Carb Cycling vs Cutting & Bulking

[muruku]

Fugi, how many calories were you cutting on again? 1000?

And what's your rate of weight loss? How is your performance in the gym?

[Budjola]

carb up day today, im gonna aim for 250-300g. ill try to get all the carbs from beans, lentils etc, i know im gonna be ripping my pants with farts by the end of the day but thats the price of glory.

[muruku]

I'm floating around 1000 to 1200. For some reason I focus on carbs

I try to keep my carbs under 150 on my lower days and close to 300 on my higher days. It's something you'll have to play with

How does this caloric intake allow for 300g of carbs?

[Mik3yp]

After trying various different methods for months at a time, I've come to the conclusion messing with carbs in any unique way is stupid. At least for me. I feel way better on following the 0.4-0.6xBW for fats and 0.8-1BW for protein and filling the rest with carbs. In the end there is such little difference if any at all when it comes to adding in all this different techniques for carbs.

[muruku]

Fuge there was a question raised earlier but dunno if you addressed it

in your approach what is your weekly calorie average vs your TDEE?

appears to be ~1600Cals.

I've been under 1200 calories since late October (5 days per week). It took sometime to adjust. March can't come soon enough.

No condition, just trying something different. Haven't lost much muscle. My protein intake is high but my energy levels are completely depleted. Breakfast: 1 cup of oats and a protein shake. Lunch: 1/3lb of sliced turkey, 1 slice of cheese on 2 pieces of 100% whole grain bread, Protein bar. Dinner: two small chicken breasts with broccolli. Late night, 1.5 scoop of protein powder and a cup of caffeine free green tea. Carb intake is floating around 150 grams Weekends are close to 2500 calories.

[TheFugitive]

appears to be ~1600Cals.

I'm under 1600 cals.

[muruku]

I'm under 1600 cals.

(1200 x 5 + 2500 x 2 ) / 7 =~1500ish rounded up to 1600.

what are your macros for 1200Cal days?

How much weight do you lose a week?

How's your performance in the gym?

[Tyler2106]

Stop relying on studies and start relying on yourself. I was surprised how quickly my body responded to lower carbs/higher fats. I talked about this months ago in another thread

This is why people shouldn't take you seriously.

I'm under 1600 cals.

This is more evidence you shouldn't be taken seriously and proof you have no idea what you're doing. No way you're seeing any results or progress while eating 1600 calories. If you're eating 1600 calories you'd be losing weight like crazy.

Please stop and think about the things you say before you post as it can misguide others who read your comments.

[Mrpb]

6", 220lb, claiming 13% bf, doing well on 1600 calories.... Perhaps OP is (/has been) using some supplements we can not talk about.

No judging anyone, just saying.

[TheFugitive]

6", 220lb, claiming 13% bf, doing well on 1600 calories.... Perhaps OP is (/has been) using some supplements we can not talk about.

No judging anyone, just saying.

Nope, the only thing I'm guilty of is proper timing!

[Mrpb]

Nope.

You could be right but as you know most people that have don't admit it, so effectively we know nothing.

And then there's the body fat estimate, which most people will generally underestimate.

[muruku]

You could be right but as you know most people that have don't admit it, so effectively we know nothing.

And then there's the body fat estimate, which most people will generally underestimate.

It just doesn't make sense. I wonder how much protein and fat he intakes on 1200cals

[EjnarKolinkar]

Sticks and stones...... And mirrors never lie.....

Strong contribution.

Switching from high carb/low fat to low carb/high fat decreases fat loss and leads to nitrogen loss, as shown in the recent metabolic ward study by Hall.

It takes longer to get properly adapted to a low carb/high fat diet.

http://ajcn.nutrition.org/content/ea...33561.abstract

Wasn't hall morbidly obese people with no resistance training and 100g protein intake per day? IDK could be confusing this with another study. How many carbs or fats are eaten day to day is not critical to fat loss. Nor is carb cycling. As I understand the study they don't feel long term any of it will matter, good, bad, or otherwise in terms of fat loss.

Compliance and performance will trump everything anyway.

It just doesn't make sense. I wonder how much protein and fat he intakes on 1200cals

300x4=1200

So no fats or protein? IDK either I got lost on that part of the thrad too muruku

[Mrpb]

Wasn't hall morbidly obese people with no resistance training and 100g protein intake per day?

