Extreme Vetting

[paolo59]

I understand your point, but some of those that are being detained or even turned away where those who put themselves at risk being interpreters for our military forces in a war zone, and IMO more deserving if not more so than those Americans who have never left our borders.

There definitely should be waivers provided in such circumstances. And damn quick!

[crupiea]

Imagine you are working at the border.

Some total stranger comes up to you and has no paperwork, looks like trouble, is a young military age man. he wants to enter the country and you can tell him yes or no, its all up to you.

You live in the town where he is coming in as well so if you say yes, he could very well move in right next to your family and kids.

you have no idea what this guy is up to. The only thing you know is what he tells you and that he is from a country rife with terrorists and god knows what. Why do you suppose he left? is it a trick? do you have questions about him? he has no documents, just himself and what he tells you.

Do you just let him in because we are a country of immigrants? or do you turn his hairy bearded ass around and say no?

I know what I would do, I would send him back to his craphole country and sleep better because of it.

keep in mind that we used to process people through ellis island. If you didnt meet certain criteria or have the right paperwork, they sent you away.

[wesleysh21]

The fact that literally everything about our anti-terrorism policy for the last 15 years has left Saudi Arabia untouched is pretty good evidence that it's not about countering terrorism.

The Muslim registry included Saudi Arabia

[wesleysh21]

I understand your point, but some of those that are being detained or even turned away where those who put themselves at risk being interpreters for our military forces in a war zone, and IMO more deserving if not more so than those Americans who have never left our borders.

Where are all of these people being detained at? Right now I'm just hearing JFK. If the list doesn't expand quickly, I'm going to wonder if it's a political stunt or just one rogue airport not using common sense.

[Old-Time-Lifter]

The list of countries does have one thing in common; they are all countries we bombed. It's almost like us bombing countries promotes terrorism and destabilizes regions.

Or did we bomb them because the terrorists were there... just saying.

[7Seconds]

Or did we bomb them because the terrorists were there... just saying.

I don't have the answer. Doing nothing is probably not the right choice. But direct military action has been the choice for the past 2+ decades, and we're no closer to solving the problem. At some point we have to acknowledge that if choice A isn't working, maybe its time to try choice B. Terrorist organizations thrive in areas with little structure, massive poverty and a lack of education. Dropping bombs does nothing but make those problems worse.

[LisaSkinnoble]

[dsm246]

Where are all of these people being detained at? Right now I'm just hearing JFK. If the list doesn't expand quickly, I'm going to wonder if it's a political stunt or just one rogue airport not using common sense.

They are reporting at least 7 being detained at LAX and another 3 at SFO here on the west coast. All have either valid visas or green cards.

Also 2 Christian Syrian families were detained at PHL and then returned to Qatar early this morning. Another 5 are still being detained in PHL.

[ElrondHubbard]

A federal judge has issued a stay blocking the order.

http://www.nydailynews.com/news/nati...icle-1.2958483

[lotusdeva]

This is being shared by the immigration firm among Russian community right now (I won't post all of it just last points). Also, I used FB translate, so some things probably didn't get translated correctly. This is crazy:



In the light of the recently announced changes in immigration policy, we have the following recommendations that can help you or any of your loved ones, if you are not U.S. citizens.

1. Make sure that at least two people you trust, know your name, date of birth, country of origin, and immigration number (" Alien number " or " A-number ", if you have, and may Provide the contact information of the immigration lawyer in case you get stopped.

....

10. If you have kids, make sure that they have the name and contact information of the person that you trust, in case you get arrested. It is recommended that this person has all your information.

11. If you don't have a driver's license, do not get behind the wheel.

12. If you are in the car, which is stopped, only the driver must provide driver's license. Any passenger should only give your name and don't have to answer any other questions. Ask if you can go, if yes, just leave.

13. If you are stopped by police on the street, don't answer any questions except for the name. Tell them that you have the right not to answer and ask if you were free to leave.

14. If you're under arrest, say again, it is clear that you will not be answering any questions without a lawyer present. Don't answer any questions except for your name. Call a man who you trust and ask him to hire you a lawyer.

