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  1. #301
    Registered User ReformingBB's Avatar
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    Thanks VM, I'd rep ya again if I was able to. And yes, I am stiff legging the weight at the top. I initially thought that this was a timing thing, and that maybe I should try to bend my knees more at the beginning, but when that didn't work and I read this forum I realized that something may be wrong.
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  2. #302
    Tough as Nails Andalite's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by Ravish View Post
    Q. Have I got this right, on Monday you lift the same weight for 5 sets and 5 reps?
    right

    Q. How much should you increase the weight from Monday's workout to Friday?
    they are independent. u try to either set or hit a new or previous (respectvely) 1,2,3,4,5 RM.
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  3. #303
    Registered User ReformingBB's Avatar
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    Matt,

    Thanks for trying to help, but my wrists are definitely in the proper position, the weight itself just seems to be a bit much on my joints (bodyweight 5x5 it tough )
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  4. #304
    Registered User toefur's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by Ravish View Post
    Q. Have I got this right, on Monday you lift the same weight for 5 sets and 5 reps?

    Q. How much should you increase the weight from Monday's workout to Friday?
    Part One: yeah, you do sets across at the same weight.

    Part Two: Monday's workout is a 5x5 set of squats. Friday's workout is an attempt as a personal best... which could be a 1 rep max, or a set of 5. The difference between monday and friday will be based on what your abilities dictate. I am using the texas method, and this week I did 280 lbs for my monday 5x5 and will attempt 320x5 for today's friday workout
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  5. #305
    Tough as Nails Andalite's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by toefur View Post
    Part One: yeah, you do sets across at the same weight.

    Part Two: Monday's workout is a 5x5 set of squats. Friday's workout is an attempt as a personal best... which could be a 1 rep max, or a set of 5. The difference between monday and friday will be based on what your abilities dictate. I am using the texas method, and this week I did 280 lbs for my monday 5x5 and will attempt 320x5 for today's friday workout
    correction: its not a 1RM or a 5RM attempt. its a one to five RM attempt
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  6. #306
    Registered User toefur's Avatar
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    yeah, that's what I meant to type. =)
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  7. #307
    Tough as Nails Andalite's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by toefur View Post
    yeah, that's what I meant to type. =)
    i know....but i didnt want a noob to read this wrong
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  8. #308
    Registered User toefur's Avatar
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    I know you know, I just didn't want a noob thinking I didn't know... or something
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  9. #309
    Ravishing Sick Dude Ravish's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by Andalite View Post

    they are independent. u try to either set or hit a new or previous (respectvely) 1,2,3,4,5 RM.
    So you should be looking to increase the weight on your Monday and Friday workouts independent of eachother?

    e.g. for Squats - your aim for Monday is to increase 5lbs p/week and your aim for Friday is to increase your PR by 2.5lbs p/week

    Am I on the right track?
    When the weight scale tells me I'm big enough, I tell the scale its wrong!
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  10. #310
    Registered User toefur's Avatar
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    Essentially, you are correct. The exact weights you increase might not be those you listed, because at that rate your 5x5 would catch your 1 rep max, but generally you have the idea Remember, you can also make PR improvements for REPS, rather than weight. If you try 300 and get 2 reps, you might try for 3 or 4 reps the next week.

    I generally try and increase the weight once I can manage a set of 5. =)
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  11. #311
    Ravishing Sick Dude Ravish's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by toefur View Post
    Essentially, you are correct. The exact weights you increase might not be those you listed, because at that rate your 5x5 would catch your 1 rep max, but generally you have the idea Remember, you can also make PR improvements for REPS, rather than weight. If you try 300 and get 2 reps, you might try for 3 or 4 reps the next week.

