Separation of Families

[Austanian]

They may go to jail, but the children are not thrown in cages or tents while sleeping on dirty matresses lol

No... But they are thrown in the foster care system if both parents are in jail...

[Cleveland33]

Stay there. Go make another keto thread

yes, please leave the grownup talk to us pseudo intellectuals and beowulf

[Tuksonrider]

There are over 400k children in foster care right now. I'd wager a good portion (likely a 10x multiple of the 2k separated at the border) are separated from their parents because crimes the parents committed

Where is your bleeding heart for them OP? Why don't you care about American children?

As a foster parent, I will tell you the difference. The difference is that the bio-parent and child aren't separated 1000's of miles and across state lines. They aren't kept from communications. They aren't separated for MISDEMEANORS (could you imagine your child taken away for a misdemeanor... like I don't know... caught jaywalking, trespassing, etc?). They are given regular visits, even if the bio-parent is incarcerated. The goal is always reunification with the bio-parent.

The current situation is that there is no paper-trail linking the child from the bio-parent of many of these 2300 children. Once, they were separated, the children were handed over to HHS as an "unaccompanied child". Do you, or anyone here have ANY IDEA WHAT THAT MEANS? It means, that the child no longer has a bio-parent that can be reached. That is now up to the incarcerated bio-parent and child, across 1000's of miles in a strange land, to find each other.

[InstantLoser]

I wonder how Americans would react if white American families were separated in another country and the white American children held captive?

Oh, there would be an outrage!

If you have no compassion with what was happening at the border between America and Mexico, then I guarantee, you would flip a chit if what I said above happened to white American families.

Moral Correctness > Racist/Diet Racism

fyi - Im not a bleeding heart lib. Just want to make that clear.

Im Pro-life, pro-gun, Only 2 genders crew, you name it lol..

If I illegally entered another country, I'd expect to be subject to their laws.

[scheal]

There are over 400k children in foster care right now. I'd wager a good portion (likely a 10x multiple of the 2k separated at the border) are separated from their parents because crimes the parents committed

Where is your bleeding heart for them OP? Why don't you care about American children?

How dare you offend his liberal sensitivities

[BFast55]

true story

I bet you thought you were being clever when you created this thread.

[WannaGetYoked27]

Separating them isn't a good solution. There are alternatives.

Says there's alternatives, offers none

[arn710]

As a foster parent, I will tell you the difference. The difference is that the bio-parent and child aren't separated 1000's of miles and across state lines. They aren't kept from communications. They aren't separated for MISDEMEANORS (could you imagine your child taken away for a misdemeanor... like I don't know... caught jaywalking, trespassing, etc?). They are given regular visits, even if the bio-parent is incarcerated. The goal is always reunification with the bio-parent.

The current situation is that there is no paper-trail linking the child from the bio-parent of many of these 2300 children. Once, they were separated, the children were handed over to HHS as an "unaccompanied child". Do you, or anyone here have ANY IDEA WHAT THAT MEANS? It means, that the child no longer has a bio-parent that can be reached. That is now up to the incarcerated bio-parent and child, across 1000's of miles in a strange land, to find each other.

They certainly could be separated for misdemeanors and illegal entry is only a misdemeanor for the first offense. I have a hard time believing children separated from their parents due to incarceration are taken for visits. Do you have any evidence of this? I'm certain the goal is reunification in this instance too so that's not a difference

I'm questioning the validity of this entire paragraph. Show me something that backs up your claim. This blows your claim out of the water so you'll need something pretty big here:

https://www.dhs.gov/news/2018/06/18/...lerance-policy

[Tuksonrider]

They certainly could be separated for misdemeanors and illegal entry is only a misdemeanor for the first offense. I have a hard time believing children separated from their parents due to incarceration are taken for visits. Do you have any evidence of this? I'm certain the goal is reunification in this instance too so that's not a difference

I'm questioning the validity of this entire paragraph. Show me something that backs up your claim. This blows your claim out of the water so you'll need something pretty big here:

https://www.dhs.gov/news/2018/06/18/...lerance-policy

Yes, foster children are taken to see their parents in jail or prison for visitation. It's actually quite common, and illegal to deny visitation. I have facilitated this.

