Not liking Trump anymore....

[JediRN]

Bernie considers a snowball's chance in hell to be favorable odds compared to his.

I think Bernie may have a problem with math.

[bodyhard]

Bernie considers a snowball's chance in hell to be favorable odds compared to his.

I think you are misunderstanding what I am saying. I am not saying I think Bernie has a chance of becoming the POTUS, nor do I care if he makes it, I am merely saying I like him. I always said I did second to Trump, but now that Trump is becoming a weak Fck I am liking Bernie over him.

[DuracellBunny]

I think you are misunderstanding what I am saying. I am not saying I think Bernie has a chance of becoming the POTUS, nor do I care if he makes it, I am merely saying I like him. I always said I did second to Trump, but now that Trump is becoming a weak Fck I am liking Bernie over him.

Bernie can say whatever he likes, as he isn't going to get the nomination. I guarantee, that if he had the nomination, he would tone down the rhetoric and move towards the centre.

[anonymous]

I always said I did second to Trump, but now that Trump is becoming a weak Fck I am liking Bernie over him.

Bernie is a total Alpha Male in comparison to Trump

[ElrondHubbard]

Just curious, what would you define as a "decent" platform?

People who agree with me. It's at least a good start.

Heh! Well, that is a start, isn't it? Nobody would go with a party which has a platform that is contrary to their own philosophy. Would you?

The problem with third parties in general is that they seem to be single-issue focused. A lot of them are the brainchild of a single individual or small group, and reflect the narrow range of interests of that group. Here's a partial selection.
http://www.toptenz.net/top-10-politi...ted-states.php

I wanted to like the libertarians. I considered them pretty seriously. I do agree with their hands-off philosophy when it comes to individual rights, I think that's extremely important. I agree with them that government is too much like a many-tentacled octopus, latching on to too much of American society. However, I think they go way too far in the other direction, and the results of their control would end up undermining the very rights they claim to want to protect. Their government would be so weak that it would be unable to safeguard anyone's rights, and in its place they would raise an all-powerful corporate oligarchy that's far worse than the one we have now. Trading government masters, which you at least have a chance of defeating in elections, with corporate ones, over which you have no control at all, is not an improvement.

[bodyhard]

Bernie can say whatever he likes, as he isn't going to get the nomination. I guarantee, that if he had the nomination, he would tone down the rhetoric and move towards the centre.

If that is the case then the whole sh11t is weak as F'ck if you ask me.

[ElrondHubbard]

One can hope.

I hope not. I don't want to see the Republican party go away. I think we need more political parties, not fewer. I would like to see it get its act together and adopt more sanity and less demagoguery in its goals. The lack of real competition between political entities in this country is one reason, I think, that corruption has become so blatant and and pervasive between the two majors.

[DuracellBunny]

If that is the case then the whole sh11t is weak as F'ck if you ask me.

Politics is about telling people what you think will make them vote for you. There are two kinds of politicians, those who sell their souls and those who don't get elected.

[bodyhard]

Politics is about telling people what you think will make them vote for you. There are two kinds of politicians, those who sell their souls and those who don't get elected.

That's a sad situation all around. And to think people know this crap and still vote for said candidate, talk about insulting someone's intelligence....I can't even comprehend this..

[ElrondHubbard]

Well, that is the problem -- "decent" is highly subjective and one person's common sense ideas are viewed by others as an ideology of nutters. Given the rise of the outsiders during this election, clearly the time is ripe for a third party, but there doesn't seem to be many platforms that have any kind of broadbased appeal. Just curious, what would you define as a "decent" platform?

That's a sad situation all around. And to think people know this crap and still vote for said candidate, talk about insulting someone's intelligence....I can't even comprehend this..

The problem is that the known alternatives are even worse. Democracy only works when the electorate is educated, aware, relatively prosperous, and interested in it.

When you have ignorance, apathy, and poverty as your electoral base, good things are not likely to happen. There is an alternative, however.

[DuracellBunny]

That's a sad situation all around. And to think people know this crap and still vote for said candidate, talk about insulting someone's intelligence....I can't even comprehend this..

That is why voter turnout has been dropping. People have realised that the whole thing is a combination of American Idol, where everybody has a BS backstory to make them more likeable and an ugly baby contest.

Elections are the ultimate reality TV. They are just as compelling and just as "real". Unlike other reality tv shows, this one will actually affect your life.

[Brackneyc]

Heh! Well, that is a start, isn't it? Nobody would go with a party which has a platform that is contrary to their own philosophy. Would you?

Seems obvious, yet people still vote "against" candidates all the time. This calls into question whether or not they would cast a vote for someone whom doesn't, for the most part, have a platform they truly support.

I'm not suggesting we can ever be in 100% agreement with a candidate, but are there folks out there who will vote for DT or HC, yet claim to hate them and their platform. They are voting for the lesser of two evils.

We get what we deserve either way.

