Everything in the universe is predetermined

[GravityLee]

Damn a lot of losers on this site.

If I get drunk tonight and get in a car and kill a family of 4 coming home from the movies the universe didnt set that into motion.

On the same hand if I study 8 hours a day to be a doctor or engineer and graduate with a degree thats also all me.

You guys are on a level of loser cope i dont ever want to understand. Bunch of hentai jerkin wow playing dumb ass losers. Keep praying for sex robots you fukin bums. Inb4 pseudo intellectuals try to talk about meteors hitting the earth and ice caps melting. Irrelevant. What I control is relevant.

[300BLK]

I see it more like we have free will, but our abilities are only limited to how we're designed.

You can make choices, but you can't make choices beyond what you're capable of. IQ, talent, ailments, etc are proof of this.

[martin545]

Change Your Destiny Now!


Fist Yourself!

[Reliance012]

What you're basically describing is chaos theory and how it relates to chemistry/biochemistry.

I have concluded that:

You either believe in free will, the spirit and the creator.

OR

you believe everything is predetermined and there is no creator, that everything is just a set of interactions between molecular events that lead to other molecular events that will happen no matter what our meta cognition is able to conjure.

Pick either one of these, it's up to you.

BUT one will lead to a more pleasurable journey than the other.

Hope this helps any one feeling lost,hopeless and weak.

Except these two world views are not equally likely.

"It is far better to grasp the universe as it really is than to persist in delusion, however satisfying and reassuring."
-Carl Sagan

[f00d]

I wish this thread wasn't.

[martin545]

[-Lucifer]

you believe everything is predetermined and there is no creator, that everything is just a set of interactions between molecular events that lead to other molecular events that will happen no matter what our meta cognition is able to conjure.

This is what I believe as I'm not an idiot.

[GravityLee]

This is what I believe as I'm not an idiot.

Thats because youre ugly which is 100% your fault if youre not muscular and 12% or less bf srs.

Ugly people tend to not believe in free will or God because theyre always chosen last for friends or fuking. They cope by #1 trying to pass the buck that its not their fault (it is your fault) and #2 believing theres no God because why would he make you ugly

[Armord]

I think this is called Determinism.

It's gotta be true

[toursover]

Damn a lot of losers on this site.

If I get drunk tonight and get in a car and kill a family of 4 coming home from the movies the universe didnt set that into motion.

On the same hand if I study 8 hours a day to be a doctor or engineer and graduate with a degree thats also all me.

You guys are on a level of loser cope i dont ever want to understand. Bunch of hentai jerkin wow playing dumb ass losers. Keep praying for sex robots you fukin bums. Inb4 pseudo intellectuals try to talk about meteors hitting the earth and ice caps melting. Irrelevant. What I control is relevant.

Show me where I was using the idea of the universe being deterministic as a coping mechanism. You still get to make your own choices and those choices will influence your life.

Its just a fact, just like the fact that in the grand scheme of things our lives don't matter. That doesn't mean we should just give up and not try to make the best of them.

[toursover]

The thing is your particular belief system doesn't involve choices, because choices are the result of neuronal biochemical reactions that follow the laws of physics. One event leads to another. You are an organism reacting to outside stimuli and there for reacting to events that were simply brought on by prior events.

You only believe in choice if you believe in the creator.

That's true. It's not a comforting view but I can't choose to not believe it if it makes sense to me.

[Armord]

Damn a lot of losers on this site.

If I get drunk tonight and get in a car and kill a family of 4 coming home from the movies the universe didnt set that into motion.

On the same hand if I study 8 hours a day to be a doctor or engineer and graduate with a degree thats also all me.

You guys are on a level of loser cope i dont ever want to understand. Bunch of hentai jerkin wow playing dumb ass losers. Keep praying for sex robots you fukin bums. Inb4 pseudo intellectuals try to talk about meteors hitting the earth and ice caps melting. Irrelevant. What I control is relevant.

the universe did set that into motion. maybe this is too complex for you?

[300BLK]

The thing is your particular belief system doesn't involve choices, because choices are the result of neuronal biochemical reactions that follow the laws of physics. One event leads to another. You are an organism reacting to outside stimuli and there for reacting to events that were simply brought on by prior events.

