Second week, always hungry

[marioana]

My husband started keto last Monday, coming from a low carb high protein diet ( 40% p, 30% c, 30 % f). He is 6'3'', 250 lb, and he eats 2300 calories per day, 25 grams of carbs or less, 140 protein and 160 fat (I don't remember exact grams of fat and protein, but we use myfitnesspal and I set it to 5% carbs, 30 % protein and 65% fat.). Anyway he says he is always hungry, even after finishing a meal. Is this normal? Most people say that they feel full on a keto diet...

[KBDelight]

My husband started keto last Monday, coming from a low carb high protein diet ( 40% p, 30% c, 30 % f). He is 6'3'', 250 lb, and he eats 2300 calories per day, 25 grams of carbs or less, 140 protein and 160 fat (I don't remember exact grams of fat and protein, but we use myfitnesspal and I set it to 5% carbs, 30 % protein and 65% fat.). Anyway he says he is always hungry, even after finishing a meal. Is this normal? Most people say that they feel full on a keto diet...

I guess it depends on what those meals are? 2300 cals may be a bit low. At 250lbs - there's a good chance thats close to his baseline and then any movement uses more calories. As he adapts to a keto diet and trains his body to use fat as fuel, you may want to bump up the total kcals. I'm 5'10, started my diet at 197 and I'm supposed to eat between 2800 and 3200 kcals a day but usually am in the 2500-2800 range and never have hunger issues. If anything - I struggle some days to hit the 200+g of fat a day. I'm at a 70-75/20-25/5 ratio.

[JonBana]

if hes always hungry than hes not in ketosis and still burning sugar ,

up the fats to 200G a day drop the protein to 100g start with that , as for fats use health fats grass fed butter coconut oil avocados olive oil etc..

eat veggies with fiver to be full as well ,

right now im 215 pounds 10% BF I eat once a day or once every three days 1500-1800 calories not a problem

[marioana]

His meals are something like this:
For breakfast 4 eggs, some smoked salmon or prosciutto, some string cheese or a slice of keto bread with cream cheese.
For lunch a piece of meat or fish, some nuts ( macadamia or peanuts) and some cauliflower.
For dinner a big lettuce salad with green onion and olive oil, and some sausage or a burger with some bacon and cheese.
We kept the calories at 2300 because he couldn't go to the gym for the past few weeks because of an knee injury. Probably we will have to increase them when he starts going to the gym again...

[Clint18Robin]

That calorie intake seems very low to me. I'm 5'9 155 and eat ~2700 cals a day.

[Mrpb]

His meals are something like this:
For breakfast 4 eggs, some smoked salmon or prosciutto, some string cheese or a slice of keto bread with cream cheese.
For lunch a piece of meat or fish, some nuts ( macadamia or peanuts) and some cauliflower.
For dinner a big lettuce salad with green onion and olive oil, and some sausage or a burger with some bacon and cheese.
We kept the calories at 2300 because he couldn't go to the gym for the past few weeks because of an knee injury. Probably we will have to increase them when he starts going to the gym again...

25 grams of carbs or less, 140 protein and 160 fat should be fine for keto.

Better not use percentages. 30% protein can come out too high.

That calorie intake seems very low to me. I'm 5'9 155 and eat ~2700 cals a day.

2300 calories is fine for someone trying to lose weight on keto.

[marioana]

Back again. So he passed the 6 week mark this Sunday and he hasn't lost any weight since 3 weeks ago. He started keto at 247, he is now at 242. I looked at his calories and macros for the last week and it looks like this:

Today - 2342 calories, 47 grams of carbs, 22 grams of fiber, 157 gr fat, 184 gr protein
yesterday- 2389 calories, 43 grams of carbs, 18 grams of fiber, 163 gr fat, 193 gr protein
Monday- 2385 calories, 48 grams of carbs, 24 grams of fiber, 160 gr fat, 196 gr protein
Sunday- 2937 calories, 46 grams of carbs, 26 grams of fiber, 219 gr fat, 201 gr protein
Saturday- 2308 calories, 58 grams of carbs, 35 grams of fiber, 164 gr fat, 161 gr protein
Friday- 2435 calories, 44 grams of carbs, 18 grams of fiber, 169 gr fat, 192 gr protein
Thursday- 2341 calories, 42 grams of carbs, 21 grams of fiber, 158 gr fat, 183 gr protein

He went to the gym twice last week, his knees are still bothering him...

