Struggling with protein

[laura983]

I'm 5'3, and currently weigh 218lbs (down from 226lbs a few weeks ago, so all is going well).

Per the TDEE calculator, I've been aiming for 1500 calories comprising 151g protein, 67g fat, and 75g carbs (40/40/20). Per my earlier post, I'm falling a little under on calories, and averaging more like 30/45/25 on the splits.

On the protein front, I'm struggling to consume more than 100g in the usual course of my meals, and when I've tried to force it, by cooking up some plain chicken, I've ended up upsetting my tummy and being unwell for a few days. This has happened twice now, when pushing protein over 120g.

I had my gallbladder removed earlier this year, and digestion has been a bit of a struggle since, and I'm wondering whether the extra protein may be an irritant. Anyone else here have similar issues?

I know my body weight determines that I should be getting more protein, but will I struggle on this journey if I keep it a little lower?

[LunaLifts]

100g is fine for most anyway. Most TDEE calculators tend to advise more protein than you need. One told me 180, lol.

Don't hurt your guts trying to get a bunch, if you can get 100g without an upset stomach, then go with that.

[kimm4]

You can lower your protein intake if you choose to do so. I'm more concerned about why you're starting a new diet with such a low calorie intake. When you have more to lose you can go a bit more aggressive with your deficit but I think those numbers are too aggressive. You're going to be doing this for a while and when you dip too low you end up burning out. Save the lowering of calories for when it's really needed and that time isn't yet.

[Ninaaaaaaa]

I know I might be crucified for saying this, but in my experience huge amounts of protein are very overrated. The only way I lost weight and kept it off is by not focusing on protein, but calorie counts and including a variety of vegetables, nuts/seeds and legumes in my diet.

I did protein counting, bought all the protein powders that were top rated and very expensive (they went to waste) etc. and I did actually lose weight, I just never kept it off because I don't normally eat so much protein anyway. It was such a chore. It's not enjoyable for me to have the nasty tasting protein drinks or all these meat products in excess. A little bit is fine.

I think later when you lose the weight and if you're interested in body building, you can worry about protein. It also becomes easier to deal with because you look at your progress and you're like "We can't go back now, we need to go further, you have to do this". But when you can't see any physical changes, and on top of that you need to stuff your face with foods and drinks you don't normal consume or at least not in those amounts, it's just torture with no rewards so it leads to quitting.

I say measure calories for now until you lose weight, then worry about macros.

[laura983]

You can lower your protein intake if you choose to do so. I'm more concerned about why you're starting a new diet with such a low calorie intake. When you have more to lose you can go a bit more aggressive with your deficit but I think those numbers are too aggressive. You're going to be doing this for a while and when you dip too low you end up burning out. Save the lowering of calories for when it's really needed and that time isn't yet.

Hi Kimm4

Thank you for taking the time to reply.

I pulled 1500 from the TDEE calculator someone recommended to me, and, to be honest, it really hasn't been a struggle. In fact, I'm finding myself up to 100 calories under most days.

My calorie intake has never been enormous. When I've kept a diary before, I've averaged around 2000, so this is really a 500 cut. My problem, and cause of weight gain, has been my never ending love of carbs, particularly rice, where I would often eat 2 portions in one sitting on a very regular basis (5 days+). Add a lunch of more carbs, a breakfast of even more carbs, and I'd often find myself at a reasonable calorie intake, but comprising mostly carbs which I wasn't burning off as I sat on my fat ass in an office every day! I understood the principal of my weight gain, just never did anything [sustainable] about it!

This is now my 4th week at 1500 calories and I'm averaging 1-2lbs loss a week, which I think is a healthy amount. I'm not going hungry, and allowing myself 'treats' on the weekend (a treat for me is rice, don't laugh!). On Saturday, I had greek yoghurt with berries for breakfast, chicken salad for lunch, followed by a homemade beef bourguignon + rice with a glass of wine for dinner. I also had a snack of french cheese and some olives. Saturday was a very satisfying food day for me, and all within my calorie limits.