You only believe in choice if you believe in the creator.

That doesn't make sense. A creator is a creator. He's not bound by one theory. He could give you the ability to make choices or have you predetermined for some other function.

[Armord]

You're looking at things from a limited perspective and I'd wager that humans are at the tip of the ice berg in terms of biological/psychological evolution. If and when we advance thousands of years down the road, we may be able to understand more and expand the way we look at everything.

Remember - the Earth used to be flat and thought we had it all figured out.

But this doesn't really have anything to do with us having everything figured out. It really doesn't have anything to do with us at all. The dominoes that are the universe are falling and there's nothing we can do about it.

[toursover]

You previously stated that

" You still get to make your own choices and those choices will influence your life. "

You retract your prior statement with your new statement.

You're inconsistent and there-for your points are invalid.

Again, I'm not sharing what i think or what the truth is, i'm simply presenting you with evidence, to which you can come to your own conclusions.

Its not inconsistent. You get to make choices, but those choices are predetermined.
Example: I can choose to not respond to your post or to respond to your post. However the choice I made was predetermined. I was using the word "choice" in the classical context that refers to every day life. Human brains have evolved to allow us to choose how to react to external stimuli. Deciding what to do as a response to something is a choice.

[PisseninMisc]

The reason it's a probability function is because that's how we model it. In reality the electron is in a discrete location. Just how in horse racing there is a probability a horse will win, even though we all know that there is an actual winner. Only in the case of an electron, we can't know exactly which horse won.

lol you have to try better than that to rustle me you silly troll. If you're srs I feel bad for you mane, you need to recognize when you're out of your depth, humble your ******* self and go study a little bit more.

The electron isn't a particle in an orbit with a discrete location like you saw on a chart in your chem class in high school. In fact it's not a "particle" like you're thinking about it at all. The probability function doesn't describe the possibility of a discrete location, it's a spatial probability field of a charge. I agree with you that we don't understand most of this stuff nearly as much as Sci Fi movies have you believe, which is exactly why your original claim of deducing predestination (or lack thereof) is absurd.

[truthhurts]

trying to be pseudo intellectual doesn't really work when you post chit like

"or what ever the smallest division of matter is"

[SmackBang77]

The motions and behaviors of everything down to the sub atomic particles that make up everything we know is governed by the laws of physics. Since at any given moment the configuration of every sub atomic particle (or what ever the smallest division of matter is) is specified, due to the laws of physics there is only one way things can proceed.

In theory if you knew the position and configuration of every bit of matter in the universe you'd be able to predict what will happen next. In reality its impossible because it'd be impossible for us to obtain this information. And even though there are things we consider to be "random", they aren't truly random. Its random to us because we have no way of measuring them.

Sad but true.

that's probably god's plan, just lol at plebs who think religion is antic. It's the most modern chit alive son

[GravityLee]

I just dont agree with this theory in any way shape or form. A wild example.

A meteor is headed towards earth but we realize its coming. Its going to take 50 years to get to us. If it impacts everyone dies. Scientists cant figure out how to stop it. A few years go by and a man who can possibly go on to design a rocket to stop the meteor is born. He is a genius, goes to mit, goes to work at lockheed martin and nasa, etc.

Hes at the gym working out and takes a preworkout. It kills him. They analyze his body. He had a pre existing condition. The chance of him dying was .000001%. The meteor hits years later and everyone dies.

Now personally i am religious and woukd believe God wanted to end his creation. But lets take God out of it.

You bozos would believe it was preset in time that he would drink preworkout and die. I believe first that he made a choice to take it and second the dice were rolled and he got really unlucky. But none of it was predetermined. I find this entire debate to be absolute nonsense.

[numberguy12]

I have yet to see a convincing argument for free will. Even if you allow for random processes at the subatomic level, and that's a big if....at best you would have: our thoughts and choices are due to....randomness? That's certainly not a freedom of will. You're better be off just acknowledging they are a result of deterministic physical processes.

I get it that the idea of determinism is uncomfortable. We want control. We want to feel that a criminal is intrinsically bad and chose to commit the crime. But I don't see a good argument for free will: We live in a universe of matter and physical laws...there is no reason to assign our brain some mystical status and separate it from the rest of the universe.

