[PSA} bosus & burpees

[KyleAaron]

No.

For pity's sake, train your clients, don't exercise them. If they want pointless suffering with no results, they have their lives outside the gym.

That's all.

[Bigshep87]

So, when I first saw the thread title, but before I saw who posted it, my thought was "ok, here's someone going to try to tell us how great the damn bosu garbage is...."

Yeah, I'm in total agreement. Lol.

[KyleAaron]

The other 80 people who viewed this thread but didn't comment must have had their feelings hurt.

[Ronin4help]

A client is a person who pays a professional for a service. The client is the one who decides what that service is, not the trainer. If he/she wants that crap, they have the right to pay and receive. There is a difference between a client and a John.

[KyleAaron]

By that reasoning, the restaurant customer should come into the kitchen and tell the chef which recipe to use. No. The client tells us their background and goals, and we decide the most appropriate way to help them based on their background and their goals.

Bosus and burpees are never the most appropriate way to train. But like zumba, jazzercise, curlbroing and masturbation, they may be a fun way to get your sweat on.

[scienceoverhype]

Agree. Trainers/coaches are sought out for their expertise. Defendants/plaintiffs don't advise the lawer how to approach a case. Patients don't instruct a Physical Therapist how to rehabilitate an injury. Etc etc. That's not to say that we shouldn't appeal to the client once in a while.

And BOSU balls have no place in the weight room. Get that **** out of here. IMO, burpees are okay. They have their place in conditioning/energy systems training.

[Ronin4help]

By that reasoning, the restaurant customer should come into the kitchen and tell the chef which recipe to use. No. The client tells us their background and goals, and we decide the most appropriate way to help them based on their background and their goals.

Bosus and burpees are never the most appropriate way to train. But like zumba, jazzercise, curlbroing and masturbation, they may be a fun way to get your sweat on.

A customer is not a client. But yes, when you go into a restaurant you tell them exactly what you want:

"I'll take a fillet, medium rare, side salad with dressing on side, broccoli no seasoning, and ice tea with lemon and no sugar.'

[Ronin4help]

Agree. Trainers/coaches are sought out for their expertise. Defendants/plaintiffs don't advise the lawer how to approach a case. Patients don't instruct a Physical Therapist how to rehabilitate an injury. Etc etc. That's not to say that we shouldn't appeal to the client once in a while.

And BOSU balls have no place in the weight room. Get that **** out of here. IMO, burpees are okay. They have their place in conditioning/energy systems training.

You are just rambling. A patient is not a client. And someone like yourself would not advise your lawyer because you do not know anything about law, but in corporate law, yes they do, they hire a firm on retainer and they instruct precisly what they want done on all litigations.

[Ronin4help]

By that reasoning, the restaurant customer should come into the kitchen and tell the chef which recipe to use. No. The client tells us their background and goals, and we decide the most appropriate way to help them based on their background and their goals.

Bosus and burpees are never the most appropriate way to train. But like zumba, jazzercise, curlbroing and masturbation, they may be a fun way to get your sweat on.

If someone is sweating while beating off, they really need to see a doctor.

[scienceoverhype]

A customer is not a client. But yes, when you go into a restaurant you tell them exactly what you want:

"I'll take a fillet, medium rare, side salad with dressing on side, broccoli no seasoning, and ice tea with lemon and no sugar.'

You don't tell a 5 star or Michelin star chef how to cook their carbonara pasta. You don't tell the chef how to orchestrate the spices for their steak recipe. Yes, the steak is cooked to the customer's preference, the same way you regress/progress/modify an exercise for an individual.

You are just rambling. A patient is not a client. And someone like yourself would not advise your lawyer because you do not know anything about law, but in corporate law, yes they do, they hire a firm on retainer and they instruct precisly what they want done on all litigations.

Perhaps. And yes, I don't know much about law but I would assume corporations are a different game than an individual the same way personal training is different than group exercise.

Point is... We are a service that is hired to meet an objective, the client shouldn't dictate HOW to get to the objective.

[KramerJD]

No.

For pity's sake, train your clients, don't exercise them. If they want pointless suffering with no results, they have their lives outside the gym.

