Bulking and the Red Meat Controversy

[ronald.ricciarelli]

Hey all, first post here. Just competed in my second natural show two weeks ago and I've begun bulking slowly. My question is about red meat (namely ground beef). I can't just do chicken every meal all day. I have been eating about 7-8oz of ground beef each day, never really more than that. I feel great, but know a lot of chatter goes around about how awful red meat is for you. If I keep it to just the one meal a day of ground beef and consume probiotic digestion enzymes and Apple Cider Vinegar daily as well, I should be fine to continue incorporating one beef meal each day in my bulk, right? Obviously I'm keeping my carb intake higher, as that's the key to bulking... but just need to know if beef is OK daily in reasonable quantities!

I appreciate your thoughts!

[MmmWatermelon]

Red meat is no bueno?! Well I'm fuked.

But srs, why do you think red meat "awful" for you? The fat content?

[ironwill2008]

Hey all, first post here. Just competed in my second natural show two weeks ago and I've begun bulking slowly. My question is about red meat (namely ground beef). I can't just do chicken every meal all day. I have been eating about 7-8oz of ground beef each day, never really more than that. I feel great, but know a lot of chatter goes around about how awful red meat is for you. If I keep it to just the one meal a day of ground beef and consume probiotic digestion enzymes and Apple Cider Vinegar daily as well, I should be fine to continue incorporating one beef meal each day in my bulk, right? Obviously I'm keeping my carb intake higher, as that's the key to bulking... but just need to know if beef is OK daily in reasonable quantities!

I appreciate your thoughts!

Most of the 'meat is bad for you' rhetoric comes from PETA-ites and other assorted nutjob extremists with some oddball agenda. There are some epidemiological studies floating around that claim what you're concerned with, but such studies don't provide specific evidence.


If your goal is to build a lean, muscular, strong physique, you'd do well to take the $$$ you're spending on digestive enzymes and vinegar and spend it on steak instead.

[Mrpb]

For processed meat it's pretty certain that they raise the risk for certain cancers, for unprocessed red meat it's a more nuanced story. However, eating a large amount every day is pushing it. If you want to continue that, eating a lot of vegetables and fruit may reduce the risk.

Here's a good overview: https://examine.com/nutrition/scient...--or-did-they/

There are a lot of other options besides chicken and beef, for example fish, dairy and plant proteins. Salmon, sardines, tuna, Alaska pollock, yogurt, milk, black beans, green peas etc.

[Ripper908]

I like to have red meat once or twice a day

just eat lots of green veggies or high sources of fiber and you shouldnt need to worry

[BookMonkey]

Depends on your genetic background and age (and sometimes gender), but like above said, most of the "red meat is bad" comes from extremists. HOWEVER, there is medical evidence that as certain people get older, their ability to digest red meat properly becomes an issue. Some individuals reach the point where they can't handle red meat without having some sort of digestive distress. However, if your bloodwork checks out and you don't have any issues digestive-wise, then there is no reason to limit yourself. However, out of rational nutrition advice, I'd still recommend changing up your protein consumption to something more diverse. Sticking to one main source is not the best way to go about things.

There is also the issue of fat content in the different types of ground beef (vs lean white meat), but I figure you are already keeping track of that in some manner.

[Connor1226]

For processed meat it's pretty certain that they raise the risk for certain cancers, for unprocessed red meat it's a more nuanced story. However, eating a large amount every day is pushing it. If you want to continue that, eating a lot of vegetables and fruit may reduce the risk.

Here's a good overview: https://examine.com/nutrition/scient...--or-did-they/

There are a lot of other options besides chicken and beef, for example fish and plant proteins. Salmon, sardines, tuna, Alaska pollock, black beans, green peas etc.

This. Studies that look at unprocessed red meat find no real health risk.

It's processed meats containing nitrates and nitrites that carry the increased cancer risk.

[Mrpb]

This. Studies that look at unprocessed red meat find no real health risk.

To be clear, that's not what I said, nor do I consider it accurate. It's more nuanced. There's still a risk and a pretty good case to moderate red meat consumption, in my opinion.

[chamelious]

There's still a risk and a pretty good case to moderate red meat consumption, in my opinion.