    I generally try and increase the weight once I can manage a set of 5. =)
    That makes sense, reps
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  12. #312
    Tough as Nails Andalite's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by Ravish View Post
    That makes sense, reps
    toefeur is not dumb
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  13. #313
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    This is good stuff. Much valuable to the relatively new trainee, but a lot to be told to intermed's as well .
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  14. #314
    Registered User toefur's Avatar
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    Something I find amazing is how you can up the weight without sacrificing much in performance. I've had numerous situations where I can only do 5 reps at a certain weight, but I can add 5 or 10 lbs and STILL get 5 reps. Last week I did 217.5 lbs for 4 reps as my new weight PR on the bench press. This week I did 225 lbs, and got 4 reps. I thought I might get 1 or 2. Hard to predict these things until you actually get under the iron and give it a shot.
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  15. #315
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    Originally Posted by Ravish View Post
    That makes sense, reps
    This is just another way of saying what's already been said, but the increases will go from Monday to Monday and Friday to Friday; not Monday to Friday.

    so like,

    Monday 1
    5x5x200
    Friday 1
    1x5x220

    Monday 2
    5x5x205
    Friday 2
    1x5x225
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  16. #316
    Tough as Nails Andalite's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by toefur View Post
    Something I find amazing is how you can up the weight without sacrificing much in performance. I've had numerous situations where I can only do 5 reps at a certain weight, but I can add 5 or 10 lbs and STILL get 5 reps. Last week I did 217.5 lbs for 4 reps as my new weight PR on the bench press. This week I did 225 lbs, and got 4 reps. I thought I might get 1 or 2. Hard to predict these things until you actually get under the iron and give it a shot.
    u should look at the friday workouts in my journal..............they might help u out
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  17. #317
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    Hey Adalite,

    Just thought I'd ask, to make sure... I am still making PR's on Friday, but am stalled on the 4th rep on the 4th set on Monday.

    I was doing 2 sets of a stop and go on bench doing triples with a lighter weight after a 3 rep PR, increasing the weight each week in proportion with the main attempt. Since I'm stalling Monday, should I lessen the weight, cut back a set on Friday, or both?

    Just an example in case I wasn't clear.
    Last Saturday I did 215X3, a PR but it didn't feel that difficult. I did two sets of 3 with 195, pausing for a second at the chest.

    Thanks for advice man. Oh, and if it makes any difference, I've been adding only 2-3 pounds per week on both Friday and Monday to try to eek as many weeks of progression through as I can. Finally I'm taking advantage of the fact that my gym has both Kilo and Pound plates in different increments
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  18. #318
    Tough as Nails Andalite's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by ReformingBB View Post
    Hey Adalite,

    Just thought I'd ask, to make sure... I am still making PR's on Friday, but am stalled on the 4th rep on the 4th set on Monday.

    I was doing 2 sets of a stop and go on bench doing triples with a lighter weight after a 3 rep PR, increasing the weight each week in proportion with the main attempt. Since I'm stalling Monday, should I lessen the weight, cut back a set on Friday, or both?

    Just an example in case I wasn't clear.
    Last Saturday I did 215X3, a PR but it didn't feel that difficult. I did two sets of 3 with 195, pausing for a second at the chest.

    Thanks for advice man. Oh, and if it makes any difference, I've been adding only 2-3 pounds per week on both Friday and Monday to try to eek as many weeks of progression through as I can. Finally I'm taking advantage of the fact that my gym has both Kilo and Pound plates in different increments
    firstly, good job on the micro loading with 2-3 pounds. great.

    secondly: monday determines progress not friday so im sorry to burst ur bubble but if ur still progressing on friday and not on monday, dont feel too happy about it

    thirdly, it looks like ur stuck.

    ok, so here is what i did and what worked for me. lets say on week 14 i was supposed to do 5x5 with 200 lbs on bench, ok? i got in 22 reps instead of 25. so next week i use the same weight and my goal is to get 23 reps. then the week after 24 and finally 25. once i nail 25 i will add 5 lbs to the bench. this is one option.

    option two is reducing the weight and working ur way back up. im not in favour of this as the first step u should take. IMO, first try option one and if still nothing happens then its time to do option 2.

    option three is that ur friday workout is ****ing ur monday workout. so u dont aim for a PR on friday u just do some light DE work or something. perhaps that might help. or u take the friday off (which i have done a few times and it has been GREAT!).

    ill think about this some more and let u know. so far this is what i got.

    best of luck dude

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    Half Norse, Half Animal VikingMan's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by Andalite View Post
    secondly: monday determines progress not friday so im sorry to burst ur bubble but if ur still progressing on friday and not on monday, dont feel too happy about it
    I have to disagree with you man.