I started SL5x5 about 10 days ago, and I appreciate that as my workouts get harder, I may need to consume more calories to support it, and I will. But for the time being, I think 1500 calories is fair.

[kimm4]

Hi Kimm4

Thank you for taking the time to reply.

I pulled 1500 from the TDEE calculator someone recommended to me, and, to be honest, it really hasn't been a struggle. In fact, I'm finding myself up to 100 calories under most days.

My calorie intake has never been enormous. When I've kept a diary before, I've averaged around 2000, so this is really a 500 cut. My problem, and cause of weight gain, has been my never ending love of carbs, particularly rice, where I would often eat 2 portions in one sitting on a very regular basis (5 days+). Add a lunch of more carbs, a breakfast of even more carbs, and I'd often find myself at a reasonable calorie intake, but comprising mostly carbs which I wasn't burning off as I sat on my fat ass in an office every day! I understood the principal of my weight gain, just never did anything [sustainable] about it!

This is now my 4th week at 1500 calories and I'm averaging 1-2lbs loss a week, which I think is a healthy amount. I'm not going hungry, and allowing myself 'treats' on the weekend (a treat for me is rice, don't laugh!). On Saturday, I had greek yoghurt with berries for breakfast, chicken salad for lunch, followed by a homemade beef bourguignon + rice with a glass of wine for dinner. I also had a snack of french cheese and some olives. Saturday was a very satisfying food day for me, and all within my calorie limits.

I started SL5x5 about 10 days ago, and I appreciate that as my workouts get harder, I may need to consume more calories to support it, and I will. But for the time being, I think 1500 calories is fair.

I'm sorry but the numbers don't jive. At your stats if you were truly eating between 1400-1500 calories your weekly drop would be higher than 1-2 lbs. The weight would be falling off of you using numbers this low. This calorie intake would be cutting numbers for 125-130 lb female (and even they can possibly eat more for fat loss.)

There's no way your maintenance is only 2000 calories...that number is way off. A 1-2 lb loss a week is fine but get a food scale so you can figure out your true intake.

[laura983]

I'm sorry but the numbers don't jive. At your stats if you were truly eating between 1400-1500 calories your weekly drop would be higher than 1-2 lbs. The weight would be falling off of you using numbers this low. This calorie intake would be cutting numbers for 125-130 lb female (and even they can possibly eat more for fat loss.)

There's no way your maintenance is only 2000 calories...that number is way off. A 1-2 lb loss a week is fine but get a food scale so you can figure out your true intake.

Ok, I've just found various online calculators. I've pumped my stats in and got the following:-

bodybuilding.com calculator - 1824 maintenance
tdeecalculator.net - 1994 maintenance
JCDFitness.com - 2092 maintenance

Are they all wrong?

On 23rd Oct, I weighed 226.5lbs.
Today, bang on 4 weeks, I've weighed in at 218.8lbs.
(I was 218.2 when I started this thread, but at the end of a week during which I'd had terrible diarrhea. It has crept up a few points in the days since).

Week 1 - average 1519 calories
Week 2 - average 1655 calories (due to a celebratory weekend which I allowed myself to over-indulge (but still counted every item consumed)
Week 3 - average 1089 calories (this is the week I had the severe Brad Pitts, as mentioned in the original post above, so ate very little for 2 days at the start of the week whilst I tried to get my tummy back on track)
Week 4 - average 1320 calories

I have been weighing everything meticulously, down to the 17g of sweet gem lettuce I added to the 173g of chicken breast, coated in 3g of chicken seasoning, cooked in 2ml of virgin olive oil, that I wrapped in a 42g quinoa & chia seed wrap today at lunchtime.

[PresDonaldTrump]

Possibly a bit off topic now as I see it's gone more about calorie consumption.

Getting more protein is quite easy, spread your eating out as wide as possible so you aren't cramming down a lot in a short time. Use protein powders, drink milk I have around 3pints a day, nuts are good for snacking and packed with protein, tinned tuna or mackerel go down quick and easy in 5 minutes and are worth 20-25g per tin and they're all cheaper than chicken or beef or more expensive fish like salmon.

A pint of milk is worth around 11g I think so just two of those is a significant increase.

