, I worked them in again, and after 8 workouts I went back up to 585x4. I also barely squat anymore. If I do, I do them no-handed and rarely go above 315. (which was still warm-up for me when I was training heavy). I will sometimes squat 405 no-handed just for the fun of it and the concentration it takes.

I have realized that at my stage of the game, there is little progress to be had. BUT, I can maintain my base doing almost nothing compared to how hard I had to train to gain it. I spend most of my workouts doing TUT training.

Getting to muscle loss....that is almost impossible to say without possibly a DEXA scan. I am sure there must be some....there has to be. But I have a pretty good foundation, and many times over the years have seen the power of muscle memory. If I did over-cut, it would be nothing more than bringing food back up to a conservative surplus and training hard and it would come right back. (probably with a touch of fat too and there is the rub).

My key has been to lose slowly to maintain my density and strength and never sacrifice too much mass in a cut. I have spent 4 years working down this lean. My first few cuts would stop at decent ab stages and then go right back to surplus. Now that I see no need to eat up 30lbs and then back down again.....I can focus on being lean and staying there. I have many years of strength training under my belt, so my gains are hard to lose. (something I have seen different from guys who build their physiques doing mostly "bodybuilding" workouts.)

For me IF represents another tool in the shed. It has it's purpose...... Maximizing gains and strength would NOT be one of them in my opinion. Being too lean is NOT a strength advantage. In fact as I get leaner over time, even though over 7-8 years I carried more lean mass, I never saw a significant strength increase. I was stronger (lb/lb) when I was 11-12% bf. Constantly leaning, hardening, losing intermuscular fat (which you cant measure with a caliper but you can see in the muscle) makes you weaker over all. If sports and performance are a goal......do NOT lean too much.

I just eat when I feel like it... i mean I work in an office.. easy enough to 'find time' to eat... i don't see added convenience with fasting really.

But if i wasn't hungry until 11... it's not like i'm going to FORCE feed it. It varies for me all the time, so might as well just not think too much about it.

I dont know what your goals are, but if you really only weigh 127lbs and being strong and building muscle are a goal, you really need to lean to force yourself to eat. Mass does not come from thin air. I spent years in totality eating surpluses after my newbie gains were gone. I would eat up 25-30 lbs over 4-5 months in hopes of adding another 3-5 lbs. I did it over and over. EVERY night of eating a surplus is hard. You always feel like you are going to throw up. It is just the way it is. Some people say cutting sucks....well try a controlled surplus. That is tougher.

I will just say this. I have seen that most people fail in the gym primarily because of diet.

IF size and strength are a goal....and you do not see the scale move at least 1lb every 2 weeks, you are not eating enough period. I wont go so far as to say you are wasting your time.....but out of the newbie gains period.....if there are gains to be had, a caloric surplus is the most efficient way to get them. The more controlled you can do it, the longer you can run it so you dont pick up too much body fat. After 4-5 months though you have to pull back and reset.

Recomping is a giant waste of time....unless you like to progress VERY slow. For a guy like me, recomping is worth a shot, since I have little hope of gaining new mass. But anyone out there with growth potential still left, learn to eat. And yes....get uncomfortable.

[Burgerbuger]

i experience the opposite, at least until a point:

wake up hungry
within 1 hour not hungry
then within 2-3 total hours of waking i'm ravenous... if I don't eat then it just sucks more.

How long you been on it? I've been doing it for 6 months now while simultaneously decreasing my calorie intake slowly over time. I don't eat breakfast or lunch, only dinner.

It might be harder for you because going from your picture you appear pretty lean as is.

[AdamWW]

How long you been on it? I've been doing it for 6 months now while simultaneously decreasing my calorie intake slowly over time. I don't eat breakfast or lunch, only dinner.

It might be harder for you because going from your picture you appear pretty lean as is.

I'm not 'on it'... i'm not trying to lose weight.

IF is totally fine but I do think that once you get to a certain leanness the effects on appetite lose efficacy because you lack stored energy to create adequate leptin.

My personal preference if I ever did a cut would just be going by a more simple model: put off eating for as long as I can.... eat a shyt ton of veggies..