    By enlarge, the volume needs to drive the intensity, but it's not like it's the end of the world if he's setting PRs on the Friday work, but lagging on the Monday work. Chances are, things will equalize and the Monday work will continue to climb. And certainly, it will have to eventually...

    The real issue here is that BOTH kinds of work, intensity AND workload help to fascilitate each other. The workload work fascilitates better hypertrophy, and the intensity work fascilitates more neural efficiency. If your intensity work isn't going up, the volume work will be more difficult. If the volume work isn't going up, the intensity work will be more difficult. They are BOTH required for progress to be made.
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    Tough as Nails Andalite's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by VikingMan View Post
    I have to disagree with you man.

    By enlarge, the volume needs to drive the intensity, but it's not like it's the end of the world if he's setting PRs on the Friday work, but lagging on the Monday work. Chances are, things will equalize and the Monday work will continue to climb. And certainly, it will have to eventually...

    The real issue here is that BOTH kinds of work, intensity AND workload help to fascilitate each other. The workload work fascilitates better hypertrophy, and the intensity work fascilitates more neural efficiency. If your intensity work isn't going up, the volume work will be more difficult. If the volume work isn't going up, the intensity work will be more difficult. They are BOTH required for progress to be made.
    im not denying intensite being equally important as volume at all. what i meant was that if ur setting PRs on friday and not on monday, something is amiss. because, like it or not, in it was the other way around where u r not setting PRs on friday but PRs on monday, thats still better.
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    Originally Posted by Andalite View Post
    im not denying intensite being equally important as volume at all.
    Sure you are....

    vvvvv

    Originally Posted by Andalite View Post
    because, like it or not, in it was the other way around where u r not setting PRs on friday but PRs on monday, thats still better.
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    Originally Posted by Andalite View Post
    im not denying intensite being equally important as volume at all. what i meant was that if ur setting PRs on friday and not on monday, something is amiss. because, like it or not, in it was the other way around where u r not setting PRs on friday but PRs on monday, thats still better.
    Andalite, I really do respect your opinions but you have me confused here. No, I haven't talked to Mark about this and maybe you have.

    Just from a logical perspective, it seems to me that the sole purpose of a strength program is to get the strength up. I mean, if you're going to a PL event, the only thing that matters is your 1RM. It just seems to me that the 5X5 stuff would be meant to drive the 1RM up.

    It seems to me that they go hand in hand. You need to be moving up on both the volume day and the intensity day.
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    Originally Posted by Dave76 View Post
    Andalite, I really do respect your opinions but you have me confused here. No, I haven't talked to Mark about this and maybe you have.

    Just from a logical perspective, it seems to me that the sole purpose of a strength program is to get the strength up. I mean, if you're going to a PL event, the only thing that matters is your 1RM. It just seems to me that the 5X5 stuff would be meant to drive the 1RM up.

    It seems to me that they go hand in hand. You need to be moving up on both the volume day and the intensity day.
    Yeah, logically there should be strength transfer between the 5rep and 1 rep strength increases, or in my case 5 rep and 3 rep. If one is going up but not the other, it would seem most likely to be an issue of left over fatigue from the last workout no?
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    PP, pg 184

    "......with PRs getting more difficult on Friday, what is needed to keep the cycle running for a few weeks is nothing more than a slight reduction in Monday's workload... The object is to make Monday's wo stressful enough to spur progress, not so stressful that it interferes with Friday's PR."
    Last edited by bango skank; 04-29-2007 at 06:45 AM.
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    Originally Posted by bango skank View Post
    PP, pg 184

    "......with PRs getting more difficult on Friday, what is needed to keep the cycle running for a few weeks is nothing more than a slight reduction in Monday's workload... The object is to make Monday's wo stressful enough to spur progress, not so stressful that it interferes with Friday's PR."
    We were discussing a different experience, where my Friday PR is increasing, but Monday is stalled
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    Originally Posted by Dave76 View Post
    Andalite, I really do respect your opinions but you have me confused here. No, I haven't talked to Mark about this and maybe you have.