Of course all this might not work out with a low calorie diet!

[RyanT7]

Just get whey protein, ez fix

[LunaLifts]

tdeecalculator.net - 1994 maintenance

I picked this one, because I use it. Typed in your stats according to your post, female, 34, 218lbs, 5'3" with a light activity factor and got 2300 (rounded up a tiny bit).

Unless you sit or lie down 90% of the week, with no exercise at all, your maintenance won't be 2000.

Your BMR is 1658, so eating below that is doing more harm for your stomach (and body) than good. Sure you'll lose weight, but those are that calories you body needs to function. Your heart, liver, brain, kidneys, etc need those calories. Plus eating so little doesn't help digestion, heartburn/acid reflux, and diarrhea can both occur when you drop calories that low or when you drop them quickly. If you want to increase your TDEE/deficit increase your activity (low impact stuff, walking, swimming, weights, etc), don't go try to go that low. Just working out a few days a week would have you burning closer to 2600cals.

If you're tracking with an app like MFP, you've gotta make sure the entries are correct. The database is largely user-created, and has a lot of bad entries. I use fatsecret, and have updated/corrected a buttload myself. Do you eat out? The calorie counts for restaurants foods, are an estimate, and all it takes is the chef that day being a little heavy handed with portions (especially butter/oil), anything that's not pre-portioned, they're eyeballing themselves.
The biggest issue with tracking is usually the lack of a food scale, the other two are these, so it's worth mentioning.

[laura983]

Thanks Luna,

I'll increase my calorie intake from next Monday and see where that gets me. The weight isn't dropping off at any considerable pace, in fact, it's still at the 218 mark, which I suspect is my body recovering from the few days of terrible diarrhoea I had the other week. So its still within the 1-2lbs per week margin (I wouldn't look to lose more than that in any case). I have so much more energy, am waking up feeling much brighter and ready for the day, so thats positive!

Incidentally, my digestion has been a real problem since I had surgery in March. I take a good digestive enzyme which helps a lot, but its still very iffy. I'm working on identifying foods that irritate and have already cut a few things that I started to realise were triggering upset (milk, being one, although other dairy doesn't seem to be a problem (so far)), so I have a few battles I'm fighting at the moment. In a roundabout way, dieting and working out in this way is helping me keep track of digestive problems, so I'm hoping I'll be in a much better position in the next 6-12 months.

I track using MFP and scan the barcode of everything that I eat/cook with. I then double check the entries against the nutritional info listed on each packet, so I'm comfortable that my logging is as accurate as I can possibly make it. Just today, I made high protein fusilli pasta for lunch. I scanned the barcode and the numbers were out, so went in and created a new food to match the packet, so I'm 'on it', as it were.

I also have a good digital kitchen scale and everything goes on that first too, so there is no guessing or eyeballing at my end. I've only eaten out once since tracking, and despite having a plain chicken salad (no dressing), I added an extra 30% to the calorie count just in case. We don't make a habit of eating out, as my parter and I are pretty reasonable cooks and enjoy the process of making homecooked food.

On a separate note, I'm really enjoying the SL5x5 programme which I moved onto 2ish weeks ago. So much more than the other 'internet trainer' based programme I was on before! I'm now 7 sessions in, feel stronger, love the challenge, and can see body improvement, particularly around my shoulders. I know this isn't a 'diet support' forum, so I guess I'm just saying thanks to everyone who has given me tips/advice/feedback over the last few weeks, you're part of a game changer!

[Amanda76]

Your low carbohydrate intake may have something to do with your struggle with diarrhea, due to a lack of soluble fiber in your diet. Because the bile produced by your liver no longer has a place to be stored, you end up with an unregulated stream of less concentrated bile going straight to your intestines. That, in and of itself, has a laxative effect. The purpose of soluble fiber, of course, would be to add bulk to your stool. You obviously wouldn't want to add a bunch at once (which could cause gas and constipation), but it may be something you could use more of. Trading 150 cals worth of a protein serving for 150 cals worth of oats (or something else with a good amount of soluble fiber) may be worth a try to alleviate the pressure of eating so much protein while keeping your calories up and getting a good serving of fiber. Adding black beans or orange slices to your salads (depending on the flavor result you want), would be a great way to add soluble fiber and get your calories up without going nuts trying to eat more protein, too.

