Overtraining: What it is and what it isn't. And why you've stalled.

[rory1]

I've been plateaued for a while now. Should i "deload" for 1 week or 2 weeks?

[bradicalONE]

I've been plateaued for a while now. Should i "deload" for 1 week or 2 weeks?

One week seems to work, if not, next time around make it two weeks. Don't make the same mistake I did for two years... thought i would train harder then the week before and working out 5-6 days a week, and made almost no gains!

Probably the best thread on this for the biggest mistake weight lifters make.

[dissolved]

I'm starting to deload, but my goal is to bulk up for now, show I still be intaking a lot of calories for the bulking state in my deloading weeks?

[drewdrewdrew]

Those are really kick ass numbers for someone on Starting Strength. Around here, you'll usually see someone moving on to something else before they get even close to how strong you are. So, good job.

What I would do, frankly, is change things up. Even if the other lifts haven't stalled, I'd say your body could probably use the break. I'd do two things.

First, reset the whole program, squats, bench, deads, the works. Back 20-30 pounds.

Second, I would start alternating between sessions devoted to 3X5 based volume/workload, and sessions devoted to 5RM intensity. That alone will probably get you another 10-20% of gains. SO keep everything basically the same, same structure you're using now, just change up how you attack each session just a bit.

That and the reset and you should come back with a vengance.

Also, if youy weight has stalled, it's probably partly related to calorie intake. Having gone up 10LBS, and with how strong you are and how much work your doing, you probably could use a small calorie bump.

Hi VikingMan, I know this post was a while back, but when you mention:
I would start alternating between sessions devoted to 3X5 based volume/workload.

Do you mean 3sets of 5reps?

Also what does 5RM mean?

I love this thread, reps all round!! Thx u so much i have learn t so much from reading through it, haven't finished just yet!!

THX!

[sicofthis]

Great post I learned alot.

[ramboris]

visit my thread for more info on mass building and overtraining:

http://forum.bodybuilding.com/showth...hp?t=114002681

[zephed56]

Bump because of the rampant misuse of the term overtraining in this forum.

PSA: Overtraining vs Stupid Programming
Just because your program is designed poorly and has you doing too much, does not mean you are "overtraining". It is simply "stupid programming". Yeah, you are probably doing more work than you can recover from before your next workout, but that is not overtraining, that is called "you're still recovering because you did so much work in one session, stupid". Overtraining has nothing to do with the effects of one singular workout, and everything to do with accumulated/residual fatigue built up from your previous months or weeks of training. It takes a lot of hard ass work to get there.

There is always a period of decreased performance following a workout, it may take only 2 days or it may take more, depending on how much work you did. Don't confuse this period with overtraining. It is just your body recovering from the previous session and is normal. So if you're having trouble recovering between sessions, you need to reorganize your training schedule or adjust the volume or intensity down a tad so you can actually recover for the next session.

This bumped thread is in the stickies, which many of you obviously never bother to read and instead post "critique my workout donkdonkdonk" or "need a new routine!lolazr". Cut that **** out and do some reading.

Moral of the story: Overtraining is srs bizness. It takes a lot of hard demanding work over a long period of time. You feel like ****, fear creeps in, you're intimidated, you don't sleep well, you feel awful. It is not too many sets of curls in one day.

[LikeAMachine]

This is really good stuff. Thank you

[rock201]

Good stuff

[aruss87]

woooooow...

kinda wierd. i'll definitely use this!!
thanks.

[rassno]

repped and bump.

Excellent points bought up about recognizing overtraning and the difference between that and 'over reaching'. Over training f*cks with everything.

Best ways I've noticed and have been told to recognize over training are: stress levels-if you find people piss you off, your partner seems to really be getting under your skin, you can't get anything to work the way you want it to, then cortisol is incredibly high in your system. High cortisol levels are cause buy many factors however CNS not getting enough rest is one of the biggest. Also, sudden drastic changes in what and how much you want to eat. If suddenly your appetite becomes one carrot stick from 5-6 healthy meals or 15+ meals from 5-6 then your body is totally and utterly confused about what is happening and switches into "survival" mode.