15. If someone comes to your home and says, "open up, police", don't open the door. Ask them, if they have a warrant, and ask them to put it under the door. Take a picture of the warrant and send it to a lawyer or a man who you trust. If a warrant not signed by a judge and does not have your name and address on it, you don't have to open the door. Don't answer any questions. Get a warrant.

This applies to green card holders as well

[Fishman15]

Where are all of these people being detained at?

CNN's green room?

[Old-Time-Lifter]

According to what I've read the order actually contains no mention of religion at all...

[lotusdeva]

CNN's green room?

INS is not even letting these people to contact lawyers and wouldn't release their names. Being detained by INS is not fun, you don't get the same rights as everyone else.

[so-tex]

This is being shared by the immigration firm among Russian community right now (I won't post all of it just last points). Also, I used FB translate, so some things probably didn't get translated correctly. This is crazy:



In the light of the recently announced changes in immigration policy, we have the following recommendations that can help you or any of your loved ones, if you are not U.S. citizens.

1. Make sure that at least two people you trust, know your name, date of birth, country of origin, and immigration number (" Alien number " or " A-number ", if you have, and may Provide the contact information of the immigration lawyer in case you get stopped.

....

10. If you have kids, make sure that they have the name and contact information of the person that you trust, in case you get arrested. It is recommended that this person has all your information.

11. If you don't have a driver's license, do not get behind the wheel.

12. If you are in the car, which is stopped, only the driver must provide driver's license. Any passenger should only give your name and don't have to answer any other questions. Ask if you can go, if yes, just leave.

13. If you are stopped by police on the street, don't answer any questions except for the name. Tell them that you have the right not to answer and ask if you were free to leave.

14. If you're under arrest, say again, it is clear that you will not be answering any questions without a lawyer present. Don't answer any questions except for your name. Call a man who you trust and ask him to hire you a lawyer.

15. If someone comes to your home and says, "open up, police", don't open the door. Ask them, if they have a warrant, and ask them to put it under the door. Take a picture of the warrant and send it to a lawyer or a man who you trust. If a warrant not signed by a judge and does not have your name and address on it, you don't have to open the door. Don't answer any questions. Get a warrant.

This applies to green card holders as well

Drama much? The executive order was for 7 Muslim countries, not the world.
Funny, Jimmy Carter put a ban on Muslims entering our country during the Iranian hostage crisis and nobody batted an eye.
The media is dumbing this country down.

[lotusdeva]

Drama much? The executive order was for 7 Muslim countries, not the world.
Funny, Jimmy Carter put a ban on Muslims entering our country during the Iranian hostage crisis and nobody batted an eye.
The media is dumbing this country down.

History much?

Out of 15 former USSR Republic 6 had Muslim majority. This is not drama, this is reality for non-citizens and possible even citizens that are coming back from banned countries. I don't think that a reputable immigration firm is doing this for the drama. You were born in US, so can't relate to this.

Jimmy Carter put ban on Iran because of the hostage situation, not on 7 countries, which did not even include the country that produced the most terrorists so far (Saudi Arabia)

[so-tex]

History much?

Out of 15 former USSR Republic 6 had Muslim majority. This is not drama, this is reality for non-citizens and possible even citizens that are coming back from banned countries. I don't think that a reputable immigration firm is doing this for the drama. You were born in US, so can't relate to this.

Jimmy Carter put ban on Iran because of the hostage situation, not on 7 countries, which did not even include the country that produced the most terrorists so far (Saudi Arabia)

Are you here legally? If so, you have no worries.

[lotusdeva]

Are you here legally? If so, you have no worries.

yes, I am a citizen, but I cannot imagine what it is like to not being able to come back. how can they detain green card holders?

[so-tex]

yes, I am a citizen, but I cannot imagine what it is like to not being able to come back. how can they detain green card holders?