[induced_drag]

Is it really that surprising? You skipped breakfast, you ate less food...

Listen dude, I dont think I need a lesson on calorie balance. Might be something you want to brush up on though.

As an example below is a few years of macro ratios, carb and fat cycling protocols I have experimented with. (I was cleaning up my desk so I scanned all my post it notes).

This is not my first rodeo dude. I was surprised at how well IF worked for me (mainly appetite suppression wise). Being lean and not carrying a lot of mass is not very hard. But if you have an interest in maintaining size and strength, while getting and staying lean, you might find it is a bit more than ...."putting off eating as long as you can and then eating veggies".

I am a firm believer in high protein intake. For the past 9 years, I eat 220-240g of protein each and ever day. It is one thing to say that. Then people start tracking and they realize that is approx 3lbs of lean meat a day. I choose to consume a good portion of my protein in the form of unflavored pure whey isolate, along with 1lb of lean meat and the rest dairy.

I should have known by your first comment that you are not interested in discussing anything....but rather seem injecting your 'wit' is a delight to us all. Well.....not so much man.

[AdamWW]

Listen dude, I dont think I need a lesson on calorie balance. Might be something you want to brush up on though.

As an example below is a few years of macro ratios, carb and fat cycling protocols I have experimented with. (I was cleaning up my desk so I scanned all my post it notes).

This is not my first rodeo dude. I was surprised at how well IF worked for me (mainly appetite suppression wise). Being lean and not carrying a lot of mass is not very hard. But if you have an interest in maintaining size and strength, while getting and staying lean, you might find it is a bit more than ...."putting off eating as long as you can and then eating veggies".

I am a firm believer in high protein intake. For the past 9 years, I eat 220-240g of protein each and ever day. It is one thing to say that. Then people start tracking and they realize that is approx 3lbs of lean meat a day. I choose to consume a good portion of my protein in the form of unflavored pure whey isolate, along with 1lb of lean meat and the rest dairy.

I should have known by your first comment that you are not interested in discussing anything....but rather seem injecting your 'wit' is a delight to us all. Well.....not so much man.
[img]https://i.imgur.com/IkSXedj.jpg[img]

Yeah... i really need a lesson on how to be lean... not.

Pretty sensitive for a 45-year old, aren't we?

[needabelt99]

looking thic OP, nice work

[Ondle]

This post is stupid and OP is not natty. There I said it. You ate less congratulations. A calorie deficit works. IF is just a tool to eat less.

[mgftp]

IF Master Race checking in, welcome to the club OP. Amazing the quality of life difference IF has afforded me, only wish I wasn't so stuck in my ways to do it sooner.

Listen dude, I dont think I need a lesson on calorie balance. Might be something you want to brush up on though.

As an example below is a few years of macro ratios, carb and fat cycling protocols I have experimented with. (I was cleaning up my desk so I scanned all my post it notes).

This is not my first rodeo dude. I was surprised at how well IF worked for me (mainly appetite suppression wise). Being lean and not carrying a lot of mass is not very hard. But if you have an interest in maintaining size and strength, while getting and staying lean, you might find it is a bit more than ...."putting off eating as long as you can and then eating veggies".

I am a firm believer in high protein intake. For the past 9 years, I eat 220-240g of protein each and ever day. It is one thing to say that. Then people start tracking and they realize that is approx 3lbs of lean meat a day. I choose to consume a good portion of my protein in the form of unflavored pure whey isolate, along with 1lb of lean meat and the rest dairy.

I should have known by your first comment that you are not interested in discussing anything....but rather seem injecting your 'wit' is a delight to us all. Well.....not so much man.

FYI, you are engaging with one of the forum's lowest IQ posters, I'd just have a good laugh at Adam's posts and move along.

[AdamWW]

IF Master Race checking in, welcome to the club OP. Amazing the quality of life difference IF has afforded me, only wish I wasn't so stuck in my ways to do it sooner.



FYI, you are engaging with one of the forum's lowest IQ posters, I'd just have a good laugh at Adam's posts and move along.

white-knighting on another dude.

nice. ya'll are cute together.

[SOJA]

You queens need to shut up and move along or at least try to be friendly.