That's all.

so no crossfit

[Ronin4help]

You don't tell a 5 star or Michelin star chef how to cook their carbonara pasta. You don't tell the chef how to orchestrate the spices for their steak recipe. Yes, the steak is cooked to the customer's preference, the same way you regress/progress/modify an exercise for an individual.



Perhaps. And yes, I don't know much about law but I would assume corporations are a different game than an individual the same way personal training is different than group exercise.

Point is... We are a service that is hired to meet an objective, the client shouldn't dictate HOW to get to the objective.

My mistake was to accept your analogies as precise. Let me try again...

"I'll take a fillet, medium rare, (I want to do triceps today) side salad with dressing on side (Can we do some kickbacks?), broccoli no seasoning (I prefer the hex DBs over the rubber ones), and ice tea with lemon and no sugar (Next, can we do pulldowns?).'

The client isn't supposed to tell the trainer how to administer the program (e.g. reps, weight, sets) but yes, the client has every right to express his/her preferences in relation to equipment. So no, as a patron you do not instruct the chief on how to cook a meal, only how you wish for that meal to be prepared.

[amsgator]

A client is a person who pays a professional for a service. The client is the one who decides what that service is, not the trainer. If he/she wants that crap, they have the right to pay and receive. There is a difference between a client and a John.

And if the client doesn't like the service they get they are free to go elsewhere. No one is forcing the client to choose a particular trainer.

The trainer chooses what services he/she offers, just as every other business chooses what services or products they will offer. If the buyer doesn't like what the seller has to sell, then they can go somewhere else until they find what they want.

If the potential client doesn't want the offered services then they should go find a trainer who will give them what they want. I wouldn't go to Kyle looking for elastic band workouts because I know that is not the type of training he offers, and that is made very clear to potential clients on his website.

A client doesn't tell the trainer how to do their job any more than I tell a doctor what meds to prescribe to me. If I don't like that doctor's treatment I go find a different doctor.

[Ronin4help]

And if the client doesn't like the service they get they are free to go elsewhere. No one is forcing the client to choose a particular trainer.

The trainer chooses what services he/she offers, just as every other business chooses what services or products they will offer. If the buyer doesn't like what the seller has to sell, then they can go somewhere else until they find what they want.

If the potential client doesn't want the offered services then they should go find a trainer who will give them what they want. I wouldn't go to Kyle looking for elastic band workouts because I know that is not the type of training he offers, and that is made very clear to potential clients on his website.

A client doesn't tell the trainer how to do their job any more than I tell a doctor what meds to prescribe to me. If I don't like that doctor's treatment I go find a different doctor.

You do realize it's me you are talking to, not some newbie trainer who doesn't have a clue. Do you really think we are arguing that clients should tell the trainer what to do? Is that why you interjected?

[amsgator]

You do realize it's me you are talking to, not some newbie trainer who doesn't have a clue. Do you really think we are arguing that clients should tell the trainer what to do? Is that why you interjected?

[sarcasm]You must be special. When I grow up I want to be cool like you.

I thought you were arguing the customer should tell the chef how to cook.[/sarcasm]

[KyleAaron]

so no crossfit

Correct.

Oh and play nice, boys.

[Ronin4help]

[sarcasm]You must be special. When I grow up I want to be cool like you.

I thought you were arguing the customer should tell the chef how to cook.[/sarcasm]

When you come to a thread where Kyle and I are debating, please bring your A game. Why the f**k would anyone be arguing that a client should tell the trainer what to do? Or that a restaurant customer should be able to boss the chef around and tell him/her which recipes to use?

It is clear, if one is intelligent, that I am not arguing something as ridiculous as that. I am essentially saying that if a client wants to do squats on a stupid BOSU ball, the trainer should let him/her. That doesn't mean that the trainer has to agree with that particular exercise, but rather explain why he/she doesn't like it and perhaps in such a convincing manner that the client then decides he/she also doesn't like the concept after further consideration.

[amsgator]

When you come to a thread where Kyle and I are debating, please bring your A game. Why the f**k would anyone be arguing that a client should tell the trainer what to do? Or that a restaurant customer should be able to boss the chef around and tell him/her which recipes to use?