Possible problems I can see:
1.Too much protein, too low fat?
2. Too many carbs?
3. Calories too low/high? He is trying to stay at 2300-2400 for about 4 days and then do a refeed (only calories go up, not the carbs) at 2900 on the fifth day.

[marioana]

I forgot to mention, he was diagnosed with low T and low LH, did a MRI and his pituitary gland is fine, no tumors (most likely cause for low LH). He started keto at the recommendation of the endocrinologist.

[rusrious]

hummmm, Does he like squash? Might be potassium deficiency. Try hard to get as much potassium as he can.

also, I dont think that much fat is needed. See, he has fat to use, so there really isnt a need for all the fat. I personally think, the fat is just a primer. Like early morning, your body adapts to the first thing it eats after a fasting period. feed it fat, it will want fat for energy after a few days. But when the body has an over abundance of it, I personally think its counterproductive to be slamming down more fat. I get flamed for saying it, but I dont really care, lol..

If he is low on energy, eat fat. If he is hungry, eat fat. But dont force the body to TAKE in fat that isnt needed.

Lower the fat intake, and I can almost bet you, he will see more fat come off.

Heck, somedays I get very little fat. But always make sure I get my Fat first thing I eat in the morning, or whenever, just as long as its the first meal after a fast period.

I think he is eating to much. and, the whole, cals in cals out is BS. Eat when he is hungry, forcing down all the calories and fats is detrimental to ANY diet. Your body, not your stomach, will tell you, more food is needed.

If you have a can, and its full of fat to the brim, what happens if you pour more into the can?

Thyroid OK? Id get that checked, but seeing you got the glands checked, Id assume the thyroid was checked also.

Evidently, following Keto "guidelines" isnt working, so the next thing would be to reduce fats. and, it wont hurt to use liquid fat, such as coconut oil and macadamia oil and olive oil. He needs to make the stomach shrink inside.
When its used to packin in all the food, it stretches. and when its empty, is when the hunger pains are there, because there is a gap that needs filled in. Once it shrinks down, the gap will reduce, and he will be less hungry. Think of it like natural lap-band or whatever the heck the superstar do.

Going to be hungry, its the process, it sucks, but if you fight thru, it will get better. As with any addiction, it takes time.

OK? So, reduce the fat intake by 25% for a week, and report back with the results. Even if the calories drop, dont pay attention to that. If he falls over, faints, or sleeps alot, get his thyroid checked. Heck, even do a 3 day fast, it wont hurt anything, but reset his body, and even build some new stemcells.

WATER WATER WATER,

Great luck to you both, and dont get discouraged, as I think he might be at this point, I would be, thats for sure. He should be losing fat, even with little workout effort.
and the refeed is overrated. If he is not hammering weights and working out longer then an hour a day, the refeed is not necessary. NO BREAD, NO PASTA, NO MILK.

[marioana]

He is not a fan of squash, but he started taking potassium supplements because he used to get cramps a few weeks ago and now he is better.
He eats 3 times a day, and he is hungry before each meal. He even woke up a few times in the morning because he was hungry.
His thyroid is ok, and all other hormones. The only things that were off was Testosterone, LH and bun/creatinine, but the last one might have been because of all the meat he was eating at the time.
His carbs are from spinach/salad/bok choy, avocado, cheese (like provolone or parmesan), cream, raw cauliflower, some onion/garlic and a serving of nuts per day. As you can see he is not a big veggie fan...
He is doing the refeed because at one point we had a bodybugg(it was discontinued a few years ago), and he noticed that if he eats at a deficit after 3 or 4 days his burned calories drop drastically. We were thinking his leptin is going down and once he started doing the refeeds the burned calories registered by the bodybugg remained constant.

[rusrious]

hmmmm, IDk what to tell ya marioana, things look good as far as food and such. Im sure he isnt eating Bread and things like that. No diet pop or anything like to, id imagine he isnt drinking.

