Well so long 1,3-dimethylamylamine (DMAA)

[VaughnTrue]

What is this “drug” in the yeast used for? Just curiosity, ive never heard of it

Lovastatin is a statin that lower cholesterol.

[OT2000]

Shouldn't really exceed 4 mg realistically though. They did do a study with various RYR products and found the range to be 0.15–3.37 mg. The study was from 2001.

Not sure about that specific study but I am guessing it was tested per pill or per dose. FDA will measure per maximum dose. If the total daily max dose is >4mg they will warn you. I guarantee you companies get cited every year.

[kissdadookie]

Not sure about that specific study but I am guessing it was tested per pill or per dose. FDA will measure per maximum dose. If the total daily max dose is >4mg they will warn you. I guarantee you companies get cited every year.

Per pill I believe it was.

[VaughnTrue]

Not sure about that specific study but I am guessing it was tested per pill or per dose. FDA will measure per maximum dose. If the total daily max dose is >4mg they will warn you. I guarantee you companies get cited every year.

http://journals.sagepub.com/eprint/k...aa9Jr35Fn/full

We analyzed 28 brands of red yeast rice supplements by ultra-high performance liquid chromatography-diode array detector-quadrupole time-of-flight mass spectrometry for mona****n K content. Mona****n K was not detected in two brands. In the 26 brands that contained mona****n K, the quantity ranged more than 60-fold from 0.09 to 5.48 mg per 1200 mg of red yeast rice. Following the manufacturers’ recommendations for daily servings, the quantity of mona****n K consumed per day would range more than 120-fold from 0.09 to 10.94 mg. Despite FDA manufacturing standards, strength and composition of red yeast rice supplements sold at mainstream retail stores in the United States remains unpredictable.

would love to see what other brands were hit for this in 2017 LOL

[OT2000]

http://journals.sagepub.com/eprint/k...aa9Jr35Fn/full





would love to see what other brands were hit for this in 2017 LOL

Only ones that produce dmaa? He he he

But in all srs, I still bet others have been cited. You can see all their warning letters on their site but fuk it trying to find one specific in that long ass list.

[VaughnTrue]

Only ones that produce dmaa? He he he

But in all srs, I still bet others have been cited. You can see all their warning letters on their site but fuk it trying to find one specific in that long ass list.

Most recent I can find it in 2015, and it wasn't for the active constituents, but how they were promoted/marketed:

FDA reviewed your website at the Internet address www.natureshealth.com in October 2015, and has determined that you take orders there for the products Ginkgo & Rhodiola, Blood Sugar Balance IV, Cinnamon Extract, Choles-Balance Red Yeast Extract, Lecithin, Milk Thistle Seed Extract, Intestine Relaxer I for IBS, Intestine Relaxer II (for crohns), Red Sage, Selfheal, BUN Balance, Bronchi Relaxer I, Lung Cleaner II, Hyper-care, Hypo-care,St. John’s Wort, Standardized Valerian Extract, Head Relaxer I, Head Relaxer II, Urinary Balance,and Urinary Balance II,we have determined that these products are promoted for conditions that cause them to be drugs under section 201(g)(1)(B) of the Act [21 U.S.C. § 321(g)(1)(B)]. The therapeutic claims on your website and product labels establish that these products are drugs because they are intended for use in the cure, mitigation, treatment or prevention of disease. As explained further below, introducing or delivering these products for introduction into interstate commerce for such uses violates the Act.

[kissdadookie]

Those supplements approaching the 10 mg threshold is problematic in terms of public health. That's prescription strength dosage of lovastatin. It comes with the same risks as prescription lovastatin (it wasn't allowed to be sold OTC for a reason, Merck wanted to, the FDA didn't allow it).

[Motiviert]

Stocked up for a lifetine+(srs) last year when this same kind of thing happened. Hope it all works out

[OT2000]

Most recent I can find it in 2015, and it wasn't for the active constituents, but how they were promoted/marketed:

Typed in red yeast rice on their site, this came up

https://www.fda.gov/iceci/enforcemen.../ucm569430.htm

Was for labeling/Misbranded as well, not amount but then again I wasn’t going through 334 links. A 2014 amount citation came up as well. Maybe they don’t check amounts but clearly had a reason to with HTP.