They were. They weren't resistance trained so probably didn't have much FFM.

What's interesting is the mechanism shown. Suddenly drop your carbs to 30 gram: increased nitrogen loss, decreased fat loss.

That's why I say if you're going to do keto better stick to it. If you're going to do carb cycling I'd keep eating carbs every day, just slightly adjust them to reflect expenditure somewhat. This way you won't have to go below ~100 grams.

Properly adapting to keto takes more than a week. By having low carb high fat days you're starting keto adaptation everytime but quitting too soon to reap any benefits.

[OT2000]

OP is notorious for these type of threads in the supp section. Take everything with a grain of salt. Does not believe in what science says and states his experience should suffice for others to follow suit even though it's determined that what he is saying isn't scientifically accurate. If you don't agree, th comments are always something dismissive of what you have to say or don't believe in studies or when you're ready to grow be like me ya da ya da

OP cut on 1200 calories and stated he lost fast and had no muscle loss. Uh huh
OP cut on now 1600 calories and stated he is losing fat due to carb cycling, or is it protein timing, or is it due to the anabolic window, or maybe BCAA's before bed and when he wakes up..I can go on.

[muruku]

it's just the bad math that irritates the fuk outta me.

[TheFugitive]

OP is notorious for these type of threads in the supp section. Take everything with a grain of salt. Does not believe in what science says and states his experience should suffice for others to follow suit even though it's determined that what he is saying isn't scientifically accurate. If you don't agree, th comments are always something dismissive of what you have to say or don't believe in studies or when you're ready to grow be like me ya da ya da

OP cut on 1200 calories and stated he lost fast and had no muscle loss. Uh huh
OP cut on now 1600 calories and stated he is losing fat due to carb cycling, or is it protein timing, or is it due to the anabolic window, or maybe BCAA's before bed and when he wakes up..I can go on.

I never said, no muscle loss. I said, minimal muscle loss. A low carb diet requires higher amounts of protein and fat to prevent muscle loss.

I look better today at 215 lbs vs last year at 215 lbs. This diet is no secret or nothing that I or bpi created.

[TheFugitive]

it's just the bad math that irritates the fuk outta me.

Look, we can argue numbers all day long. Try it for a month and see how you respond.

Try taking in 1500 calories four days a week and 2500 to 3000 calories three days a week. On larger muscle group days, (legs and back) make sure you're taking in higher calories.

[muruku]

Look, we can argue numbers all day long. Try it for a month and see how you respond.

Try taking in 1500 calories four days a week and 2500 to 3000 calories three days a week. On larger muscle group days, (legs and back) make sure you're taking in higher calories.

lol

215 lbs maintaining @ an average of ~2000 Cal/day

cool.

EDIT: 215lbs maintaining @ an average of 1600Cal/day

I'm floating around 1000 to 1200. For some reason I focus on carbs

I thought you said you were "floating" at around 1000-1200 Cals?

cmon at least get your story straight.

[TheFugitive]

lol

215 lbs maintaining @ an average of ~2000 Cal/day

cool.



I thought you said you were "floating" at around 1000-1200 Cals?

cmon at least get your story straight.

I said, YOU take in 1500 cals, 4 days a week. You're reading to fast. Focus muruku

[muruku]

I said, YOU take in 1500 cals, 4 days a week. You're reading to fast. Focus muruku

why should I take in 1500 cals? Makes no sense. That's just some number you threw out without taking into account my weight or activity levels. So even though I'm lighter than you, I should take in more cals than you?

lelz.

meh, I'm done here.

[klaximilian]

Stop relying on studies and start relying on yourself.

Strong LOL. Guys, guys...stop relying on science and start spreading the broscience.

Alrighty then.

[ErikTheElectric]

Cycling allows you cut and bulk in the same week. The process is slow but the results are better in the long run. Some people like the challenge of a cut and bulk. I find them mentally debilitating

You lost all (potential) credibility with this statement.

[Mrpb]

While TheFugitive posts a lot of stuff I don't agree with, the idea of eating high calories on lifting days (surplus) and low calories on rest days (deficit) isn't a strange one. I could see it work well.

Surplus calories are most useful around the workout and to fuel MPS subsequently. For a trained lifter MPS is almost back to normal in about ~12-16 hours. It doesn't make much sense to still eat a surplus 24 hours later (unless you're a beginner or underweight).