Keto might not be for him. Everyone is different, as we all know.

Id try reducing the fat like I said above. Give it a week or so. and fill up on water and lemon jiuce.

Apple cider vinegar?

Just doenst make any sense not losing any fat at this point, being pretty much on point with the Keto strictness.

Even not working out, he should be losing fat/weight. No whey drinks? Hope not, lol.. bad on keto.

Best of luck to you both, just tryin to help ya out..

[marioana]

No diet drinks,no whey drinks (the protein that he gets comes from meat, no protein powder), he used to use MIO for his water, but since he started keto not even that. The only sweetener he uses is liquid glycerite stevia from now foods, and that is a little bit with his coffee every now and then. He only drinks whiskey (no beer or wine) and that is one glass every couple of weeks when we go out with friends. It's really frustrating because he is so strict and nothing, you would think he was cheating all the time. We know low T can reduce metabolism, but we were hoping keto might help with that...
He doesn't start his day with only fat although, he eats boiled eggs in the morning with ham or smoked salmon and some string cheese. I'll talk to him maybe to start with a decaf coffee (organic) with some fat in it, and postpone the actual breakfast by an hour or so. He did mention he would like to fast (about 10 years ago, when he came to US, he lost a lot of weight by eating once a day, and then it was half a portion of fried rice as money were very scarce) so maybe he should try it for a few days and see how he feels...
Thanks a lot for the ideas, we will try to make some changes, hopefully they will work.

[rusrious]

absolutely, No problem.

Its funny, because I was sitting here and thinkin, "I wonder if this dude is hiding snacks",lol..

How is the knee? OK?

For one week, have him try this.

Wake up, coconut oil in coffee, stevia is ok, I use it everyday. Hate coffee without it, but need coffee,lol.. Forget that bulletproof coffee crap. Coconut oil is awesome fat for morning, for me anyway. I never run out of energy,lol, plus, i love coconut.

Sink squats, by holding onto the sink counter, which gives hold leverage, and do simple squats. 150 a day, SLOW, Half down, hold, back up. works most lower body.

Sink pushoffs, when done with squats, hit the pushoffs. 30-40 of them per set. SLOWWWWWW.. The key to this, is squeezing the last bit of the fasting benefit before eating. my 4yr old daughter does them with me, lol.. But she does real pushups on the floor. I have realllly bad wrists, so pushups on the floor makes it feel like they will break. SLOOWWWWW, face up, chest forward. Works whole upper body,

Sure, some might snivel at this routine, but if done correctly, it is great intensity right out of bed. I dont do 150 all at once, do a set every 2 hours. BUT the sets MUST last 45 seconds or longer.

This isnt about burning calories or anything like that, its about MOBILIZING BLOOD and the Fat in the body, as soon as the body wakes up. These are your biggest fat burning machines the body has, so get them fired up early and often.

Might put strain on the knees, but gets better the lighter he gets.

DO NOT REFEED. Some people take a month to adapt to fat. Its very possible he just isnt adapted yet, which i doubt, but, never know.

The refeed without adaptation first, is the downfall of many Keto'ers.

If he moves a house full of stuff, drink the Apple Cider Vinegar, wait 20 minutes, then eat a pizza, thin crust, AHHHHHHHHHHH, I love Pizza. The ACV stops the absorption of starch in the body, and will also help with joints. ( I love this stuff ) and lactic acid buildup.

Not much to lose at this point, see what happens. Just might get things rolling for him.

[rusrious]

Sorry, just want to throw some more things in here.

Brussel sprouts, fried in butter, Zinc supplement, NO MORE THEN 50mgs a day via supplementation.

and sorry about this one, but reduce meals. Dont eat past 6pm, or whatever works, but give a 16 hour closed window for food. Have a meal after the 16 hours, then dinner.

so, dinner, then nothing for 16 hours, ( except coconut oil in morning) then dinner, repeat.

Something that puts him in a pickle, is high fat diets kinda hinder T levels, so its important to work the legs as much as possible, and get in the sunlight as much as he can.

ok, im done now, lol, have a great night.