Lets just be honest. PEScience has the best protein on the market today.

[ILPump]

I don't know about you guys but I find this kinda funny PES and USP Labs both share the same graph for their creatine. I said this before USP owns PES and that's why I won't purchase any of their protein powders. If you don't believe check their websites.

[bencarpenter]

I don't know about you guys but I find this kinda funny PES and USP Labs both share the same graph for their creatine. I said this before USP owns PES and that's why I won't purchase any of their protein powders. If you don't believe check their websites.

You are incorrect.

Basically what happened here is we saw the bar graph of an image we thought was a good explanation and sent it to our graphics team to design something similar.

They used the same numbers and the graphs look almost exactly the same, as you can see.

We have collaborated with USP in the past following the success of the original Get Up And Go stack (Alpha-T2 and OxyElite Pro) which sold like hotcakes. The stack did so well we ran a few others down the line and had a good working relationship.

However, they do not own us and we have no shared ownership.

I have said this numerous times in the past. This is simply us using a graph of theirs because it looked good which our graphics team replicated far too similarly lol.

Our protein is trustworthy and is one of a few brands which has true third party testing results published which not only verified we hit label claims but also that Select is free from amino acid fillers.

I know people love a good conspiracy theory but I have worked in the company for five years and can assure you that there simply isn't one.

[eatyourspinach]

I don't know about you guys but I find this kinda funny PES and USP Labs both share the same graph for their creatine. I said this before USP owns PES and that's why I won't purchase any of their protein powders. If you don't believe check their websites.

I think that was less of a coincidence than the aegeline debacle lol.

[ILPump]

You are incorrect.

Basically what happened here is we saw the bar graph of an image we thought was a good explanation and sent it to our graphics team to design something similar.

They used the same numbers and the graphs look almost exactly the same, as you can see.

We have collaborated with USP in the past following the success of the original Get Up And Go stack (Alpha-T2 and OxyElite Pro) which sold like hotcakes. The stack did so well we ran a few others down the line and had a good working relationship.

However, they do not own us and we have no shared ownership.

I have said this numerous times in the past. This is simply us using a graph of theirs because it looked good which our graphics team replicated far too similarly lol.

Our protein is trustworthy and is one of a few brands which has true third party testing results published which not only verified we hit label claims but also that Select is free from amino acid fillers.

I know people love a good conspiracy theory but I have worked in the company for five years and can assure you that there simply isn't one.

Do you expect us to believe that? You copied their graph, lol. Not to mention the formulas are identical minus the betaine

[ILPump]

I think that was less of a coincidence than the aegeline debacle lol.

Take a look at all the labels USP and PES, you can tell they were designed by the same person.

I've been through numerous tubs of PES and I enjoyed it but I find some of the similarities questionable.

[VO2Maxima]

[bencarpenter]

Do you expect us to believe that? You copied their graph, lol.

Whether you believe it or not is your choice and you are welcome to it.

It is however completely factual. We saw their graph and wanted to do something similar. It wasn't until you pointed this out that I realised they are almost identical which certainly wouldn't have been my preference if I had been the one instructing it.

Once again, whether you believe me or not is down to you. We had a good relationship with them for years which gave many people on this forum ammunition to be suspicious we shared ownership. I can say with certainty that we are our own separate company and any reason to be suspicious over Select protein is unfounded.

[ILPump]

Whether you believe it or not is your choice and you are welcome to it.

It is however completely factual. We saw their graph and wanted to do something similar. It wasn't until you pointed this out that I realised they are almost identical which certainly wouldn't have been my preference if I had been the one instructing it.

Once again, whether you believe me or not is down to you. We had a good relationship with them for years which gave many people on this forum ammunition to be suspicious we shared ownership. I can say with certainty that we are our own separate company and any reason to be suspicious over Select protein is unfounded.

Your digging deeper holes. I'll stop posting about this but please tell your graphic team to be careful in the future.

[bencarpenter]

Take a look at all the labels USP and PES, you can tell they were designed by the same person.

I've been through numerous tubs of PES and I enjoyed it but I find some of the similarities questionable.

With all due respect, I think you had an idea in your head which caused you to read into things.

I am partly involved in the label design process and I can honestly tell you that at no point have we shared around a USP Labs label image as something we wanted to take inspiration from. I hadn't ever even noticed something resembling a vague similarity when I saw their product images pop up on adverts on another forum I am on.

Generally speaking, we have product highlights in the top right (which they don't have), we have a flavouring image on our products as standard (which they don't have on most of theirs), they have a solid bar across the top of each label (which we don't have), they use the same colour scheme on each of their products (which we don't), we use an image of the pills on our capsule products as standard (which they don't).

