No shoulder front raises needed ?

[Shadowman82]

I read that if you do a sufficient amount of bench pressing that you don't really need to do front shoulder raises during your shoulder workout as those muscles get worked plenty during your bench presses . Is that true ?

[wowter]

I read that if you do a sufficient amount of bench pressing that you don't really need to do front shoulder raises during your shoulder workout as those muscles get worked plenty during your bench presses . Is that true ?

Yes I'd say pretty much noone needs direct front delt iso's. They get worked during all pressing not just bench press.

[koweanguy]

I read that if you do a sufficient amount of bench pressing that you don't really need to do front shoulder raises during your shoulder workout as those muscles get worked plenty during your bench presses . Is that true ?

I still like to incorporated a bit of front raises here and there
Try experimenting yourself and see what results you prefer

[TheShadowMan]

Cool name. For me it comes down to a few different concerns. What my routine calls for, what I notice about my body, and whether or not i'm too injured or not to work the part of the body a specific exercise works. In my current routine you have to use front raises in a superset with dumbbell shoulder presses, so in that instance I gotta use them. Normally I don't feel the need to isolate the anterior head as much as the lateral, or especially posterior - so I don't use front raises too often when i'm off a program.

[JohnSmeton]

I think front raises are useful, and work the lateral deltoids. When I do my shoulders many times Ive done front and side delts and did rear delts on back day. Last shoulder workout I did side and rear delts only because doing front would take too long and of course front get hit on chest day, esp incline presses.

[AndroMuscle]

I still do military presses for overall shoulder strength.
However bench pressing really works the front deltoide and its a small muscle so it could be over kill.
It could also cause an injury if you work it too much.

[Jackal005]

My attitude has always been that I have never seen anyone with underdeveloped anterior delts, so front raises can't be that important.

However, they have just been added to my programme, so I will be doing them for the next 8 weeks at least.

[grubman]

If you are looking for opinions...front delt raises are a pointless waste of energy. A tiny muscle with a lot of potential for MAJOR injury that already (most likely) gets a ton of work from other heavy compound moves.

Unless you are advanced (and/or enhanced) it's more likely than not that direct work has more potential to hurt than help...but that leads me to ask why you are doing superset, another "advanced" technique generally not needed unless you are at an experienced intermediate (at least) plateau?

Guys without an avatar tend to imply "newbie" or a low level of development...correct me if I'm wrong (with a pic). Was this "routine" out of a magazine?

Better to focus this energy on your compound pressing moves, or the lateral or rear delts (which are most likely underdeveloped...hard to know without a pic).

MHO

[euro7muscle]

Never do direct isolations for front delts

[Jasonk282]

If you are looking for opinions...front delt raises are a pointless waste of energy. A tiny muscle with a lot of potential for MAJOR injury that already (most likely) gets a ton of work from other heavy compound moves.

Unless you are advanced (and/or enhanced) it's more likely than not that direct work has more potential to hurt than help...but that leads me to ask why you are doing superset, another "advanced" technique generally not needed unless you are at an experienced intermediate (at least) plateau?

Guys without an avatar tend to imply "newbie" or a low level of development...correct me if I'm wrong (with a pic). Was this "routine" out of a magazine?

Better to focus this energy on your compound pressing moves, or the lateral or rear delts (which are most likely underdeveloped...hard to know without a pic).

MHO

This.

If you're already benching and pressing your front delts are definitly getting worked over.

[BG5150]

So no biceps curls, or triceps work b/c they get worked with rows/chins and bench?

[Jasonk282]

So no biceps curls, or triceps work b/c they get worked with rows/chins and bench?

Both which are bigger than the front delt, so they can handle more volume.

[sooby]

So no biceps curls, or triceps work b/c they get worked with rows/chins and bench?

I think you could make a slight argument for not isolating the triceps if you do enough pressing, then again, you aren't nearly as likely to tear a tricep as you would be to kill your shoulder and it can handle more volume.

