Back squat vs. front squat

[jeffnc]

I'm a 54 y.o. soccer player who had complicated achilles surgery 1.5 years ago. My recovery was difficult but as part of my rehab, I got into some new exercises such as free weight squats. My trainer immediately put me into front squats without really asking first, which in hindsight makes sense since my upper body is not particularly strong or flexible (he showed me the cross grip). When trying to do a back squat on my own, it causes me a lot of discomfort in my wrists, arms and shoulders.

My question is this - it seems to me that your back wouldn't get as strong in the front squat since the angle is so vertical. Am I worrying about something I shouldn't be, or should I be looking to get some device to help with the grip? Such as a manta ray or sting ray device, or one of the bars made for loading up back squats on your shoulders and neck (I don't have enough posts to show links, but I think you know what I mean.)

[XXXaman]

Yes, you're overthinking.

Both front/back squats works your back as a secondary muscle, you should only not do it if you feel pain, if you're having some difficult on it, try to lower the weight.

[k9pit]

Front squats work the hell out of your spinal erectors (and lower traps) once the weight starts getting heavy, especially if you are doing the cross arm grip for multiple reps.

You will have to fight to keep the vertical position with your back and core. It amounts to a continuous static hold throughout the set.

[Garage Rat]

Your back has to be strong for both types of squats regardless of what you may think.
Maintaining a fairly upright position in the front squat requires a strong back to do so.
If you want to do the back squat your trainer needs to work with you on shoulder and thoracic mobility and flexibility in those areas.

[davisj3537]

You're probably just putting the bar in the wrong spot. You don't even need your hands on the bar to do a properly executed high bar back squat OR a front squat.

Front squats work the back pretty damn well.

[jeffnc]

You're probably just putting the bar in the wrong spot. You don't even need your hands on the bar to do a properly executed high bar back squat OR a front squat.

Well, there is no way I'm doing squats without putting my hands on the bar.

Front squats work the back pretty damn well.

OK.

[Big Nes]

rear squats will probably require a little more dorsiflexion (ankle flexion) at depth, and that can put extra stress on your surgically repaired achilles. So stretch and warm-up always.

Front squats are more upright, so the achilles won't stretch as much. The trick is remaining upright for rear squats. This requires some serious gluteus activation, proper lumbar support (abs/obliques and belt) and thoracic extension, so go light and practice holding a squat at depth. See what fails first. Your body is always going to try to compensate somehow, and that'll be the weakness you need to improve.

[davisj3537]

Well, there is no way I'm doing squats without putting my hands on the bar.

And I'm not suggesting that you do, but the point is that you shouldn't be supporting the bar with your hands. This is why your wrists, elbows and shoulders are hurting. This makes me think that you aren't placing the bar in the correct spot on your back...if you were then you wouldn't have to support the bar with your hands.

Hope that makes sense.

[jeffnc]

It makes sense, but I'm not "supporting" the bar with my hands. The mere act of placing my hands on the bar in the correct place just hurts my wrists, elbows and shoulders. The regular grip ("clean" grip) for the front squat hurts too, which is why I'm doing the cross hand grip. I'm just not flexible enough. It hurts before I even lift the weight off the catch. Younger people take so much for granted, lol But actually I've never been very flexible. Yoga is outrageously hard. I work at it though, but there are only so many hours in a day.

I'm not saying I can't improve, but unless and until that happens I'm looking for alternatives.

[davisj3537]

It makes sense, but I'm not "supporting" the bar with my hands. The mere act of placing my hands on the bar in the correct place just hurts my wrists, elbows and shoulders. The regular grip for the front squat hurts too, which is why I'm doing the cross hand grip. I'm just not flexible enough. It hurts before I even lift the weight off the catch. Younger people take so much for granted, lol But actually I've never been very flexible. Yoga is outrageously hard. I work at it though, but there are only so many hours in a day.

I'm not saying I can't improve, but unless and until that happens I'm looking for alternatives.

I could see that I guess if your joints are abnormally stiff. The wider your grip the less stress on the joints. Go as wide as the rack if needed. You'll lose a little upper back tightness widening your grip, but at the expense of a more comfortable squat, which in your case sounds like something you need.

[jeffnc]

Well, there is this

breakingmuscle.com/uk/strength-conditioning/why-your-hand-position-is-hurting-your-squat-and-how-to-fix-it

From what I've read and what my trainer said, these sorts of problems are pretty common.

[davisj3537]

Seems like a very in depth explanation of what I just typed, though that seems completely pointed at people with good shoulder mobility and yours is seemingly terrible. lol. Hopefully widening your grip solves your problem man. Good luck and if you still have issues after playing around then post a video of your squat.

[jeffnc]

I think what I was getting at is that
a) he recognizes that a significant number of people have an issue with flexibility with the standard setup position
b) he thinks you should *not* widen your grip, because of the problems that he points out.

I'm obviously no expert, just trying to fit all the pieces together that I hear about. My trainer moved out of state by the way, so I may have to find someone new.

I have been experimenting with much lower weight and I was able do a back squat with the standard position and not as much discomfort as I remember, so maybe I'll be able to "stretch" into this over time. I definitely can't do the front squat with the standard grip and my elbows high, but I hope to do some combination of both front and back squats.

[TJP33]

possibly invest in a yoke bar.. Ask gym owners to purchase, or get your own.
When younger I was a small gym that allowed us to throw some of our personal equipment that would be a pain to transport everyday in a closet.

As far as front squats go- straps actually helped me out a lot- Id loop the strap around the bar instead of around my wrist as they would normally go, put bottom of strap between pinky and ring finger, twist wrist to loop around remaining fingers so bar would actually hang from hands before resting across the top of chest. If Im doing front squats its a higher rep lift for me 12-20reps, never test with what Id consider heavier loads.

[jeffnc]

Regular gyms here do not have/allow free weight squat racks. Smith machine is as far as they'll go. I'm sure I could pay more to get the full deal - there are Cross Fit gyms, after all. But that kind of training is expensive and my gym is only $10/mo. My rehab was covered by insurance, and that's over at this point. So, I invested in a used squat rack for my home. That stung a little, but I think it's worth it.

I think the straps for the front squat might be a good option for me. Maybe a yoke later. I've never used one, but the concept sure seems beautiful to me.

[PBnJay]

The wider your grip the less stress on the joints.

Granted, everyone is immobile in their own way, but I get extreme pain when my wrists radially deviate, so I squat with a very narrow grip to 'relieve' the stress on my wrists. idk, works well for me. Of course shoulder issues could prevent that.

[BG5150]

Regular gyms here do not have/allow free weight squat racks. Smith machine is as far as they'll go. I'm sure I could pay more to get the full deal - there are Cross Fit gyms, after all. But that kind of training is expensive and my gym is only $10/mo. My rehab was covered by insurance, and that's over at this point. So, I invested in a used squat rack for my home. That stung a little, but I think it's worth it

So you only have access to a Smith machine? You need to move.

[jeffnc]

So you only have access to a Smith machine? You need to move.

Well, like I said, I have the squat rack and weights in my house now, so I can do it any time I like. As I read this thread, I can just walk over and try something

[davisj3537]

Granted, everyone is immobile in their own way, but I get extreme pain when my wrists radially deviate, so I squat with a very narrow grip to 'relieve' the stress on my wrists. idk, works well for me. Of course shoulder issues could prevent that.

Interesting. Thanks for sharing.