[paolo59]

It is the whole primary process. To get nominated a candidate, regardless of political party, has to appeal to the extremes of the party. The 'die-hard,' foaming at the mouth, get out and vote come hell or high water folks who make up the party base. Ha! It always makes for exaggerated promises, impossible proposed policy. Clinton has got to appear even farther 'left' than she actually is. Crazy Bernie has ensured that she does. LOL I have always suspected that there has been absolutely no love loss between Hillary and Obama. She trumpets his policies, to do otherwise is to alienate the African American vote that she is dependent upon. Trump is off the map. LOL How can you realistically appear to be farther 'right' than Ted Cruz?

Most folks just go to the movies and enjoy Star Wars. ROFL The folks primary presidential candidates have to persuade to vote for them are all the crazies who dress up like their favorite Star Wars characters and wander around in public, at wild-eyed fan conventions.

[ElrondHubbard]

Who would Yoda vote for?

[Corbi]

At the end of the day the important thing is to win the election, get in and then work on the agenda. Trump knows he needs to lure some of Bernies supporters over to his side in order to defeat the evil Hildebeast so he had to come back to a more centerist position. Doesn't mean his actual opinion or thoughts have changed at all because all politicians end up pandering to the groups they wish to win over.

[JediRN]

I hope not. I don't want to see the Republican party go away. I think we need more political parties, not fewer. I would like to see it get its act together and adopt more sanity and less demagoguery in its goals. The lack of real competition between political entities in this country is one reason, I think, that corruption has become so blatant and and pervasive between the two majors.

True, they just need better ideas. They keep talking about thier brand and their lift goals, which are so vague that nobody is against them. They just have no policy ideas.

That is why voter turnout has been dropping. People have realised that the whole thing is a combination of American Idol, where everybody has a BS backstory to make them more likeable and an ugly baby contest.

Elections are the ultimate reality TV. They are just as compelling and just as "real". Unlike other reality tv shows, this one will actually affect your life.

When a politician is required by their party to spend 30 hours a week raising money, you got a problem. They literally have no time to talk to each other, get to know each other as humans and Americans who all want the same big picture ideas.

Example. We all want Americans to feel safe in their homes. But what does that mean to different people? What is the best way to go about that? How many ways are their to go about that? Which are the most important single factors? What are the cheapest ways? Which really work? Why do some people want what they want? And on and on.

This isn't a thread derailment, just an example of how these simple concepts are really complex and need people in power to be able to know each other and talk to each other to understand each other. They need to invite each other for dinner and real stuff like that.

In b4 2nd Amendment replies.

Seems obvious, yet people still vote "against" candidates all the time. This calls into question whether or not they would cast a vote for someone whom doesn't, for the most part, have a platform they truly support.

I'm not suggesting we can ever be in 100% agreement with a candidate, but are there folks out there who will vote for DT or HC, yet claim to hate them and their platform. They are voting for the lesser of two evils.

We get what we deserve either way.

We the people are to blame. Making America Great Again requires billions of little acts by hundreds of millions of people everyday. This country wasn't designed to be harnessed by one person.

[Caesura75]

He's (Trump) on UK news today following disagreements with the new London mayor. He also went on to suggest that his relationship with David Cameron would be difficult.

And there lies my concern. Trump is like the unstoppable force and in many ways I have huge admiration for the way he's torn up the rule book. But should he become POTUS, I honestly believe that the US' relationship with allied nations will become damaged.

The irony of this is that disharmony amongst western countries will only serve as a token victory for the extremists that we're trying to protect ourselves from.

But at the end of the day, the presidency is none of my business. Over to you guys!

[Xscoot]

He's (Trump) on UK news today following disagreements with the new London mayor. He also went on to suggest that his relationship with David Cameron would be difficult.

And there lies my concern. Trump is like the unstoppable force and in many ways I have huge admiration for the way he's torn up the rule book. But should he become POTUS, I honestly believe that the US' relationship with allied nations will become damaged.

The irony of this is that disharmony amongst western countries will only serve as a token victory for the extremists that we're trying to protect ourselves from.

But at the end of the day, the presidency is none of my business. Over to you guys!

The more people like Cameron/Khan/Clooney talk bad about Trump the stronger he gets. And I get that, because it makes me want Trump to win despite them even though I don't think he will be a great President. And when all of them insult the intelligence of the American people by saying "I don't think Americans are stupid enough to vote him in" it pisses me off even more. Who is David Cameron to talk about anyone? The guy is as sleaze as you can get. Sadly the UK is becoming more symbolic then relevant.


Fxck Clooney Video

[thomashenry]

Aside form the Fact P.T Barnum would be Proud of Trump, IMO, the Only Reason Trump is the Actual Candidate for the Republican Nomination is that the Vast Majority of OLD Guard Status Quo boys in the Rep Party who steer the ship have been sitting around for the last 7+ years with their fingers up their arse pulling it out occasionally to see if it still smells, then reinsert it to know everything is fine ! in other words they have not done squat, Diinn do nuffin except put more embers on Rome, Gave Odumbo every single thing he wanted, never stood up for anything, tacit approval, budgets, legislation, Etc, watched & actively Participated in that Fundamental Transformation BS.