Green card holders are detained all the time for various reasons. This is nothing new.
http://vpatellaw.com/permanent-resid...on-at-airport/

[lotusdeva]

Green card holders are detained all the time for various reasons. This is nothing new.
http://vpatellaw.com/permanent-resid...on-at-airport/

I only know of one case (and I am in the immigrant community) where green card holder was detained. He was coming back from India right after 9/11 and was detained for a month in INS jail for no reason. 15k later and a good lawyer he was let go. He has gotten a citizenship since that time, but still has not traveled anywhere outside of US, as he is scared. Also, those with DUAL citizenships are also affected by this EO.

One of a very reputable immigration lawyers told me once - immigration law is a wild-wild west, anything can happen.

[paolo59]

From what I have heard on the news for the past 12 hours, you would think there were thousands upon thousands detained, handcuffed, stripped searched, thrown to the dogs, and forced to sit across the table from Nancy Pelosi...with a stale, luke warm cup of coffee on the table in front of them...and no freakin' cigarettes!

I am truly sorry for inconvenience. I am truly sorry for much more than that! I am not sorry for a sovereign nation taking steps to secure its own borders and the influx of immigrants/refugees...from anywhere, under any circumstances!

[PiperBill]

The list of countries does have one thing in common; they are all countries we bombed. It's almost like us bombing countries promotes terrorism and destabilizes regions.

Hmmm interesting angle. You might be onto something there :-)

[Corbi]

In todays world its hard to trust anyone with the attacks that are happening around the world. Who wants to be the person who admitted someone into the country who turns out to be one of these terrorists and they shoot up a night club or bomb a cafe in your city? Yes the world needs compassion for people attempting to flee these oppressive regimes but we also need a way to feret out the good from the bad and until such time as a system exists I would lean towards the side of caution.

Drama much? The executive order was for 7 Muslim countries, not the world.
Funny, Jimmy Carter put a ban on Muslims entering our country during the Iranian hostage crisis and nobody batted an eye.
The media is dumbing this country down.

This^^^ How many countries are on the planet now, 180 something?" Gee we block those from 7 which means 170+ countries citizens can come here and you get some who act as if we are marching them into Auschwitz.

[so-tex]

We're supposed to save the world? The media has dumbed down Murica...
https://youtu.be/LPjzfGChGlE

[Fishman15]

In todays world its hard to trust anyone with the attacks that are happening around the world. Who wants to be the person who admitted someone into the country who turns out to be one of these terrorists and they shoot up a night club or bomb a cafe in your city? Yes the world needs compassion for people attempting to flee these oppressive regimes but we also need a way to feret out the good from the bad and until such time as a system exists I would lean towards the side of caution.



This^^^ How many countries are on the planet now, 180 something?" Gee we block those from 7 which means 170+ countries citizens can come here and you get some who act as if we are marching them into Auschwitz.

Yea, I heard this morning from Rinse Prius that they were questioning 109 people out of 325,000 people who came to the US from foreign countries. Many of them were already let go and by the end of today most all would unless there is an issue. Very much dramatized by the media. He also said that the reason they chose those 7 countries is because it was a current consensus by the Obama administration and Congress that those were the most dangerous. He said there will be more added but those were a way to get it implemented with the most agreement right away.

[Jtbny]

Nice gesture.

The U.S takes in about 1 million immigrants a year. 2016 about 85000 of those were refugees and of those 85000 approx 14,000 from Syria.
http://www.pewresearch.org/fact-tank...ugees-in-2016/

Canada's effort for has been far greater than the U.S for the Syrians where they more than doubled the total number (about 40k).

However,
"Canada places 15th among industrialized countries in accepting refugees"

"The 14 countries that have accepted more refugees than Canada include all Scandinavian countries, most major European countries and the United States."
http://globalnews.ca/news/2951263/th...s-than-canada/

So, yes the U.S looks like we are "closing our borders" but in essence it's not the case. We have historically been very open where other countries have lagged behind. The policy going forward will be more selective and there is some validity to that as long as it's not absolute and not permanent. I'm not sure it's a bad thing to re-examine the policies in place although I think the execution so far has been poor.

