Some questions on relation of training volume and bulking (3k+ reps)

[ridge_forrester]

Probably a dumb question, but hear me out..

If you slow bulk (on a moderate volume routine + 1g protein/lb/day) and gain no significant strength or muscle, is the issue most likely insufficient volume?

Bit of background:

I've been 220 for years, and tried bulking to 250+ without a significant increase in training volume (routine was 2x upper, 2x lower, 100 total work reps per body part per week). Having been up to 250 and back down to 220, there hasn't been a substantial change in muscle or strength.

I'm running an experiment at the moment where I'm maintaining weight, and doing 200-300 work reps per body part, per week. It seems to be giving me some renewed size and strength. Considering the volume is equal or more than GVT, do you think it would be best to try another bulk? How long do you think this volume is realistically sustainable for?

My goal is strength and size at the expense of everything else for now.

[magician27]

Probably a dumb question, but hear me out..

If you slow bulk (on a moderate volume routine + 1g protein/lb/day) and gain no significant strength or muscle, is the issue most likely insufficient volume?

probably problem is that you are natural, if you are. you wont get bigger than that on 6'1 frame unless you get fat. if you get fatter, you may get little more stronger due to leverages

[SuffolkPunch]

Yes, volume increases are the number one thing to try when stagnating.

Just be careful when defining volume - because it's not just sets x reps - intensity and exertion both play into it too.

If you start overreaching at a particular level of volume, you can take time off to reset your body's sensitivity to volume - then come back with a reduce volume.

[rollalong]

Yes, volume increases are the number one thing to try when stagnating.

Just be careful when defining volume - because it's not just sets x reps - intensity and exertion both play into it too.

See bold. I use to train basically Max ot without the 4-6 reps and just kicked my ass on work sets. Stagnated for a LONG time, but I was toast after every workout so I thought I was doing it right. Now I'm doing between 18-24 sets per muscle per week total with higher frequency (muscles hit 2-3 times a week), straight sets, approaching failure on last set most of the time, but never to failure. FINALLY growing again.

[ridge_forrester]

probably problem is that you are natural, if you are. you wont get bigger than that on 6'1 frame unless you get fat. if you get fatter, you may get little more stronger due to leverages

Yes natty but a bit more muscle/fat than my avi (which was taken at about 180lbs). Hopefully there's more growth I can get on this frame.

Yes, volume increases are the number one thing to try when stagnating.

Just be careful when defining volume - because it's not just sets x reps - intensity and exertion both play into it too.

If you start overreaching at a particular level of volume, you can take time off to reset your body's sensitivity to volume - then come back with a reduce volume.

Good answer, thanks. That's one thing I'm quite careful of on this new routine - average effort is quite a bit lighter than I'm used to. I'll do one top set of around 9RPE (on upper body, maybe 8-9RPE on squats/deads), then drop the weight a little for a few sets at ~8RPE.

Edit: Easier explanation would be most sets are 60-85% range

Sometimes finishing off smaller parts with a 20-40 rep out.

See bold. I use to train basically Max ot without the 4-6 reps and just kicked my ass on work sets. Stagnated for a LONG time, but I was toast after every workout so I thought I was doing it right. Now I'm doing between 18-24 sets per muscle per week total with higher frequency (muscles hit 2-3 times a week), straight sets, approaching failure on last set most of the time, but never to failure. FINALLY growing again.

I think 18-24 or so is around the volume I'm trying now. Also not going near failure (except on first top set). How long have you been doing this for, and do you find that you need any periods of deloading or detraining?

[rollalong]

Not too long, but it's a planned overreaching cycle. I keep sets and reps the same for a few weeks. After a few weeks, it gets easier and then I add 3 sets a week per bodypart (usually one set to the first lift which I'm hitting about 3x a week). Then after another few weeks I'll do it again. When I start to feel run down or weak, that's when I'll deload. Two ways to proceed after that

1. Decrease volume drastically and use the accumulated fatigue and in turn super compensation to realize strength ("dual factor training/periodization/whatthe****ever").

2. Increase weighs 10% and start the cycle over again. Not sure what I will do yet.

You could just keep the volume constant and just try to move up in weight on movements when it gets too easy. Probably wouldn't need to reload very often for that. I'm just giving overreaching a try.

[ridge_forrester]

Really good reply, thanks.