Keto diet and refeeds

[TravisGM]

Hello all! I understand there is a lot of content in here about ketosis and refeeds but I want to attempt to clarify this idea that refeeds help "boost" your metabolism back up.

For those of you who dislike Lyle McDonald, I'll give you an early warning; most of the information I'll be posting is from the man himself.




McDonald states, "In general, short refeeds, lasting from 5 to 24 hours were used every so often while dieting. I’ve tried them all .... The question is whether or not those programs were optimal. In my opinion, they aren’t for several reasons.

One of the factors I’ve been considering to a great degree has to do with the length of the overfeeding period. While it’s true that 5 (or 12 or 24) hours of concentrated overfeeding will raise leptin, the more important question is whether that’s sufficient to ‘tell’ the brain that you’re fed. While data (especially in humans) is nonexistent, my hunch is no.

There’s a lag time of several days between the drop in leptin and the drop in metabolic rate (nervous system output) for example; I’d be surprised if a mere 12 or 24 hours was sufficient to reverse this. Rather, I’d expect it to take a similar amount of time for the reversal to occur ...

Now, this isn’t to say that short carb-loads/refeeds aren’t of benefit. They refill glycogen, turn off catabolism and maybe induce an anabolic response to boot. They also let you eat some of the crap you’re really craving which helps psychologically. But I doubt they are sufficient to affect metabolism very much. Instead, a longer refeed is necessary. The drawback, of course, is that longer refeeds have a tendency to put too much bodyfat back on which goes agains the entire goal of dieting."

So can we clarify whether refeeds actually boost the metabolism or not? They have obvious benefits (as he stated), but the main concern is metabolism manipulation. Anyone have any science to back up his claim (or refute it)?

[EternalReturn]

Hi, thanks for that Lyle Mcdonalds, comment. Lots of people here do a regular standard ketogenic diet (SKD), without any cheat-meal, without any high-carbohydrates day, without any high-calorie days. Like the Dr. Atkins diet and they claim that they don't need any refeed high-calories, high-carbohydrates day at all. I used to do a high-carb, refeed day about once a week.

But since about 3 years ago, i have been doing the non-stop permanent standard ketogenic diet (SKD), without any refeed. I remember that refeeds of high-carb days used to make me feel real bad, real sluggish. I have lost a little bit of power in the basic weight-training exercises like bench press. As a result of weight loss and an excess of slow long-distance aerobic exercising (1 hour and 30 minutes, 5 days per week of fast walking and stationary bike)

Hello all! I understand there is a lot of content in here about ketosis and refeeds but I want to attempt to clarify this idea that refeeds help "boost" your metabolism back up.

For those of you who dislike Lyle McDonald, I'll give you an early warning; most of the information I'll be posting is from the man himself.




McDonald states, "In general, short refeeds, lasting from 5 to 24 hours were used every so often while dieting. I’ve tried them all .... The question is whether or not those programs were optimal. In my opinion, they aren’t for several reasons.

One of the factors I’ve been considering to a great degree has to do with the length of the overfeeding period. While it’s true that 5 (or 12 or 24) hours of concentrated overfeeding will raise leptin, the more important question is whether that’s sufficient to ‘tell’ the brain that you’re fed. While data (especially in humans) is nonexistent, my hunch is no.

There’s a lag time of several days between the drop in leptin and the drop in metabolic rate (nervous system output) for example; I’d be surprised if a mere 12 or 24 hours was sufficient to reverse this. Rather, I’d expect it to take a similar amount of time for the reversal to occur ...

Now, this isn’t to say that short carb-loads/refeeds aren’t of benefit. They refill glycogen, turn off catabolism and maybe induce an anabolic response to boot. They also let you eat some of the crap you’re really craving which helps psychologically. But I doubt they are sufficient to affect metabolism very much. Instead, a longer refeed is necessary. The drawback, of course, is that longer refeeds have a tendency to put too much bodyfat back on which goes agains the entire goal of dieting."

So can we clarify whether refeeds actually boost the metabolism or not? They have obvious benefits (as he stated), but the main concern is metabolism manipulation. Anyone have any science to back up his claim (or refute it)?

[TravisGM]

Hi, thanks for that Lyle Mcdonalds, comment. Lots of people here do a regular standard ketogenic diet (SKD), without any cheat-meal, without any high-carbohydrates day, without any high-calorie days. Like the Dr. Atkins diet and they claim that they don't need any refeed high-calories, high-carbohydrates day at all. I used to do a high-carb, refeed day about once a week.

But since about 3 years ago, i have been doing the non-stop permanent standard ketogenic diet (SKD), without any refeed. I remember that refeeds of high-carb days used to make me feel real bad, real sluggish. I have lost a little bit of power in the basic weight-training exercises like bench press. As a result of weight loss and an excess of slow long-distance aerobic exercising (1 hour and 30 minutes, 5 days per week of fast walking and stationary bike)

Makes sense. Thanks for your insight.