Also, OP, I don't believe IF has major benefits, but if you like it and works for you, do what you want to do. The only thing you should do is probably dress as Kal Drogo or whatever his name is from Game of Thrones or Lord the Rings, whatever it was. Or the Hulk.

[Strawng]

IF is totally fine but I do think that once you get to a certain leanness the effects on appetite lose efficacy because you lack stored energy to create adequate leptin.

This was my experience personally. I actually naturally did “IF” my entire childhood & teen years. I was always lean, but since my eating disorder wherein I dropped below 10% BF, IF became a thing of the past because I got so horribly hungry without a steady supply of food. Below a certain % of bf, (definitely somewhere in the single digits) I think you’re essentially running meal to meal.

[AdamWW]

This was my experience personally. I actually naturally did “IF” my entire childhood & teen years. I was always lean, but since my eating disorder wherein I dropped below 10% BF, IF became a thing of the past because I got so horribly hungry without a steady supply of food. Below a certain % of bf, (definitely somewhere in the single digits) I think you’re essentially running meal to meal.

100%, this.

It's likely an interplay between hormones as well as basic energy balance (or lack thereof) to accommodate activity. Not only will your body fight it's natural tendency to tap into fat as calories, it will also induce 'extreme hunger' levels because, hormonally and mentally, you're just not normal anymore. I also posit that, in a situation like you had/I have, it does take a slightly or even moderate over-compensation of fat storage before those hormones are restored and leptin is once again available and regulated normally.

That's basically me right now... if my 'tank' isn't always running a little over-full, it appears my body knows that, once circulating nutrients are gone, there is zero ability to tap-into storage (cuz there isn't any). If I accidentally 'fast', i know it right away

[SOJA]

How do you naturally do IF? o.O

[636 HunteR]

Snacking on pickles or jalapeno peppers

LMAO i thought i was the only one

[SOJA]

Jalapenos? Surely you guys mean baby bell peppers?

[AdamWW]

Jalapenos? Surely you guys mean baby bell peppers?

those bags at costco...

I could down like 5 of them in a sitting...

dangerous... dangerous things... especially aside some hummus. BRB heartburn for days.

[Strawng]

How do you naturally do IF? o.O

Parents never made me breakfast when I was young & I never got hungry in the morning plus I frequently skipped my school lunch because we literally had prison food in grade/middle school, so I had a 6-7 hour "eating window" max. Coffee made me continue that habit in high school & college. I never had a morning appetite until I was extremely low body fat.

[cornman99]

OP please prove natty status otherwise claiming it was IF is pretty bs.

[AdamWW]

Parents never made me breakfast when I was young & I never got hungry in the morning plus I frequently skipped my school lunch because we literally had prison food in grade/middle school, so I had a 6-7 hour "eating window" max. Coffee made me continue that habit in high school & college. I never had a morning appetite until I was extremely low body fat.

For me in high school I was always hungry it seemed. I mean come to think of it, even when I was 'bigger' (which is another way of saying upper-end of normal weight range but higher BF... so... yeah) I was eating a LOT of food... late at night i'd raid the freezer... tons of ice cream, pizza, etc... and yet I never cracked beyond MAYBE 5 pounds into the overweight category, though of course I wasn't really healthy.

Since the ED, though, my hunger is just too unpredictable to put a label on. Some days depending on gut motility, I'll feel zero hunger/urges until like 11am... then feel STARVING all of sudden. Others, I wake up to piss at like 3am and feel ravenous, and also feel ravenous immediately in the 'proper' morning time when it's my time to go to work... but one things I've also been considering is that other sensations that I do feel now could actually be those same hunger signals I've always felt, but my ED has programmed me to treat them as nothing of note.

Point-being, it's definitely possible to program the habits... for sure... likely due to changes in hormonal signalling and other more habit-driven and subconscious mechanisms which push priority for food back.

I mean even for me, in my way-too-light-and-lean state, when i'm active like out playing golf, I don't really notice my hunger much because I'm distracted. Then, when I sit down for 20min, suddenly I could eat a house.

[induced_drag]

This post is stupid and OP is not natty. There I said it. You ate less congratulations. A calorie deficit works. IF is just a tool to eat less.