[KozzaFrenzy]

This thread definitely needs a bump!

[tomac013]

Got the link to this thread in my email today.
Only signed up on here a few weeks ago.
Wish I had this information a few years ago when I gave up because of no gains!!!
Great info throughout. Thanks guys. Viking.

[jlips1]

ok well I am someone out there who took the time to read it...im not a huge kid...5'10 195...but im getting there...and im about to start an activate extreme + xfactor + creatine stack...somewhere in the next 14 days...ive taken like 4-5 days off sometimes but never a solid deload...im due for a 5 day off cycle...would taking a week deload be especially beneficial because im about to start a new supplement/workout? I always say to my friends who see that i got big that sometimes the hardest part about getting big is your willingness to take days off and rest...because ur gna love lifting so much taking days off are the worst...so would you recommend i deload and then start the stack and get right back into it?

[Koaia]

ok well I am someone out there who took the time to read it...im not a huge kid...5'10 195...but im getting there...and im about to start an activate extreme + xfactor + creatine stack...somewhere in the next 14 days...ive taken like 4-5 days off sometimes but never a solid deload...im due for a 5 day off cycle...would taking a week deload be especially beneficial because im about to start a new supplement/workout? I always say to my friends who see that i got big that sometimes the hardest part about getting big is your willingness to take days off and rest...because ur gna love lifting so much taking days off are the worst...so would you recommend i deload and then start the stack and get right back into it?

Whether or not you should deload has more to do with your training than supplementation. If you've been training hard for a while and are feeling worn down, a deload might be in order. But scheduling your deload according to your new supplement stack would be pointless.

[brazucac89]

i have a question on the subject...
i been doing SS for 9 weeks now.. my squats are at 265 now.. and its feeling really heavy.. thinking of deloading by 20%.. since my squats are near stall.. will my other lifts suffer too? i mean, should i just deload everything all at once?.. my bench is at 185 and i feel like it could go up for a couple weeks..same with my rows as well.. so will deloading only the lift that is suffering enough for my CNS? or would it be better to go into a full deload week with all lifts?

note: i havent deloaded at all in the 9 week period..my died is at its best.. have been seeing linear progress and weight gains.. getting full 8 hours of sleep everyday.. im currently 4 weeks into creatine, and will take a 2 week off from use of this.. been taking jack3d for 3 weeks..

thank you

[DigitalSpeed]

So your chest isn?t growing like you want it to, or your bench isn?t going up anymore, or your squat has stalled. Why?

Here is one of the most common reasons why, other than diet.

CNS fatigue. Unless your diet just sucks balls, the answer is usually that you don't understand fatigue, what it does to progress, and what to do about it.

Get this, because the solution to your problems WILL involve this concept one way or another.

Think of CNS fatigue as water and as yourself as a bucket. When you lift heavy weights, it's basically like taking a cup of water, and pouring it into the bucket. The size of the cup is how strong you are coupled with how much work you do. When you sleep and eat right, you open up a temporary hole in the bottom of the bucket. Now. The stage is set.

Take this example, and imagine what happens as you continue lifting weight on a frequent basis, slowly getting bigger and stronger. Your decent sleep and eating habits allow you to empty the bucket of the fatigue you've accumulated because the cup you've been using to fill the bucket is pretty small. But now you're stronger and can do more work, and the cup is bigger. The bucket fills itself faster than you can empty it. And eventually, it's too full. What happens when the bucket is too full? Simple. The fatigue spills over, inhibiting performance in the gym. Boom. Automatic plateau halting your progress just as sure as the sun will rise tomorrow. Why the plateau? Because of accumulated CNS fatigue that you can't get rid of.

So. What do you do about it? Chances are VERY good that you have the genetic potential to reach whatever goal you?re shooting for, unless you?re already quite advanced, at which point, some realism might be a healthy thing. How do you get there when the CNS fatigue induced by the weight you?re using is halting your progress?