The same with literally anything though surely, i guess the more pertinent question is how much is too much?

[Mrpb]

The same with literally anything though surely, i guess the more pertinent question is how much is too much?

Many foods aren't linked to an increased risk of cancer. The evidence on red meat is weaker than with processed meat though. How much? I'm not exactly sure but I don't think 250 gram per week would be associated with a significant increase in risk, assuming one eats plenty of vegetables and fruit.

[Cronos1247]

I eat 8oz of cooked red meat every single day...either filet, sirloin or ground beef.

[desslok]

I'd be more worried about bulking than red meat consumption personally. If you want to live longer(albeit small and weak), get off this site and practice caloric restriction.

[Mrpb]

Bulking on a small surplus while staying under 15% shouldn't cause any health issues as far as I'm aware.

Caloric restriction will have health benefits in overweight sedentary population, not in lean active population.

[desslok]

Bulking on a small surplus while staying under 15% shouldn't cause any health issues as far as I'm aware.

Caloric restriction will have health benefits in overweight sedentary population, not in lean active population.

Apparently everyone can interpret all of the research differently, but the OP can always read all the research out there and make an informed choice based on his own interpretations.

[Mrpb]

Apparently everyone can interpret all of the research differently, but the OP can always read all the research out there and make an informed choice based on his own interpretations.

Yeah that's always a good plan. Have you seen any research showing that calorie restriction leads to meaningful health benefits in lean, exercising humans? I haven't found anything.

I've looked at the two popular CR studies in monkeys. One showed no benefits, the other showed benefits compared to a control group that was on an ad libitum high sugar diet.

Monkeys in captivity dirty bulking on high sugar, that's one way to make calorie restriction look good.

[Strawng]

Yeah that's always a good plan. Have you seen any research showing that calorie restriction leads to meaningful health benefits in lean, exercising humans? I haven't found anything.

I've looked at the two popular CR studies in monkeys. One showed no benefits, the other showed benefits compared to a control group that was on an ad libitum high sugar diet.

Monkeys in captivity dirty bulking on high sugar, that's one way to make calorie restriction look good.

"Meanwhile, there is a dearth of evidence that caloric restriction slows ageing in humans. Observational studies have found that people of average weight tend to live longest". http://www.nature.com/news/calorie-r...ng-run-1.11297
Even in monkeys, CR is not proven to be superior.

[dashdash89]

Regarding processed meats:

Twenty-two experts from 10 countries reviewed more than 800 studies to reach their conclusions. They found that eating 50 grams of processed meat every day increased the risk of colorectal cancer by 18%. That’s the equivalent of about 4 strips of bacon or 1 hot dog. For red meat, there was evidence of increased risk of colorectal, pancreatic, and prostate cancer.

Overall, the lifetime risk of someone developing colon cancer is 5%. To put the numbers into perspective, the increased risk from eating the amount of processed meat in the study would raise average lifetime risk to almost 6%.

Source: https://www.cancer.org/latest-news/w...es-cancer.html

That may seem small to some people. I don't care for most processed meats (hotdogs, pastrami, etc), so it's easy for me to go for other options when available

[BuildKing]

I wouldn't worry much about red meat itself, in moderate quantities.
Id try to stay away from processed meats as much as possible tho, only eat some here and there.

[blue9steel]

It's processed meats containing nitrates and nitrites that carry the increased cancer risk.

That's a reasonable theory and my best guess as well but I'm not sure we have enough evidence to be positive that nitrates are the problem. Still, it does appear pretty likely that it's something added to the processed meats rather than the food itself.

[desslok]

That's a reasonable theory and my best guess as well but I'm not sure we have enough evidence to be positive that nitrates are the problem. Still, it does appear pretty likely that it's something added to the processed meats rather than the food itself.

In many cases its actually the cooking(heat) process that creates acrylimides, COPs, etc that are carcinogenic. Some of that can be minimized with the uses of certain spices.

[CommitmentRulz]

You can find a kook who spouts garbage about a variety of topics. It looks like you've been listening to one concerning red meat... ;-)

[ErikTheElectric]

There have been proven facts about red meat being toxic to one's health in the long run, however I don't feel that one meal a day of red meat is going to be that detrimental to you OP.