As someone who has their ear to the ground with foster care, the current system is in chaos. Most of the separated kids and parents have no idea where each other are.

I will forward this to misc, there are and will be whistle blowers both within ICE and HHS in the matter. I hope the gov't gets sued up the ass for this.

[neuron]

Your point? Those who are caught not being law-abiding are arrested and tried... moron

Wrekt

[arn710]

Yes, foster children are taken to see their parents in jail or prison for visitation. It's actually quite common, and illegal to deny visitation. I have facilitated this.

As someone who has their ear to the ground with foster care, the current system is in chaos. Most of the separated kids and parents have no idea where each other are.

I will forward this to misc, there are and will be whistle blowers both within ICE and HHS in the matter. I hope the gov't gets sued up the ass for this.

I have no doubt there are issues but I have already shown you what you claimed is not policy

[Tuksonrider]

I have no doubt there are issues but I have already shown you what you claimed is not policy

I'm not claiming there isn't a policy, I am telling you that if there is, they sure as hell ain't following it. It's in total chaos.

[sy2502]

The current situation is that there is no paper-trail linking the child from the bio-parent of many of these 2300 children. Once, they were separated, the children were handed over to HHS as an "unaccompanied child". Do you, or anyone here have ANY IDEA WHAT THAT MEANS? It means, that the child no longer has a bio-parent that can be reached. That is now up to the incarcerated bio-parent and child, across 1000's of miles in a strange land, to find each other.

You trying to tell us that if eventually they send the parents back to their country, the children don't get to go with them? Seems unlikely.

[Tuksonrider]

You trying to tell us that if eventually they send the parents back to their country, the children don't get to go with them? Seems unlikely.

I have no idea what they will do. They don't have a system in place right now to effectively reunite most of the already 2300 kids separated from their bios. Especially those who are non-verbal (usually under 1.5 years), or those that can't effectively articulate who their parents are, where they are, etc.

Because the policy change happened so fast, CBP, DHS, ICE, HHS were all caught unprepared to separate the huge influx of children from parents.

[rdwire88]

I bet you thought you were being clever when you created this thread.

The cleverness behind all this was actually bringing-forth anyone who is racist. Which worked out pretty well lol..

[metallicide]

The cleverness behind all this was actually bringing-forth anyone who is racist. Which worked out pretty well lol..

Uh oh someone disagrees with you, time to yell racist

[beowulf10]

White American parents who break the law are sent to jail. And if they have kids, they are separated from their kids. Now you mad bro?

Your point? Those who are caught not being law-abiding are arrested and tried... moron

What aren't people getting about the word illegal, as in they are here illegally. If same scenario you said in OP happened and they are illegally in another country that's on their dumbasses for doing it and they knew the risk.

Hardly anyone in the US is detained for minor crimes prior to trial. What happens in most cases for minor crimes is that the defendant is granted bail or released on their own recognizance.

[rdwire88]

[beowulf10]

OP - during a news conference by either ICE or Sanders they threw out some crazy stat that the majority of the kids are not blood related to the adults they are with, but are being used by asylum seekers. So whatever your ideas are, a DNA test comes first. You pass, you get reunited, you fail with no written authorization from the kid's parents, congratulations felony human trafficking.

“Kirstjen Nielsen Justifies Family Separation by Pointing to Increase in Fraud. But the Data Is Very Limited.

President Trump’s homeland security secretary said the number of immigrants fraudulently posing as families has tripled. That’s true per government data. But those cases make up less than 1 percent of families apprehended at the border.”

https://mobile.nytimes.com/2018/06/1...factcheck.html

You are being lied to, hoodwinked, bamboozled by bigots and racists who do not view illegal immigrants as human beings.