It is clear, if one is intelligent, that I am not arguing something as ridiculous as that. I am essentially saying that if a client wants to do squats on a stupid BOSU ball, the trainer should let him/her. That doesn't mean that the trainer has to agree with that particular exercise, but rather explain why he/she doesn't like it and perhaps in such a convincing manner that the client then decides he/she also doesn't like the concept after further consideration.

"I'm not saying the client chooses the exercises. What I am saying is the client chooses the exercises."

[KyleAaron]

If the client wants to do whatever damn fool thing they please, they don't need to pay me for that. If they pay me, I tell them what to do. I'll happily explain why, and they can look around the gym and see examples of people who've followed my advice and ask them how it worked for them.

In practice I've never had a client who insisted on doing this or that. People who think they know what they should do don't hire trainers. I mean plenty have argued with me... but the real issue there was that sht got hard.

So let's not pretend that the bosus and burpees are there because of client demand. Most clients wouldn't know the difference between a bosu and a barbell when they start. Trainers are coming up with this nonsense on their own without any help from clients.

[Ronin4help]

"I'm not saying the client chooses the exercises. What I am saying is the client chooses the exercises."

Calm down brother. I know you think you have a point. Going back over my posts, trying to 'trap' me. I can assure you, that will never happen. Let me explain it in a way that hopefully doesn't confuse you. There is a difference between a client coming to a trainer and instructing the trainer what to do. This is what Kyle and others are arguing against. I'm not sure why because no one here is suggesting that. Why? Because that would be stupid. I am saying that if a client wants to try something, it is his/her right. The trainer should always accommodate. Let him/her try it. Explain why it's good or bad then move on. I think the difference between what Kyle is advocating and what I am saying is that Kyle and others believe the trainer should not budge. No suggestions, no opinions. If you don't like what I am offering then go somewhere else. I'm the trainer, you are the client. Sit down, shut up and listen or go f**k yourself. I personally don't have this type of rigid, unwavering approach. I see no harm in letting people try things they've seen or have heard about. It shows them that I am well rounded. I can train on anything and everything, I just chose not to use props like the BOSU ball. Often if you refuse to show them, it is viewed that you are only saying that because you don't really know how to use it. Other trainers are using it but you refuse. Why they wonder? Do you really not believe in it or are you just saying that because you have no idea how to use it. Putting those doubts to rest is only accomplished by showing them you know how to use the stupid thing, that you can create a program on that stupid thing, then explaining why it is in fact a STUPID thing. This is what I am arguing.

[amsgator]

Calm down brother. I know you think you have a point. Going back over my posts, trying to 'trap' me. I can assure you, that will never happen. Let me explain it in a way that hopefully doesn't confuse you. There is a difference between a client coming to a trainer and instructing the trainer what to do. This is what Kyle and others are arguing against. I'm not sure why because no one here is suggesting that. Why? Because that would be stupid. I am saying that if a client wants to try something, it is his/her right. The trainer should always accommodate. Let him/her try it. Explain why it's good or bad then move on. I think the difference between what Kyle is advocating and what I am saying is that Kyle and others believe the trainer should not budge. No suggestions, no opinions. If you don't like what I am offering then go somewhere else. I'm the trainer, you are the client. Sit down, shut up and listen or go f**k yourself. I personally don't have this type of rigid, unwavering approach. I see no harm in letting people try things they've seen or have heard about. It shows them that I am well rounded. I can train on anything and everything, I just chose not to use props like the BOSU ball. Often if you refuse to show them, it is viewed that you are only saying that because you don't really know how to use it. Other trainers are using it but you refuse. Why they wonder? Do you really not believe in it or are you just saying that because you have no idea how to use it. Putting those doubts to rest is only accomplished by showing them you know how to use the stupid thing, that you can create a program on that stupid thing, then explaining why it is in fact a STUPID thing. This is what I am arguing.

Except that's not what you said. That might be what you meant, but that's not what you said. What you said was the client runs the show.

A client is a person who pays a professional for a service. The client is the one who decides what that service is, not the trainer. If he/she wants that crap, they have the right to pay and receive. There is a difference between a client and a John.