    Just from a logical perspective, it seems to me that the sole purpose of a strength program is to get the strength up. I mean, if you're going to a PL event, the only thing that matters is your 1RM. It just seems to me that the 5X5 stuff would be meant to drive the 1RM up.

    It seems to me that they go hand in hand. You need to be moving up on both the volume day and the intensity day.
    Dave, i am not 100% sure of what i am saying because ive only run this program for 15 weeks. come next spring im gonna be doing this program again and perhaps at that time i will have a better grasp of things.

    i will tell u what i feel though.

    firstly everyone here (including me) is on the same page regarding the relation between monday and friday. yes if ur 5x5 max keeps increasing, the carryover on ur 1RM or 5RM is there. so techinically, if ur 5x5 max increases, so should ur 5RM.

    however, if lets say ur 5x5 max is not increasing while ur 5RM is, then it would mean exacly what Reformer said above: "it would seem most likely to be an issue of left over fatigue from the last workout no?" which i agree with 100%

    i am trying to explain my thoughts here and i dont know how to do it as effectively as i would like. lets say that during this program Reformer's 5RM goes from 200 to 300, ok? does that mean that his ACTUAL 5RM is that much? probably not. if he spends two weeks testing his maxes, his 5RM will actually be more than 300. assuming this, i said that if ur 5x5 max increases and ur 5RM doesnt, its fine because once u finish the program and u try maxing out for 2 weeks where u have 2 session both spaced 4-5 days after each other, i am sure ur 5RM will be much more. and reformer has told me he doesnt have time right now to do the program as well as he would like because of time constrictions which is why i said monday is more important - to him.

    am i making any sense, dave?
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    Originally Posted by Andalite View Post
    and reformer has told me he doesnt have time right now to do the program as well as he would like because of time constrictions which is why i said monday is more important - to him.

    am i making any sense, dave?
    But I want to Bench two plates!!!!

    Seriously though, I see what you're saying.

    I may be overanalyzing, but Monday's short comings may be due to form degenerating as the sets/reps go by and I get tired. I don't mean the "major things," but I realize that I have trouble keeping tension in my lats, driving with my legs, and trying to pull the bar apart- although I do keep the same bar path eyes focused on ceiling, shoulders pinched and back arched.
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    Originally Posted by ReformingBB View Post
    We were discussing a different experience, where my Friday PR is increasing, but Monday is stalled
    PP, pg. 186

    "If actual regression occurs... with staleness carrying over into Monday, then usually the workload on Monday is too high, and residual unrecovered fatigue is creeping in. Possible solutions could be to drop a set or two from the sets across, reduce the workset weight, or reduce the reps in the workset-- from 5 sets of 5 with 300 pounds to 5 sets of 3 with 300, for example."
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    Originally Posted by ReformingBB View Post
    I don't mean the "major things," but I realize that I have trouble keeping tension in my lats, driving with my legs, and trying to pull the bar apart- although I do keep the same bar path eyes focused on ceiling, shoulders pinched and back arched.
    what are your troubles with the leg drive? Are your feet coming off the floor or something?
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  30. #330
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    Originally Posted by ReformingBB View Post
    If one is going up but not the other, it would seem most likely to be an issue of left over fatigue from the last workout no?
    Out of curiousity, what are your rest times like on your 5X5 work? Also, what are the poundages you're using for your 5X5 work, and what's your current 3RM?
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