Couple of questions; are you trying to build muscle or strength? What has your experience been with the keto diet and your muscle/strength goals?

[EternalReturn]

Hi, Travis. Sorry for the late reply to your question. My experience has been good so far, but from my own experience, I advise people who are new to ketogenic diets, specially people who lift heavy weights in the basic weight-training exercises (such as flat bench press, inclined bench press, squats for legs, military press for shoulders and other important weight training exercises, not to lower the protein intake too much)

And not to do an excess of aerobic exercises (such as fast walking, jogging, running, stationary bike, regular bicycling, etc) Because an excess of aerobic exercises can also destroy and rob muscle power. I am a little bit addicted to stationary bike. And some days after my regular 1 hour fast walking, I would add 1 whole extra hour of stationary bike. And I payed that with a very evil price (a loss of power in my flat bench press and in the incline bench press)

I think that 40 minutes to 60 minutes of slow long distance aerobic exercise is a good perfect amount of aerobic exercise (5 days to 6 days per week). I think that any more slow long distanc aerobic exercise than that, leads to a process of destruction of strength in the basic lifting exercises

I am trying to now a low-carb diet (higher protein and lower in fats) with about 41% of calories coming from fats, and 47% of calories from proteins, and the remaining 12% from carbohydrates.

Here is what my diet looks like, its a sort of Warrior Diet (except that the warrior diet does not include a breakfast, only 1 big dinner):


Breakfast
Eggs Pancake
Ingredients:
4 eggs (20 grams of protein, 300 calories)
1 scoop of whey protein powder (20 grams of protein, 100 calories)
1/2 a cup of egg whites (10 grams of protein, 50 calories)
Half a teaspoon of vinegar
A teaspoon of salt
3 packets of splenda or nutrasweet
Butter Cooking Spray

Directions: Pour all ingredients into juice blender. Blend for 30 seconds. Pour mix into pre-heated frying pan sprayed with the butter cooking spray on high heat. After pouring the mix, turn into low heat. When the eggs pancake is dry, turn sides, wait a little bit until it's fully cooked like a pancake. You can sprinkle it with another couple packets of splenda or nutrasweet

Nutrition info:
Calories: 450 calories.
Grams of fats: 20
Grams of protein: 50

Lunch (0 calories).

Dinner 2: 9 PM:

4 eggs (20 grams of protein, 20 grams of fats, 300 calories)
1 scoop of whey protein powder (20 grams of protein, 100 calories)
1/2 a cup of egg whites (10 grams of protein, 50 calories)
Half a teaspoon of vinegar
A teaspoon of salt
3 packets of splenda or nutrasweet
Butter Cooking Spray
8 ounces of cooked dark chicken (60 grams of protein, 22 grams of fats, 450 calories)

Directions: Pour all ingredients into juice blender. Blend for 30 seconds. Pour mix into pre-heated frying pan sprayed with the butter cooking spray on high heat. After pouring the mix, turn into low heat. When the eggs pancake is dry, turn sides, wait a little bit until it's fully cooked like a pancake. You can sprinkle it with another couple packets of splenda or nutrasweet

Nutrition info:
Calories: 900 calories.
Grams of fats: 42
Grams of protein: 110

Total calories: 1350 calories
Total grams of fats: 62
Total calories from fats: 558
Percentage of fat calories: 41% fat calories
Total grams ofProtein: 160 grams of protein. 47% calories from protein

NOTE 1: This diet has a total of 1350 calories, which is very low for a person who lifts weights, and does aerobic exercises (such as fast-walking, bicycling, stationary bicycling, jogging and running. So if you feel very hungry between meals choose one of the following snacks any time you feel a deep hunger and weakness:

NOTE 2: If after eating one of these 200 calories snacks you still feel weak and hungry. Eat another 200 calories snack

NOTE 3: If 1 snack between meals is added to the diet, the total calories will rise to 1550

NOTE 4: If 2 snacks is added to the diet, the total amount of calories will rise to 1750

NOTE 5: If 3 snacks are added to the diet, the total amount of calories will rise to 1950 calories

Snacks allowed between meals:
4 ounces of cooked dark chicken: 200 calories (30 grams of protein, 10 fat gr)
3 scrambled eggs: 200 calories (15 grams of protein, 15 grams of fats)
4 ounces of Regular deli ham (200 calories, 10 grams of fats, 25 protein grs)
3 oz White mexican queso fresco (200 calories, 18 grams of fat, 18 grams of fats)
2 oz of Cheddar cheese (200 calories,

Makes sense. Thanks for your insight.

Couple of questions; are you trying to build muscle or strength? What has your experience been with the keto diet and your muscle/strength goals?

[TravisGM]

Wow! That was super in-depth and helpful. Thanks for your insight

I'll put some of what you said to the test