[Cleveland33]

[QUOTE=beowulf10;1554460911You are being lied to, hoodwinked, bamboozled by bigots and racists who do not view illegal immigrants as human beings.[/QUOTE]

Your emotions are being manipulated by the MSM.

[Noliberals4]

Hardly anyone in the US is detained for minor crimes prior to trial. What happens in most cases for minor crimes is that the defendant is granted bail or released on their own recognizance.

Except illegals aren't Americans.

[beowulf10]

Your emotions are being manipulated by the MSM.

The fact that a 315 percent increase of an incredibly small number is still an incredibly small number has nothing to do with emotions and everything to do with math. And the inability to abandon emotion for logic in light of facts like these has everything to do with the base reptilian-like emotions of tribalism, bigotry and racism.

[dt97197]

I wonder how Americans would react if white American families were separated in another country and the white American children held captive?

Oh, there would be an outrage!

If you have no compassion with what was happening at the border between America and Mexico, then I guarantee, you would flip a chit if what I said above happened to white American families.

Moral Correctness > Racist/Diet Racism

fyi - Im not a bleeding heart lib. Just want to make that clear.

Im Pro-life, pro-gun, Only 2 genders crew, you name it lol..

You aren’t pure enough for the Trump nuts. They’ll hate you as much as me, who is pro choice, anti gay, pro gay marriage.

[dt97197]

White American parents who break the law are sent to jail. And if they have kids, they are separated from their kids. Now you mad bro?

For speeding? For misdemeanors?

[beowulf10]

Except illegals aren't Americans.

People are justifying the separation of families by making an analogy of Americans committing crimes in America, but it’s not an accurate analogy because we have a wide variety of crimes in the US and wide variety of various remedies and punishments, and there are two general principles of our legal system we can refer to: 1) punishments must be proportionate to the crime, and 2) with regard to pre-trial detention there is an emphasis on keeping people out of prison/jail until their case has been judged, especially when there are situations where a parent would end up separated from their child or situations where there might be some sort of harsh burden on families. And the way we approach situations like that is to use mechanisms like bail bonds.

[dt97197]

Commit a crime and you get detained/go to jail. Since when have kids ever went with their parents to jail?

Next time you don’t pay use tax on an internet purchase it’s jail time for you then.

[Noliberals4]

People are justifying the separation of families by making an analogy of Americans committing crimes in America, but it’s not an accurate analogy because we have a wide variety of crimes in the US and wide variety of various remedies and punishments, and there are two general principles of our legal system we can refer to: 1) punishments must be proportionate to the crime, and 2) with regard to pre-trial detention there is an emphasis on keeping people out of prison/jail until their case has been judged, especially when there are situations where a parent would end up separated from their child or situations where there might be some sort of harsh burden on families. And the way we approach situations like that is to use mechanisms like bail bonds.

You are free to take in these people in your house if you want.

[dt97197]

I agree, keep them together.

Then boot them all out at the same time, no mercy.

Then how about the American Indians boot everyone out of here?

[InstantLoser]

Then how about the American Indians boot everyone out of here?

Was the US a Country with sovereign borders and laws when the Indians were "in control"? And I say in that in quotation marks because at best, they simply lived here and traversed the land in search of food; A nomadic existence. If the Buffalo had gone north to Canada, there'd have been nobody here when the colonists arrived. If they'd gone south, we'd have illegal Indian immigrants right now instead of Mexicans. The Indians never laid claim to the land; indeed they believed land could not be owned anyway. It was never theirs, ergo it was not taken from them, ergo they have no right to "kick everyone out of here" as you put it.

[Cleveland33]

The fact that a 315 percent increase of an incredibly small number is still an incredibly small number has nothing to do with emotions and everything to do with math. And the inability to abandon emotion for logic in light of facts like these has everything to do with the base reptilian-like emotions of tribalism, bigotry and racism.

I am logically looking at it:
Parents are wrong, need to be detained or deported immediately.
Kids should not be detained in the same facility as adults.
Therefore, logically, they should be separated. Just like we separate American children from detained parents.