[DamonX]

I just hope they don't ban betaalanine, or I'll lose my sh*t. May the tingles live forever

[fbcpastormk]

Thanks for all the information Vaughn

[Big_Spaz]

I am building my stash as quickly as I can. I'm not missing out this time like I have on all the other 419 supplement bans






-Spaz

[Hyruliangoat]

interesting approach but dmaa isnt done lol. had the court in the last ruling taken the approach the judge did in the jack3d case which he literally went to town on the science super in depth the result would have been entirely different 100%. hope the appeal works

[LoudyRowdy]

I am building my stash as quickly as I can. I'm not missing out this time like I have on all the other 419 supplement bans






-Spaz

So you are saying Hi Tech is gonna lose....

[NumbNuh]

Already bought a couple containers of Cent. Labz Rage w/DMAA and Mesomorph the other day. I guess I'm just gonna have to stop abusing these pre wo's every other day to make them last lmao

[VaughnTrue]

So you are saying Hi Tech is gonna lose....

As of right now, there is nothing to "lose" in regards to DMAA. The current issue at hand (as can be verified in the public court documents) is the Choladrene (red yeast rice) and the anabolics. The DMAA issue right now is simply that the FDA got the judge to agree that in order to satisfy bond, Jared would agree to not sell DMAA until these other issues are handled...which he is without question attacking as hard as is possible.

[Big_Spaz]

So you are saying Hi Tech is gonna lose....

Hi-Tech NEVER loses ... because according to everyone else DMAA was going to be gone last year. And here I am, just overflowing my e-cart

I don't use a ton of DMAA, so grabbing what I am now will last me forever (ban or no ban) so I'm just being proactive for once instead of always being reactive.





-Spaz

[NumbNuh]

Even if this goes through, there's a couple sites that sells DMAA in a solution as a research chemical.

[kissdadookie]

Hi-Tech NEVER loses ... because according to everyone else DMAA was going to be gone last year. And here I am, just overflowing my e-cart

I don't use a ton of DMAA, so grabbing what I am now will last me forever (ban or no ban) so I'm just being proactive for once instead of always being reactive.





-Spaz

Uhm, what?

April 3rd, 2017 you guys were denied summary judgement and the FDA was awarded summary judgement in favour of the FDA. Shortly after you guys filed a motion to reconsider which the court denied. You guys probably filed for an appeals case but that case is non-existent currently nor are you guaranteed for an appeals case to even be granted.

This indictment which Wheat has received, from what VT posted, the feds doesn't seem to have that strong of a case BUT none of us really know since none of us really know all of the products being questioned and how far this all goes back, if the feds actually tested anything, what evidence they have, etc. The lovastatin thing, I have no idea what the dosage of Mona****n K is per dose in the HTP product in question but I can see how the feds would have a strong case if the amounts are significantly higher than products which have previously been studied. This would be a similar argument for vitamin D3. There's a limit dosage per serving for vitamin D3 that you are allowed to sell as a nutritional supplement before it becomes prescription only.

The following may be telling though:

********************/@anthonyroberts/d...i-1bd819b2e8eb

Notice how the DEA may have temporary scheduling authority which from what I can gather, gives them far quicker and faster maneuverability than emergency scheduling with less pushback. Also hugely important, 4-DHEA is listed as a compound that might get explicit listing on the next update to DASCA. I would not be surprised if they are also going to end up including all of the anabolic DHEA metabolites.

Even if this goes through, there's a couple sites that sells DMAA in a solution as a research chemical.

Yeah, something people don't realize is that DMAA you can basically buy for "research" purposes but just not manufacture and sell as a dietary ingredient. It's not a controlled substance. It's not a banned substance. It is however according the DSHEA guidelines, non-compliant and thus illegal to use a dietary ingredient.

[VaughnTrue]

Uhm, what?

April 3rd, 2017 you guys were denied summary judgement and the FDA was awarded summary judgement in favour of the FDA. Shortly after you guys filed a motion to reconsider which the court denied. You guys probably filed for an appeals case but that case is non-existent currently nor are you guaranteed for an appeals case to even be granted.

This indictment which Wheat has received, from what VT posted, the feds doesn't seem to have that strong of a case BUT none of us really know since none of us really know all of the products being questioned and how far this all goes back, if the feds actually tested anything, what evidence they have, etc. The lovastatin thing, I have no idea what the dosage of Mona****n K is per dose in the HTP product in question but I can see how the feds would have a strong case if the amounts are significantly higher than products which have previously been studied. This would be a similar argument for vitamin D3. There's a limit dosage per serving for vitamin D3 that you are allowed to sell as a nutritional supplement before it becomes prescription only.