Once again, you are making an accusation which is incorrect. I am one of a few people who gives feedback on label design.

Please stop which these false allegations, you just made me spend ten minutes switching between internet tabs on my phone so I could properly look at their product labels to examine what they actually looked like lol.

[ILPump]

With all due respect, I think you had an idea in your head which caused you to read into things.

I am partly involved in the label design process and I can honestly tell you that at no point have we shared around a USP Labs label image as something we wanted to take inspiration from. I hadn't ever even noticed something resembling a vague similarity when I saw their product images pop up on adverts on another forum I am on.

Generally speaking, we have product highlights in the top right (which they don't have), we have a flavouring image on our products as standard (which they don't have on most of theirs), they have a solid bar across the top of each label (which we don't have), they use the same colour scheme on each of their products (which we don't), we use an image of the pills on our capsule products as standard (which they don't).

Once again, you are making an accusation which is incorrect. I am one of a few people who gives feedback on label design.

Please stop which these false allegations, you just made me spend ten minutes switching between internet tabs on my phone so I could properly look at their product labels to examine what they actually looked like lol.

Let's talk about vanilla. You released your version the same time USP updated theirs and they're so close in flavor.

[AMeyer9]

Your digging deeper holes. I'll stop posting about this but please tell your graphic team to be careful in the future.

Lmao, unless there's a copyright on a horizontal bar graph with two colors and a gradient I see no issue.

If there is, thousands of companies are in trouble.

[ILPump]

Lmao, unless there's a copyright on a horizontal bar graph with two colors and a gradient I see no issue.

If there is, thousands of companies are in trouble.

They're identical and so are the formulas

[ILPump]

How long until the graph disappears from 1 of the sites?

[VO2Maxima]

They're identical and so are the formulas

Ergonine and ModernCREATINE?





I am legitimately confused.

[bencarpenter]

Your digging deeper holes. I'll stop posting about this but please tell your graphic team to be careful in the future.

I am not digging anything. You had some complaints and I have answered them all as honestly as possible.

I am not involved in the write up process and had no idea we shared a similar graph to them so when you pointed it out on here I sent some messages to find out what happened.

Someone who was involved in the write up saw their graph of the same ingredient and thought it was a good idea. He asked our graphics team to do something similar however he was supposed to make edits to it so it wasn't exactly the same.

The image came back and was used in the write up without anyone else actually that it was almost identical to that used in another company's write-up. His job was to source graphics for it and he made an individual error.

It was an error on his behalf and wasn't something I was aware of. I have personally never read the USP Labs write up for Modern Creatine.

The bar chart concept is very concise at demonstrating the point of the ingredient but it should never have been copied as it was. Whilst I agree with you on this it doesn't change the fact that we are not the same company and do not share ownership.

Let's talk about vanilla. You released your version the same time USP updated theirs and they're so close in flavor.

We have six Select flavours (seven if you count white chocolate mint as a seasonal release).

Vanilla is a staple flavouring in the protein powder world.

I have no idea when USP Labs changed their flavouring so can't comment on this. I didn't actually realise they changed their vanilla. I also don't know how it tastes.

However, if ours was released around a similar time, you will be able to find flavour reviews where we sent out several vanilla sachets to customers in a blind taste test (two were ours, the rest were competitor vanillas) months in advance of when we actually released Gourmet Vanilla.

You can literally find images on the forum of the several sample sachets we sent to a few selected individuals (Chef Bob was one who was on this forum as well as AM where he posted the image) way before our actual release date.

Edit; I just Googled 'USP Labs Modern Protein Vanilla' and according to Stack3d and Price Plow the teaser for it was released in February 2015. I sample tested our final batch of Gourmet Vanilla at the Olympia in September 2015 so the timelines aren't even close to matching up.

[bencarpenter]

Ergonine and ModernCREATINE?





I am legitimately confused.

I assume he meant TruCreatine.

Either way it is still incorrect because we only use creatine anhydrous and don't include betaine anhydrous like they do lol.

This is getting more and more tenuous.

[Driven2liftv2]

You think the latest USP vanilla is like Gourmet Vanilla?

they wish

But seriously, they don't taste alike, and none of ours taste like either release of theirs IMO

Their powder was even much small particle size, stuff was nothing like our protein upon examination.




This is a very old theory, and a very silly one.

[ILPump]

I assume he meant TruCreatine.

Either way it is still incorrect because we only use creatine anhydrous and don't include betaine anhydrous like they do lol.

This is getting more and more tenuous.

Until I pointed out this so called "error" no one had a clue. Lol. Both graphs show same percentage for percentage of EXACT same creatine. That's one hell of a mistake to make. Unless the "mistake" is coming from the same people.