There are a few people who also recommend cycling surplus and deficit: Menno Henselmans, Martin Berkhan.

[badz1337]

While TheFugitive posts a lot of stuff I don't agree with, the idea of eating high calories on lifting days (surplus) and low calories on rest days (deficit) isn't a strange one. I could see it work well.

Surplus calories are most useful around the workout and to fuel MPS subsequently. For a trained lifter MPS is almost back to normal in about ~12-16 hours. It doesn't make much sense to still eat a surplus 24 hours later (unless you're a beginner or underweight).

There are a few people who also recommend cycling surplus and deficit: Menno Henselmans, Martin Berkhan.

Fair enough but I am confused now.
Say I am trying to slowly gain and I'm eating 200-250 surplus max each day..mostly 200, what is the point for me to eat that 200 and on the next day if I'm resting to lose them by eating 200 less o.0 ?

Also if I train 3 on, rest , 2 on, rest and many of my workouts happen at night due to different shifts at work , say Ive done training at 22;00 and next day is Thursday (rest day for me ).. do I really need that day on deficit for the sake of cycling and is it really my muscles wont care for that 200 surplus I could eat and still growing ?

Thanks for your answer in advance .

[Mrpb]

Fair enough but I am confused now.
Say I am trying to slowly gain and I'm eating 200-250 surplus max each day..mostly 200, what is the point for me to eat that 200 and on the next day if I'm resting to lose them by eating 200 less o.0 ?

Also if I train 3 on, rest , 2 on, rest and many of my workouts happen at night due to different shifts at work , say Ive done training at 22;00 and next day is Thursday (rest day for me ).. do I really need that day on deficit for the sake of cycling and is it really my muscles wont care for that 200 surplus I could eat and still growing ?

Thanks for your answer in advance .

Just focus on gaining ~2 pounds per month.

How you spread your calories over the week is up to you.

If (notice the if) your expenditure is significantly higher on training days it makes sense to eat more calories those days.

[badz1337]

So my TDEE is 2400 and I am usually eating 2600 regarding of rest days or active ones or sometimes 2650.
If I want to cycle surplus / deficit is it going to look like that:

Rest days - 2200
Training days - 2800

If this is the case I fail to see advantage since overall calories for a full month would be exactly the same.

What I see is :
Pros - Higher energy from higher surplus on training days.

Cons - At least for me it will be hard to often swapping a day with 2800 joyful calories for deficit one of 2.200, not like 2200 is so low but compared to say the previous day ... I will constantly feel like I am starting cut regime and will be hard for me since next day I eat big again .

Not actually sure if it is good to spike carb intake so many times in a given week without giving the body time to adjust to neither low or high regime how about bloats and retention ?

PS: Also gaining 2lbs pretty hard since this is less than a kg.. my water retention from time to time is more than this and i could pretty easly get confused how much is water and how fast actually i am gaining actual weight therefore please can you give me roughly daily calorie surplus for 2lbs month ? That way at least i know that there is no way i am over eating or gaining 2 fast.

[Mrpb]

^ you're unnecessarily over complicating this.

Just spread your calories the way YOU think is best for you.

To get the fluctuations out of your weight calculate a moving average or use the app Happy Scale.

[Tyler2106]

Strong LOL. Guys, guys...stop relying on science and start spreading the broscience.

Alrighty then.

Exactly. How can you take someone serious who makes statements like that.

While TheFugitive posts a lot of stuff I don't agree with, the idea of eating high calories on lifting days (surplus) and low calories on rest days (deficit) isn't a strange one. I could see it work well.

Surplus calories are most useful around the workout and to fuel MPS subsequently. For a trained lifter MPS is almost back to normal in about ~12-16 hours. It doesn't make much sense to still eat a surplus 24 hours later (unless you're a beginner or underweight).

There are a few people who also recommend cycling surplus and deficit: Menno Henselmans, Martin Berkhan.

He's averaging 1600 calories a day. I could be wrong, but I'm not sure anyone who is an advocate of carb cycling would say a 215 lbs person should be eating 1200 calories on off days and 2500 on workout days.

[Mrpb]

He's averaging 1600 calories a day. I could be wrong, but I'm not sure anyone who is an advocate of carb cycling would say a 215 lbs person should be eating 1200 calories on off days and 2500 on workout days.

Yeah I've already commented on that before.