The following may be telling though:

********************/@anthonyroberts/d...i-1bd819b2e8eb

Notice how the DEA may have temporary scheduling authority which from what I can gather, gives them far quicker and faster maneuverability than emergency scheduling with less pushback. Also hugely important, 4-DHEA is listed as a compound that might get explicit listing on the next update to DASCA. I would not be surprised if they are also going to end up including all of the anabolic DHEA metabolites.



Yeah, something people don't realize is that DMAA you can basically buy for "research" purposes but just not manufacture and sell as a dietary ingredient. It's not a controlled substance. It's not a banned substance. It is however according the DSHEA guidelines, non-compliant and thus illegal to use a dietary ingredient.

In an effort to not get banned for discussions on here that aren't allowed, I'll respond to this by saying "the nomenclature used to list 1 of the 4 compounds on the link provided above does not include any of the listed active ingredients within HTP products"..

AR got his nomenclatures wrong, and they're not currently attempting to schedule anything HTP sells (from what I can see on official documents)

[kissdadookie]

In an effort to not get banned for discussions on here that aren't allowed, I'll respond to this by saying "the nomenclature used to list 1 of the 4 compounds on the link provided above does not include any of the listed active ingredients within HTP products"..

AR got his nomenclatures wrong, and they're not currently attempting to schedule anything HTP sells (from what I can see on official documents)

On the indictment, perhaps. The new update being discussed for DASCA isn't in place yet but you can clearly see that they intend to add 4-DHEA to the list and likely all the other anabolic DHEA metabolites. So it appears that it's coming down the pike soon. My guess is before the new year.

Remember, the DEA and FDA no long have to list out the nomenclature for compounds anymore since DASCA 2014. The way DASCA 2014 is worded gives them A LOT of room to maneuver.

[VaughnTrue]

On the indictment, perhaps. The new update being discussed for DASCA isn't in place yet but you can clearly see that they intend to add 4-DHEA to the list and likely all the other anabolic DHEA metabolites. So it appears that it's coming down the pike soon. My guess is before the new year.

Remember, the DEA and FDA no long have to list out the nomenclature for compounds anymore since DASCA 2014. The way DASCA 2014 is worded gives them A LOT of room to maneuver.

I am not reading what you're referring to...the list AR posted doesn't list any DHEA derivatives that I can see. Link?

[kissdadookie]

I am not reading what you're referring to...the list AR posted doesn't list any DHEA derivatives that I can see. Link?

Look at the document screenshots in his post. Forget about the compounds AR listed. Notice that the DEA is disclosing that they are going to both update DASCA again as well as starting to exercise their power to temporarily schedule compounds and then proceed to formally schedule it (meaning listing out of compounds, the temporary scheduling however is muddy waters though because it basically means the DEA can do whatever they want to do as long as they suspect a compound is a form of anabolic compound that they feel are similar to or derivatives of testosterone).

[VaughnTrue]

Look at the document screenshots in his post. Forget about the compounds AR listed. Notice that the DEA is disclosing that they are going to both update DASCA again as well as starting to exercise their power to temporarily schedule compounds and then proceed to formally schedule it (meaning listing out of compounds, the temporary scheduling however is muddy waters though because it basically means the DEA can do whatever they want to do as long as they suspect a compound is a form of anabolic compound that they feel are similar to or derivatives of testosterone).

will be interesting to see how the whole "DHEA is protected" aspect of DASCA is interpreted.

[kissdadookie]

will be interesting to see how the whole "DHEA is protected" aspect of DASCA is interpreted.

The whole thing is pretty interesting since the DEA never really tested/exercised their new "tools" (in regards to scheduling new compounds) since DASCA 2014 so if this update goes through, this would be the very first time they have done so.

[syanchuk]

I use to take OEP, those wonderful little purple pills. I see people kept taking DMAA after the ban, missed out on that.

ON DMAA: Everyday I wake up at 730>Make a Great breakfast and prep lunch>Work by 845>Nose to the grind stone till noon> Intense workout and lunch> Post workout shake and break> Grindstone work till 530> Happy hour and party till 845 (or later)>RnR>Bed by midnight

OFF DMAA: Video games, netflix, beer, sleeping, wall staring, lack of any ambition...

I know sups are supposed to be the icing on the cake when your routine is set and it helps get you to the next tier....But DMAA gave me the clarity and mental state to control every aspect of my life...Why did DMAA have such a mental effect on me? Anything else I could take to get that attribute? I got about 4 years of sludge built up I'm looking to get off, but can't get my head out of my own ass...My other option is to go with ********...