Again, the answer is simple. The answer gets into the different rates at which fatigue and fitness dissipate. All this time while you've been lifting weights, accumulating fatigue, you have ALSO been accumulating fitness, in the form of bigger and stronger muscles. The CNS fatigue has halted your progress however, so the fitness is temporarily stalled. If you were to do something that would temporarily decrease the size of the cup, what would happen? The fatigue would dissipate, right? Well, wouldn't the fitness likewise dissipate? Actually, NO, it would not, at least, not at first. So, how do we use a smaller cup? Perform less work, for a limited period of time. This allows the fatigue to dissipate, because fatigue dissipates FASTER than fitness, good thing too.

Result... dual factor theory. CNS fatigue and fitness dissipate at different rates. If you deload, or start using a smaller cup for a short period of time, the CNS fatigue will dissipate quickly, while the fitness won't really dissipate at all. Thus, your CNS is now fresh, and progress can once more take place.

So what do you do? You deload. Deloading is just drastically cutting the amount of work you perform. You can do this in several ways.

1. Cut sets and/or reps, use same weight.

2. Cut weight, use same sets and/or reps.

3. Both

I like to cut sets and use the same weight. My primary concern is getting stronger, so I'd rather keep the intensity high, but just do less work with it.

So, if you normally do 10 sets for chest, for example, do 2 or 3 for a period of one to two weeks. OR, if you?re still relatively weak, just do a reset. Drop weight by 20-30 pounds, and work back up to your current maxes over a period of 3-4 weeks using the same set/rep scheme.

Do this with ALL the work you do in the gym. This will allow the fatigue to dissipate. Once the deload is over, resume normal training. Your fresh CNS will now allow you to get stronger because it can now perform at full capacity again.

In terms of timeframes involved, the stronger you are, the faster the bucket fills up. An advanced lifter moving big poundages will be ready to deload after only 3-4 weeks. It's the primary reason why progress gets progressively harder as you get stronger. A weaker lifter will take longer to fill his bucket, but as soon as he crosses a threshold, he WILL fill it with any kind of serious work in the gym.

Also, there are things you can do to make the hole in your bucket bigger. Eat better, sleep better, reduce stress in your life, take your vitamins, improve your conditioning with cardio, get laid once in a while. Stuff like that.

BUT, don't let anyone make you believe that overtraining is a myth. It's simply a matter of time before heavy weight training puts you there. Not that you shouldn?t do all you can to increase the size of the hole in your bucket, but if you don't learn how to deal with fatigue, you'll become a "critique my workout" thread starting zombie, perpetually wondering why you can't make any progress, looking everywhere you can for the next magic workout program to "shock your muscles into growth", buying hundreds of dollars worth of supplements each month thinking they are actually the answer. Funny. All you really needed was to learn how and when to take one step back, so you could take five steps forward.

AND THEN...

This is also one of the primary reasons why guys prematurely turn to steroids, unless their just stupid and start using them right off the bat because they think it's the only way to grow muscle. They stall and think they need something special to help them continue making progress. Will the steroids do it? Absolutely. Because they generally have the affect of increasing your recovery capacity. The real kicker is, the results they achieved throughout their early use of steroids could have easily been achieved without the gear, if they had simply understood fatigue. How foolish is that?

Man, I've been having shoulder problems (pretty bad pain, can barely keep it together) for the past three weeks (front delts) and I LOVE working shoulders. It stops about a half hour after I'm done with shoulders. I took a week off shoulders and it still occurred. This sounds like what the cause of my problem might be. Even if it's not- this is great info! I knew a little about recovery but I had no idea about deloading/resetting. Thanks for the info!

[BallAllDay]

i'm currently bulking, would in be eating at maintainence during my deload week?

[codydalla]

im a gemini, so **** routine!

ill do my drag curls 3 days a week, then do chest and legs only. i wish i could do a routine. i eat healthy, but i switch my healthy foods around. photos one week, yams the next, then kiwi only lol. then meat for a week, im random xD