[Corbi]

Y Very much dramatized by the media.

What??? No way!!

[paolo59]

Just saw online. Individuals with green cards will be allowed to travel, unencumbered, without inconvenience. Those who travel repeatedly from those Middle Eastern nations most effected by terrorism will be subject to a more 'robust' questioning upon their return to the United States. Seems reasonable to me.

[lotusdeva]

From what I have heard on the news for the past 12 hours, you would think there were thousands upon thousands detained, handcuffed, stripped searched, thrown to the dogs, and forced to sit across the table from Nancy Pelosi...with a stale, luke warm cup of coffee on the table in front of them...and no freakin' cigarettes!

I am truly sorry for inconvenience. I am truly sorry for much more than that! I am not sorry for a sovereign nation taking steps to secure its own borders and the influx of immigrants/refugees...from anywhere, under any circumstances!

Per Cato institute (conservative think tank) foreign nationals from the 7 countries banned on the list have killed ZERO Americans in attacks on American soil since 1975. The annual chance of an American dying in a terrorist attack committed by a refugee is one in 3.6 BILLION. You have 1 in 3000 chance being struck by lightning in your lifetime, btw.

There is a number of Muslim countries not included in Trump's list, especially Saudi Arabia, United Arab Emirates and Egypt, where statistics show that citizens from these countries are responsible for 3000 American deaths, the bulk of which happened on 9/11. Of course, Trump has business dealings specifically in these countries, which is a perfect example of the conflict of interest.

[LisaSkinnoble]

Nice gesture.

The U.S takes in about 1 million immigrants a year. 2016 about 85000 of those were refugees and of those 85000 approx 14,000 from Syria.
http://www.pewresearch.org/fact-tank...ugees-in-2016/

Canada's effort for has been far greater than the U.S for the Syrians where they more than doubled the total number (about 40k).

However,
"Canada places 15th among industrialized countries in accepting refugees"

"The 14 countries that have accepted more refugees than Canada include all Scandinavian countries, most major European countries and the United States."
http://globalnews.ca/news/2951263/th...s-than-canada/

So, yes the U.S looks like we are "closing our borders" but in essence it's not the case. We have historically been very open where other countries have lagged behind. The policy going forward will be more selective and there is some validity to that as long as it's not absolute and not permanent. I'm not sure it's a bad thing to re-examine the policies in place although I think the execution so far has been poor.

Why would you choose historical data when the order just came into effect? I don't see how the data applies to this travel ban.

Certainly, historically, the US has accepted immigrants. But apparently that changed yesterday. That's why all the hullabaloo!

Time will tell, but I believe Mr Trudeau's statement is more than a gesture - pretty sure he means it. His government came into power halfway through the time period for the stats you quoted. Change the time period and the data might well reflect a different picture.

While you're perusing Canadian news stories, you should check out some of the refugee success stories - really inspiring stuff. Might assuage some people's fears.

[Jtbny]

Why would you choose historical data when the order just came into effect? I don't see how the data applies to this travel ban.

Certainly, historically, the US has accepted immigrants. But apparently that changed yesterday. That's why all the hullabaloo!

Time will tell, but I believe Mr Trudeau's statement is more than a gesture - pretty sure he means it. His government came into power halfway through the time period for the stats you quoted. Change the time period and the data might well reflect a different picture.

While you're perusing Canadian news stories, you should check out some of the refugee success stories - really inspiring stuff. Might assuage some people's fears.

Because historically we have been pretty liberal with our immigration and far more than many. Trudeau's tweet is being used to shame the U.S even though, like you said, the order was just signed and the historical data is all I can go by, not good intentions and not by an order that just took effect. I stand by what I said about this new issue above.

This wasn't a knock on what Canada has done. Also, being so close to Canada I do read some of the on-goings over the border. Nothing but respect for the north. I wasn't being salty although it seems you took it that way.

I do think Canada should take notice of the political happenings here though. When I hear people like O'Leary talk about wanting to lead the country it reminds me of DT did and said- not to his extreme but the tide can easily change.