[BenBlue]

I use to take OEP, those wonderful little purple pills. I see people kept taking DMAA after the ban, missed out on that.

ON DMAA: Everyday I wake up at 730>Make a Great breakfast and prep lunch>Work by 845>Nose to the grind stone till noon> Intense workout and lunch> Post workout shake and break> Grindstone work till 530> Happy hour and party till 845 (or later)>RnR>Bed by midnight

OFF DMAA: Video games, netflix, beer, sleeping, wall staring, lack of any ambition...

I know sups are supposed to be the icing on the cake when your routine is set and it helps get you to the next tier....But DMAA gave me the clarity and mental state to control every aspect of my life...Why did DMAA have such a mental effect on me? Anything else I could take to get that attribute? I got about 4 years of sludge built up I'm looking to get off, but can't get my head out of my own ass...My other option is to go with ********...

Your "other option" isn't so "other". ******** is a chemically tweaked amphetamine. DMAA is a chemically tweaked amphetamine. ******** is MUCH stronger.

Wouldn't recommend relying on any form of stimulant to get through your days. If you think you have a problem, go see your doc for a diagnoses. If he says you need addy, go nuts. If not, i'd focus on other areas like nutrition, sleep, general rest, and if anything, take to coffee.

[Blainex]

This was posted on another site, feds going in dry on hi-tech

October 10, 2017 00:00
Order on Motion to Exclude Order on Motion to Strike Order on Motion for Summary Judgment
1:04-cv-03294 | Georgia Northern
ORDER granting FTC's 855 Motion to Exclude Testimony of Dr. Gerald Goldhaber; denying as moot Defendants' 858 Motion to Strike Declaration and Testimony of Susan Blalock; denying Defendants' 865 Motion to Strike Testimony and Expert Report of Richard van Breeman; denying Defendants' 866 Motion to Strike/Exclude the testimony, declarations/reports and opinions of Louis J. Aronne; granting FTC's 875 Motion to Exclude Testimony of Linda Gilbert; denying Defendants' 876 Motion for Summary Judgment seeking an Order denying the FTC's Application for an Order of Contempt. The court ORDERS disgorgement of $40,120,950 in compensatory sanctions. Hi-Tech, Wheat, and Smith are jointly and severally liable for $40,000,950. Wright is liable for $120,000. The parties are ORDERED to administer the compensatory sanctions as directed above. In addition, the court ORDERS Hi-Tech, Wheat, and Smith, to the extent it has not been done already, to recall from retail outlets all Fastin, Lipodrene, Benzedrine, and Stimerex-ES with violative product packaging and labels. The FTC is DIRECTED to submit a proposed judgment within twenty (20) days of this order, after giving the defendants the opportunity to review same as to form. Signed by Judge Charles A. Pannell, Jr on 10/10/2017. (dfb)

[kissdadookie]

this was posted on another site, feds going in dry on hi-tech

october 10, 2017 00:00
order on motion to exclude order on motion to strike order on motion for summary judgment
1:04-cv-03294 | georgia northern
order granting ftc's 855 motion to exclude testimony of dr. Gerald goldhaber; denying as moot defendants' 858 motion to strike declaration and testimony of susan blalock; denying defendants' 865 motion to strike testimony and expert report of richard van breeman; denying defendants' 866 motion to strike/exclude the testimony, declarations/reports and opinions of louis j. Aronne; granting ftc's 875 motion to exclude testimony of linda gilbert; denying defendants' 876 motion for summary judgment seeking an order denying the ftc's application for an order of contempt. the court orders disgorgement of $40,120,950 in compensatory sanctions. Hi-tech, wheat, and smith are jointly and severally liable for $40,000,950. Wright is liable for $120,000. the parties are ordered to administer the compensatory sanctions as directed above. In addition, the court orders hi-tech, wheat, and smith, to the extent it has not been done already, to recall from retail outlets all fastin, lipodrene, benzedrine, and stimerex-es with violative product packaging and labels. The ftc is directed to submit a proposed judgment within twenty (20) days of this order, after giving the defendants the opportunity to review same as to form. Signed by judge charles a. Pannell, jr on 10/10/2017. (dfb)

ouch.

[Big_Spaz]

I just read that as well on another site ....

I would say this ... from knowing what I know (about Hi-Tech/J. Wheat) he will fight this until death. So no matter what they release (in the press) a fight will ensue. It's far from over.






-Spaz