[dougefresh93]

mak?

[bencarpenter]

Until I pointed out this so called "error" no one had a clue. Lol. Both graphs show same percentage for percentage of EXACT same creatine. That's one hell of a mistake to make. Unless the "mistake" is coming from the same people.

That is because someone in our team screwed up and approved a graphic which was an exact copy of another company's image lol.

You then said our labels are similar and I explained why they weren't even close.

You said they are designed by the same people and I explained how they can't be.

You then said our vanilla proteins were released around the same time and I showed you that they weren't (I was taste testing ours months after they had released theirs lol).

You then said we share the same formulas which again is incorrect.

Anything else?

[ILPump]

That is because someone in our team screwed up and approved a graphic which was an exact copy of another company's image lol.

You then said our labels are similar and I explained why they weren't even close.

You said they are designed by the same people and I explained how they can't be.

You then said our vanilla proteins were released around the same time and I showed you that they weren't (I was taste testing ours months after they had released theirs lol).

You then said we share the same formulas which again is incorrect.

Anything else?

Explain the ice cream? Guess I just keep a findin' more

[eatyourspinach]

Ooo I got one! Symplocos Racemosa!

[bencarpenter]

Explain the ice cream? Guess I just keep a findin' more

I am trying to remain helpful and polite but these are getting ridiculous.

With all due respect, I think you should have honoured your word when you said you weren't going to keep derailing this thread because your evidence is getting weaker and weaker.

Do you know why so many companies use photos of vanilla ice cream? Photos of actual vanilla pods don't look delicious. Therefore it is standard practice to use an image of ice cream or a milkshake. So much so that if you look at almost any whey protein or weight gainer in vanilla, you will almost always see a photo of ice cream or milkshake, nothing else.

Let me doing some quick Googling for you. All of the following products use images of either ice cream or a milkshake;
- BPI vanilla caramel
- Trutein vanilla
- Bodybuilding.com 100% Casein
- Dymatize Elite Gourmet
- BSN Syntha 6 Edge
- Labrada Lean Pro
- GAT Supertein
- USB Hyperbolic Mass

Etc etc

Once again, I actually helped pick the image we used on the Gourmet Vanilla Select. I could actually screenshot conversations we had when we compared images of milkshakes and ice creams to see which one looked best.

Once again, I will reiterate. You will not be able to prove we are the same company because we are NOT the same company. Sure, you can post whatever similarities you can find but you will not be able to prove it.

Take it from one of the longest running employees in the company who communicates with the CEO on a daily basis. If we were owned by another company don't you think I would want to know about it?

[dougefresh93]

Explain the ice cream? Guess I just keep a findin' more

that ice cream belongs to Chef Bob...

[bencarpenter]

that ice cream belongs to Chef Bob...

The USP Labs one?

Ours was a stock photo we purchased the rights to.

I still have the emails about photo selection from July last year despite it being several months after they released theirs.

Although around ten months between product launches is classed as at "the same time", apparently.

[dougefresh93]

The USP Labs one?

Ours was a stock photo we purchased the rights to.

I still have the emails about photo selection from July last year despite it being several months after they released theirs.

Although around ten months between product launches is classed as at "the same time", apparently.

i don't believe you, send me a 4 lbs tub to "test" and I'll report back.

[VO2Maxima]

Although around ten months between product launches is classed as at "the same time", apparently.

ModernPROTEIN doesn't even have that picture on it...it's ice cream floating in a milkshake. OxyElite Protein is their old protein. And while I actually do like ModernPROTEIN vanilla, it doesn't taste the same as Gourmet Vanilla.



Trolling is starting to get old...you're grasping at straws here.

[bencarpenter]

i don't believe you, send me a 4 lbs tub to "test" and I'll report back.

Seems reasonable.

Now you have changed ownership (or however it was structured) I will trade for any rainbow sherbet products since Vaughn teased me with a couple of delicious sample packets.

ModernPROTEIN doesn't even have that picture on it...it's ice cream floating in a milkshake. OxyElite Protein is their old protein. And while I actually do like ModernPROTEIN vanilla, it doesn't taste the same as Gourmet Vanilla.



Trolling is starting to get old...you're grasping at straws here.

I spent so long trying to diplomatically refute each point he brought up that I didn't even notice it was the old version lol.

That's what I get for engaging in online debates from my phone when I should be sleeping lol.

[Rob1882]

<marmite hater talk>

No Snickerdoodle no care breh

[BlueRev]

Usually supplements use the same studies. It's not too far out there that their graphs might look the same because of the same study.