Because you no longer have a gall bladder to concentrate and release bile when it's needed, it may be difficult for you to process large amounts of fat at a time as well. I do know people who have gone on a lower fat (not no fat) diet, ensuring not to eat too much during a single meal who experienced relief. First step there, before lowering fat intake, is to make sure your fat sources are evenly distributed throughout several small meals a day.

And I do agree with everyone who has stated your calories shouldn't need to be so low to make steady progress! 1,300 calories is ridiculous if you're well again!

[LunaLifts]

On top of what Amanda said, because that's great advice: Have you talked with a registered dietitian (not a nutritionist) since the surgery? One may have some advice for how your digestion will be effected now, as well as advice on foods that may irritate your stomach.

SL is a great starter program by the way. Solid choice.

[laura983]

Thank you both Luna and Amanda.

Re the carb levels, I've been suffering with diarrhoea since my op in March. Its only been 4 weeks since reducing my carb levels so I'm not entirely convinced the two are related. If anything, my stools have become better (my diet is currently more balanced than it has been in a long time, even if the macro levels may need further tweaking), although on two occasions of pushing my protein levels beyond 120g, I had bad bouts, which was the reason for my original post, to see if high protein had similar effects on anyone else who may have removed their gallbladder.

Incidentally, I made a concerted effort post-op to increase my fibre levels and did this by having oats/high fibre breakfast each morning, only to realise a few weeks ago that milk is upsetting my tummy (doh!). I'll take on your suggestion anyway and try and get some oats / higher fibre foods in elsewhere, without milk!!

Luna, my GP is aware that I'm having digestive troubles and I am currently going through the necessary NHS hoops to see if I can be referred to a specialist. In the first instance, I'm now on a digestive enzyme (which does seem to be helping) and keeping a food diary. I've been tasked with trying to identify foods that might cause issues, which I am still working on. Once I've done that, and given it sufficient time, I'll have another appointment and they'll consider if a referral is appropriate. Our free healthcare system might be good, but its not quick! If I don't get referred, I'll go private, but would like to avoid the cost to my own pocket if I can.

This week is averaging 1523 calories so far, so back up from 1320 last week - I think it was still low due to the illness the previous week.

I'll increase to 1700-1800 next week and see how that goes with weight loss.

Thank you all again.

[Amanda76]

Thank you both Luna and Amanda.

Re the carb levels, I've been suffering with diarrhoea since my op in March. Its only been 4 weeks since reducing my carb levels so I'm not entirely convinced the two are related. If anything, my stools have become better (my diet is currently more balanced than it has been in a long time, even if the macro levels may need further tweaking), although on two occasions of pushing my protein levels beyond 120g, I had bad bouts, which was the reason for my original post, to see if high protein had similar effects on anyone else who may have removed their gallbladder.

Incidentally, I made a concerted effort post-op to increase my fibre levels and did this by having oats/high fibre breakfast each morning, only to realise a few weeks ago that milk is upsetting my tummy (doh!). I'll take on your suggestion anyway and try and get some oats / higher fibre foods in elsewhere, without milk!!

Luna, my GP is aware that I'm having digestive troubles and I am currently going through the necessary NHS hoops to see if I can be referred to a specialist. In the first instance, I'm now on a digestive enzyme (which does seem to be helping) and keeping a food diary. I've been tasked with trying to identify foods that might cause issues, which I am still working on. Once I've done that, and given it sufficient time, I'll have another appointment and they'll consider if a referral is appropriate. Our free healthcare system might be good, but its not quick! If I don't get referred, I'll go private, but would like to avoid the cost to my own pocket if I can.

This week is averaging 1523 calories so far, so back up from 1320 last week - I think it was still low due to the illness the previous week.

I'll increase to 1700-1800 next week and see how that goes with weight loss.

Thank you all again.

Glad you're getting your food intake back up! Hope you find a solution soon!