[Socrawell]

Entropy increasing just means that there's less available work to convert into useful energy. The atoms involved in any process that cause entropy to increase, whether it be heat transfer through a finite temperature difference, friction, ect, all have a discrete location and amount of energy before and after that process. Calling entropy a measure of "disorder" is meaningless, unless you can explain what it ACTUALLY means to me.

[/b]Yes randomness is exists, but its only random to US. The location of an electron around the nucleus is "random" to us because we literally have no way of measuring where it is. However just because we can't measure it doesn't mean that that electron doesn't have a discrete position at any point in time. The variation of atmospheric conditions seem "random" to us because we don't know the position of EVERY single molecule of matter on Earth.
[/b]

And name me something that's actually metaphysical. Curious.

My understanding of Heisenberg's Uncertainty is not that it is simply a measurement beyond our ability to calculate, but that knowing certain information about a particle is mathematically mutually exclusive with learning other info about it. If you can measure where it is, then equations based on how fast it should be going wont add up. And vice versa. It's not that we cant measure these things. It's that when you learn one subset of info, suddenly the math for the other goes haywire.

Also, it's been shown that our perception of particles actually effects ther positioning. That's REALLY weird.

You are presuming there are concrete laws for the very nitty gritty of consciousness, perception, and reality. Im not sure that's true. Your assertion that it all comes down to potentially solvable physics equations seems naive.

[butwhowasgains]

Op was predetermined to be a *******

[Socrawell]

I have yet to see a convincing argument for free will. Even if you allow for random processes at the subatomic level, and that's a big if....at best you would have: our thoughts and choices are due to....randomness? That's certainly not a freedom of will. You're better be off just acknowledging they are a result of deterministic physical processes.

I get it that the idea of determinism is uncomfortable. We want control. We want to feel that a criminal is intrinsically bad and chose to commit the crime. But I don't see a good argument for free will: We live in a universe of matter and physical laws...there is no reason to assign our brain some mystical status and separate it from the rest of the universe.

What if your life is a dream, and the physical laws you think exist... dont?

[butwhowasgains]

I have yet to see a convincing argument for free will. Even if you allow for random processes at the subatomic level, and that's a big if....at best you would have: our thoughts and choices are due to....randomness? That's certainly not a freedom of will. You're better be off just acknowledging they are a result of deterministic physical processes.

I get it that the idea of determinism is uncomfortable. We want control. We want to feel that a criminal is intrinsically bad and chose to commit the crime. But I don't see a good argument for free will: We live in a universe of matter and physical laws...there is no reason to assign our brain some mystical status and separate it from the rest of the universe.

I have free will because im god.

Srs

[numberguy12]

What if your life is a dream, and the physical laws you think exist... dont?

If we don't have physical laws....then we basically have nothing to work with. And any conversation about the universe, free will, or anything would be meaningless. I would also invoke occam's razor here and say there is no need to add the extra assumption of everything being a dream.

[numberguy12]

I have free will because im god.

Srs

Not a convincing argument...

[butwhowasgains]

If we don't have physical laws....then we basically nothing to work with. And any conversation about the universe, free will, or anything would be meaningless. I woiuld also invoke occam's razor here and say there is no need to add the extra assumption of everything being a dream.

I invoke occams razor and postulate that the least assumptions are required to theorize that nothing is real because if nothing is real then assumptions arent real so there are no assumptions.

Checkmate athiests.

[SoFluffy]

Except these two world views are not equally likely.

True. Determinism/materialism are the most laughable superstitions ever conceived.

LOL @ quoting Sagan, a populist of scientism (not science).

[SoFluffy]

Thats because youre ugly which is 100% your fault if youre not muscular and 12% or less bf srs.

Ugly people tend to not believe in free will or God because theyre always chosen last for friends or fuking. They cope by #1 trying to pass the buck that its not their fault (it is your fault) and #2 believing theres no God because why would he make you ugly

Fckin' LOL

Not intellectually defensible but good point nonetheless.

[VTaperBrah]

Now the most important question, OP, is; will your life be better and more fulfilled if you delude yourself into thinking you have free will or if you accept your deterministic fate?