However though I don't think the biceps get worked out nearly as much with rows/chins so it would be more beneficial to use bicep isolations if you really wanted to focus on your biceps in addition to the heavy pulling movements.

just my opinion

[TJP33]

for the newer lifter - beginner/intermediate, I side with the no need. because of the large amount of indirect stimuli the muscle receives and the size or lack there of, I think your absolutely fine ignoring iso's for front delt.. But I would monitor as a change may be needed in the future.

now the advanced trainee, well he's not reading this cause they know outside the basic principals there are no golden rules that work for everyone. Some may no longer get the same response and may need to add it in. I consider my delts pretty crappy part of which has been caused by listening to these rules for too long and not by simply what is being shown in the mirror- same with arms, which also have similar "rules"- overvaluing indirect stimuli and not providing the direct stimuli required. That said total volume limitations, energy limitations, and proper volume allocation to allow balance still have to be taken into account.

[Jasonk282]

for the newer lifter - beginner/intermediate, I side with the no need. because of the large amount of indirect stimuli the muscle receives and the size or lack there of, I think your absolutely fine ignoring iso's for front delt.. But I would monitor as a change may be needed in the future.

now the advanced trainee, well he's not reading this cause they know outside the basic principals there are no golden rules that work for everyone. Some may no longer get the same response and may need to add it in. I consider my delts pretty crappy part of which has been caused by listening to these rules for too long and not by simply what is being shown in the mirror- same with arms, which also have similar "rules"- overvaluing indirect stimuli and not providing the direct stimuli required. That said total volume limitations, energy limitations, and proper volume allocation to allow balance still have to be taken into account.

Spot on.

I will say though the majority on the members on these forums are beginner/intermediate lifters...siding more so with advanced beginner

[grubman]

the majority on the members on these forums are beginner/intermediate lifters...

...trying to train like advanced lifters.

Biggest mistake a beginner/intermediate can make. IMHO

[Jasonk282]

...trying to train like advanced lifters.

Biggest mistake a beginner/intermediate can make. IMHO

Yup.

On spread mate

[drkelly74]

I throw them in there every now and then, but not every 'shoulder' day. I have narrow shoulders, or at least I think they are narrow, so I like to hit shoulders hard from many different angles with various movements. When I do front raises, I like to alternate between dumbells and cables. Dumbells are obvious, but for cables, I get the double rope, stand with my back to the machine with the cable coming up between my legs. Most shoulder days though are just OHP (machine, barbell, or dumbells), side raises (dumbbell or cable), and rear delts bent over with torso parallel with floor (dumbells or cable, or machine)

[Shadowman82]

To answer as question above I have been doing front raises but the routine I'm following now did suggest that they are not needed . I follow Michael Matthews routine now actually .

[MyEgoProblem]

I saw somewhere the average gym rat already has anterior delts 5x the normal but only 1.5x bigger rear delts than gen pop. (neanderthal look, rolled shoulders, **** upper back, plans for surgery..)

Really think we need to off balance this anymore than we already do? Bench, press, Incline, flys, pushups...

Want to do more shoulder work? Hit the POSTERIOR delts.. Facepulls, rear flys, scarecrows..

Plus all the good stuff posted already..

[Knights16]

Excellent and timely thread for me. I'm a beginner/intermediate and I just incorporated front raises into my routine. After reading the advice above, I think I'll drop them and look for something else on "push day".

Thanks.

[sooby]

I saw somewhere the average gym rat already has anterior delts 5x the normal but only 1.5x bigger rear delts than gen pop. (neanderthal look, rolled shoulders, **** upper back, plans for surgery..)

Really think we need to off balance this anymore than we already do? Bench, press, Incline, flys, pushups...

Want to do more shoulder work? Hit the POSTERIOR delts.. Facepulls, rear flys, scarecrows..

Plus all the good stuff posted already..

I think I read that too, forgot where, lol. but agreed though, rear delts are very rarely worked, or not as much as they should be.

[Jasonk282]

I think I read that too, forgot where, lol. but agreed though, rear delts are very rarely worked, or not as much as they should be.

Gotta have a big bench press to impress the bros at girls at the gym lol.

The majority of lifters could be doing 2:1 pull push ratio. No one ever complains about having a big back..