Now get trapped in my PokeBall.

[Ronin4help]

Yes. Nothing has changed. This is true. The client has the right to receive what he wants. The thing you are forgetting is 90% of clients have no idea what type of program they want. This is why they hire a trainer. But if you train athletes or do sports conditioning, many athletes want to train on a specific apparatus or under specific conditions, etc.

Are you actually saying the client has no right to decide what he/she wants? That their wants and needs are irrelevant? Let me guess... you are still making less than $75,000 as a trainer.

[amsgator]

Yes. Nothing has changed. This is true. The client has the right to receive what he wants. The thing you are forgetting is 90% of clients have no idea what type of program they want. This is why they hire a trainer. But if you train athletes or do sports conditioning, many athletes want to train on a specific apparatus or under specific conditions, etc.

Are you actually saying the client has no right to decide what he/she wants? That their wants and needs are irrelevant? Let me guess... you are still making less than $75,000 as a trainer.

So now we've gone from training "clients" to training "athletes." I think I'm done here. Before I know it we'll be training Michael Phelps. On a bosu ball.

[Ronin4help]

You just quoted me. You forgot already? Google the word client. You clearly do not know what the term means. I'm sure it will match my original description of the word client. A client could be a housewife, businessman, student or athlete. As long as the person is paying you for services.. he/she is a client.

[Ronin4help]

So now we've gone from training "clients" to training "athletes." I think I'm done here. Before I know it we'll be training Michael Phelps. On a bosu ball.

As much as I hate to admit it.. this vid is pretty funny.

[amsgator]

A customer is not a client.

Whoops.

cus·tom·er noun - a person or organization that buys goods or services from a store or business.

As long as the person is paying you for services.. he/she is a client.

Now get in the PokeBall.

Now I'm really out. Gotta catch 'em all. On a bosu ball.

[Ronin4help]

Do you notice how you are the only one nitpicking? When I chose a thread to post in like this, I accept certain circumstances. This thread is one where the people are intelligent. When I say 'customer' I know everyone understands I mean restaurant customer. But this is your thing. It is the only way you know how to argue. I bet this is how you win arguments with your girl. By nitpicking her words. Yes... some 'customers' can be clients under certain situations. But a restaurant customer is never a client.

You have no point to this thread. You have no ideas or intelligent feedback. You simply want to do this dance until you get tired and fall asleep. Everyone knows me here. I have no need to waste anymore time defending this nonsense. But anytime you want to debate ideas, concepts or business strategies... I guarantee I will out smart you. You know it and I know it.

[KyleAaron]

I think gator's point, setting aside the penis-waving, is some basic distinctions.

Client - general population, no competitive goals beyond social level; call "Jo/e Average" if you prefer.
Athlete - competitive at a level beyond social

Trainer - works with clients - the trainer is general, you go to improve all sorts of athletic qualities
Coach - works with athletes - the coach is specific, you go to improve one athletic quality, or one sport

Put another way, a trainer helps someone get the first 50% of possible performance, a coach the second 50%. You can easily think of 50% of the world record in some lift or run or whatever - most Jo/e Average Types will have their lives absolutely transformed by getting to this level. Beyond is really only needed for competitive sports; nobody needs to squat 200kg or run 5km in 20' for their health.

This is notwistanding the fact that sometimes trainers will act as coaches (eg, I have people who compete in powerlifting) and that some trainers would rather call themselves "coaches". The Starting Strength Coaches are a good example of this; most of them work with Jo/e Average, not competitive athletes. Really they're trainers, they're just not personal trainers.

Athletes may be more prone to arguing with you than clients, I would suggest these are generally the less successful athletes.

Generally a trainer won't get athletes anymore than a coach would get clients.

[Ronin4help]

Also factor in the region. In the U.S. the term 'coach' is typically reserved for academic programs.

[KyleAaron]

Well we can call it Vulcans and Romulans if you like, the point is they are distinct groups, and one group rarely tries to tell us what to do, while in the other group only the unsuccessful ones try to tell us what to do.

Thus, the bosus and burpess are not coming from demand, but supply. People aren't demanding nonsense, trainers are insisting on it.