Band/Chain questions...

[shgadwa]

I've been lifting weights for 3 years now. For the past several months I've been following a 6 day ppl program and its been working out very well for me. I want to add bands to take it to the next level but I have no idea how or where to start. I did do a ton of research (tnation helped a lot) but I still have questions.

What I have learned:
--I have determined this method of training is not for beginners. Because I have been lifting weights for 3 years, I believe it is safe for me to experiment with bands/chains.
--It may be unwise to use bands or chains in every exercise for an extended period of time due to the increases stress it can place on your central nervous system. Especially because of the way bands want to pull the weight down and you must fight it to ensure proper form.
--Because of the way bands try to pull the weight down, this can be used to our advantage as it teaches you to push (or pull) weight explosively to overcome the strength of the bands.

That said, I have some questions:
--What strength band should I use??? Should band (or chain) strength/weight be a % of the barbell weight? For an example, if I could bench 225lbs without bands, should I use a band which is 40lbs fully stretched being 15% of barbell weight? If I could bench 315lbs without bands, should stick with the 40lbs band or should I use a 50lb band which is approx 15% of 315?? Or because I can bench 315lbs for reps, should I use a higher percentage for band strength, like say a 100lb band?
--Should I use bands for weeks and then avoid them for weeks (cycle on and off), or should I use bands one week, not use them the next, then repeat?
--Would you add bands or chains in almost every exercise on a day you're using bands or would you do it only on 1-3 exercises in which you were wanting to gain strength in?
--During the week, I have a heavy day and a light day (Strength, hypertrophy). Should I use bands on only the strength days, or are they useful on the hypertrophy days as well? If I was using bands that week, should I use bands on both days, or alternate? Ex: This week is strength band week, next week is hypertrophy band week


Finally, I don't have access to bands or chains currently. I have purchased a few rogue mini and monster mini bands (regular and shorty) so I will use those when they come in. As for chains, I am thinking about getting (or making my own) stump straps (as seen here, http://www.roguefitness.com/stump-straps). If the strap was long enough to deload the weight when in the down position, would these basically be the same as chains? If so, should I incorporate those into my workouts or just stick with bands for now? I do not want to buy heavy chains and have to carry them in and out of the gym.

It's worth noting, I am a recreational lifter. Not a bodybuilder and esp not a powerlifter. But I have been adding in powerlifting techniques as I believe getting stronger is the first step in getting bigger.

[jjackson556]

eh I wrote an article on this for my site. I can't post links here yet...still to new. If you google tierthreetactical and bands you'll find it. I've written it for advanced crossfitters and strength athletes. I've answered all your questions in the article and I recommend a training cycle I've had good results with.

[AdamBanotai]

My first question is if you don't have much knowledge or experience with bands and don't know how to implement them why you think they will help you "take it to the next level"?

There is value to adding bands and chains for the raw lifter but it is usually grossly overestimated. Straight weight should be the basis of your training. If you

FWIW, those stump straps will not replicate anything like chains.

[Dawes]

I've had mixed experiences with bands:

Bench:
0 use, got weaker. Got injured more whilst using bands and my raw bench afterwards was 10kg weaker with about 4 pec strains in the last 8 months. I have run my own straight weight porgram since and within 2 months I'm back to where I was pre band programming.

Squat:
Got a little bit stronger, probably could have got the same with straight weight.

Deadlift:
Felt this had the best carry over, but still could have got there without bands.

I was typically doing a heavy and speed day. Speed day was always with bands. Heavy day was a mixture of straight weight or overload with bands. Changing variation every 4 weeks.

Overall I tested it for 3/4 of a year under the instruction of a powerlifting coach. I would maybe run the exercises again with deadlifts and squats if I get bored, but they won't be my go to exercises.

Moral of the story, just because it looks complicated, doesn't mean it will make you better.

[Hervee]

Don't drastically over think it. Use it as an extra tool in your workout. Instead of doing your regular benching, incorporate the bands or chains for appr 10% of your bar weight and try to progressively overload as you would normally.

I have used both in the past, and preferred the chains since they give you a more natural/realistic overload.

Good luck.

[melDorado]

Ive used chains 15% of my 1rm for bench, i made my own it's so easy. I do cgbp with them and it has helped my sticking point which was top of lift (triceps) and power yes.

[Garage Rat]

Nothing wrong with experimenting.
Be aware bands will force you into a groove it dictates and may take you out of your normal bar path.
Also make sure you have a spotter or safe way of getting out of the bench if you fail a rep.
Bands will staple the bar to your chest.
Know where your weakness is on the BP.
Bands are usually for guys that need lockout strength and guys that use bench shirts.
Not saying it can't help overall BP but the reasons above are why many use them.
Chains would be safer and more forgiving allowing you a more natural groove.
I wouldn't worry about exact numbers on band resistance due to individuals having different arm lengths and chest size.
Just consider the band used for you.
I would stick with only micro mini,mini and master mini for BP.
Programing is a whole other story.
I would do some research at Westside or EFTS on band/chain usage.

[_Aggression_]

I've run multiple 'conjugate' programs where bands/chains were implemented. I never liked bands, for reasons stated above; they take you out of your groove. And when using them for bench, I used to get real bad inflammation in the elbows when doing banded speed work. On squats/deadlifts, bands were a bit easier, but I don't believe it carried over too much. Chains were better for me with bench and deads. I felt they helped my sticking point, especially with deads; weakpoint being at knee/above. I haven't used them as part of a program in a while. Every so often, I'll take out some chains and do some heavy pulls with 'em, but that's it. I've found success using straight bar weight as a raw lifter.

[dutchie1]

I've had mixed experiences with bands:

Bench:
0 use, got weaker. Got injured more whilst using bands and my raw bench afterwards was 10kg weaker with about 4 pec strains in the last 8 months. I have run my own straight weight porgram since and within 2 months I'm back to where I was pre band programming.

Squat:
Got a little bit stronger, probably could have got the same with straight weight.

Deadlift:
Felt this had the best carry over, but still could have got there without bands.

I was typically doing a heavy and speed day. Speed day was always with bands. Heavy day was a mixture of straight weight or overload with bands. Changing variation every 4 weeks.

Overall I tested it for 3/4 of a year under the instruction of a powerlifting coach. I would maybe run the exercises again with deadlifts and squats if I get bored, but they won't be my go to exercises.

Moral of the story, just because it looks complicated, doesn't mean it will make you better.

I take it you were using the conjugate method?

I've actually found that bands really helped increase my bench press. Though it took me a while before i finally figured out how to get them to work for me. At first i used way too much band tension. If i use too much band tension and bench afterwarths with just straight weight my groove gets thrown off really badly. It just felt awkward. And another thing that actually helped me is to do speed work with just straight weight every 2-4 weeks (increasing the percentage slightly).

Nowadays i use a very light amount of bands and speed work just takes me 4.5 minutes, if i cant get it done while resting 15-30 seconds between sets its probably too heavy. I know all the westside guys say the bar should move fast, but i'll go ahead and repeat them it should move ridiculously fast.

I found that due to learning to keep pushing through the entire ROM my bench got better. It obliviously didnt help my strength off my chest so to compensate i do alot of dumbell bench pressing. I do all my ME work with straight weight, i might use bands once every 4-8 weeks for ME work. I also always use a full ROM.

Haven't tried it much for my squat or deadlift. Only twice for a ME deadlift (bands and reverse band), never for a ME squat. When i tried it for ME deadlifts i felt like they made me lazy off the bottom. Occasionally i used it for lowerbody speed work. Felt awfull cause like i said earlier i went too heavy (front squats with too much band tension was a nightmare).