I went to check out your profile pics...and imagine that.....none to be found. I have nothing to hide, and am straight up about my history. (see below)

looking thic OP, nice work

Thanks!

IF Master Race checking in, welcome to the club OP. Amazing the quality of life difference IF has afforded me, only wish I wasn't so stuck in my ways to do it sooner.
.

I almost feel so damn stupid that I had never tried it. I just used to listen to all the guys doing it....and thought.....'whatever.....that is not for me'...or felt it would never work for me. I am happy to share my foolishness and hope others might gain from it.

You queens need to shut up and move along or at least try to be friendly.


Also, OP, I don't believe IF has major benefits, but if you like it and works for you, do what you want to do. The only thing you should do is probably dress as Kal Drogo or whatever his name is from Game of Thrones or Lord the Rings, whatever it was. Or the Hulk.

I also never said I buy into the many of the purpoted benifits of IF. For me the key is appetite supression. That is the only reason I would stop prior deficits. I know I could have gotten leaner, I just wanted to eat more than I wanted to be leaner. This is soooo very different. I am not struggling at all.. Zero. I actually sometimes have to remind myself to eat a little more some days. After YEARS of traditional deficits I have been on, I can say that is definetly not the norm for me. From week 3-4 of a deficit, I go to bed hungry every night. As I get leaner, the hunger gets greater.

Below are a few pics from 2 or 3 years ago. This was the furthest I leaned out prior to throwing in the towel on a conventional deficit. I am MUCH MUCH leaner now than these pics. Just my tan was better back then.

This was my experience personally. I actually naturally did “IF” my entire childhood & teen years. I was always lean, but since my eating disorder wherein I dropped below 10% BF, IF became a thing of the past because I got so horribly hungry without a steady supply of food. Below a certain % of bf, (definitely somewhere in the single digits) I think you’re essentially running meal to meal.

I am pretty lean right now....and zero hunger. Maybe what you say is true around essential bf levels, but for me IF is VASTLY different than a traditional deficit even when lean.

Jalapenos? Surely you guys mean baby bell peppers?

Nope...jalepnoes! By the mouthfull. Pickles too....halepenoes do it better sometimes.

OP please prove natty status otherwise claiming it was IF is pretty bs.

Nothing to prove. I am no longer 100% natural. I was for almost 20 years and discovered that a head trauma (broken neck and frontal TBI from 09) left me hypo-gonadal. I was in pretty good shape for a dude with the test levels of a 12 yo girl. I was 3 years back into training before I figured out why I felt so bad. I had zero issues with strength (was closing in on a 400lb raw bench and 600lb deadlift).....but I felt like crap and had terrible fatigue. I wish the rules of this forum allowed more open discussion as I would be happy to answer any questions. I too have many misunderstanding about what the differences are between training naturally and otherwise. When you already have as much time under your belt as I did, the differences are not all that great. I was truthfully disappointed. Sure, if you do what an IFBB guy does (or half the 20-somethings in the gym) you can probably do very well. But I can maintain my size and strength on natural levels as they were built that way. I am not interested in doing anything nuts at my age. I am as big and strong as I want to be.

For the record, my recent cut was also at natural levels. I do believe there still is an advantage for sure. Getting very calorie restriced lowers most guys homones. When I first went under a dr's care, I notice that my TDEE raised almost 200 cals a day. (I used to track very close).

Here are my last pics as a natty from a few years back. These were only 3 years back trainng after a decade off.




Now 6 years later, I am about 7-8lbs heavier. I can say I am not sure if I would have been able to achive my current physique totally natrually. I might have gotten close, but to deny that there is an impact and benifit would be foolish. I'd proably be 8-10 lbs lighter.






FWIW...this is 23 years difference in my physique. I was just a baby in this pic. 22 I think. That was at about my 3 year mark in the gym. So I have been at this a while and certainly did not look like this overnight.




FWIW....this was where I started. Yes, I was all natural and put on 50lbs in the course of 3 years from this pic.


Cornman99. Feel free to post some of your pics up. If you want to call others out, be prepared to show what you have done...