Then Trump appears along With Cruz, {whom the Republican Party Detests}, but Trump, he has, was and is saying up until 2 weeks ago the things unapologetically that People, a great many everyday people say and believe in many aspects, with no Filter and nothing hanging over him allegedly, being bought and paid for and beholden to the people on K Street, he is a Wild Card that may not be able to be corralled in the manner as usual Politics goes, Maybe, but that is why IMO he has got to where he is with truly no substantive plans in detail ! But as it goes Trump will be better {hopefully} for the United States than Hillary would ever be {talk about someone with no substance, aside from being a Narcissist }

[Flounderbout]

The more people like Cameron/Khan/Clooney talk bad about Trump the stronger he gets.

Well that is exactly Trump's approach. The more the "establish" inside or outside America reject him, the more appeal he has to the people that are supporting him. Cameron would never have said what he said if Trump had been perceived as anything other than a bad joke at the time. Now he looks like a real possibility for the White House, Cameron has been backtracking wildly, which is kind of embarrassing, but there we go.

People in the UK see the Trump thing at a very superficial level. They see him saying incredibly stupid things and they dismiss him accordingly. But unless they are taking a pretty active interest in the election (which the vast majority aren't), they don't appreciate that this is all part of a very carefully orchestrated approach by Trump, that is having exactly its desired effect.

A good insight into it here, I thought... http://www.theguardian.com/commentis...-left-demonise

[DuracellBunny]

A good insight into it here, I thought... http://www.theguardian.com/commentis...-left-demonise

Hang on just one minute. The Guardian said that somebody on the right isn't a bigot? This may be the beginning of the end of days.

[JediRN]

Well that is exactly Trump's approach. The more the "establish" inside or outside America reject him, the more appeal he has to the people that are supporting him. Cameron would never have said what he said if Trump had been perceived as anything other than a bad joke at the time. Now he looks like a real possibility for the White House, Cameron has been backtracking wildly, which is kind of embarrassing, but there we go.

People in the UK see the Trump thing at a very superficial level. They see him saying incredibly stupid things and they dismiss him accordingly. But unless they are taking a pretty active interest in the election (which the vast majority aren't), they don't appreciate that this is all part of a very carefully orchestrated approach by Trump, that is having exactly its desired effect.

A good insight into it here, I thought... http://www.theguardian.com/commentis...-left-demonise

Wasnt I just in a thread where the prevailing thought was that foreign governments don't respect Obama? Odd that a lot of those same file are here saying that foreign countries negative opinions of Trump is more a strength.

I'm confused, do we want foreign countries to respect our leaders or naw?

[Flounderbout]

Wasnt I just in a thread where the prevailing thought was that foreign governments don't respect Obama? Odd that a lot of those same file are here saying that foreign countries negative opinions of Trump is more a strength.

I'm confused, do we want foreign countries to respect our leaders or naw?

In the other thread the point was that people do not like being told what to do by foreign leaders, in that case Obama (Edit: my bad - that was a different thread). Frankly I would not expect most US voters' choice to be in the slightest bit influenced by what the UK public or leadership thought of their candidates, and fair enough too. I certainly wouldn't give a ch1t who an American told me I should vote for.

I would say that in the main Obama is widely respected in the UK, but that is largely because at the time he took office there was huge anti-Bush sentiment over here (largely as a result of the Second Gulf snafu). But that respect was and is not based on his politics - most people in the UK wouldn't even be able to tell you whether he was a Republican or a Democrat, or what the different politics of those two parties was. Ignorance of foreign matters is not unique to Americans as it turns out.

[Xscoot]

Wasnt I just in a thread where the prevailing thought was that foreign governments don't respect Obama? Odd that a lot of those same file are here saying that foreign countries negative opinions of Trump is more a strength.

I'm confused, do we want foreign countries to respect our leaders or naw?

You want Russia and China to respect you. You want the Middle East Countries to fear you and the rest don't really matter. Russia and China don't respect Obama, the Middle East don't fear him and the rest don't matter.

[Flounderbout]

Hang on just one minute. The Guardian said that somebody on the right isn't a bigot? This may be the beginning of the end of days.

I know right? But then you know what they say:

[dbx]

........... - most people in the UK wouldn't even be able to tell you whether he was a Republican or a Democrat, or what the different politics of those two parties was. Ignorance of foreign matters is not unique to Americans as it turns out.

Reading the posts that you (Brits) post here, there is no doubt that our citizenry aren't much different at all. The average citizen in the U.S. (college students included) can't tell you who the VP of our country is, let alone, Sec. of State, etc... And if you asked them who the last 3 presidents were? Crickets are all you will hear. Ask them the capitals of our states? Forget it! It's pathetic. These were basic things that I learned in elementary school

I suspect it's not much different in the UK? It might just be me, but I don't think it used to be this way for either of us. There are always people who aren't "plugged in", but that number seems to have grown exponentially. How do you UK people (here on this site) see it? (sincere question)

[Flounderbout]

I suspect it's not much different in the UK? It might just be me, but I don't think it used to be this way for either of us. There are always people who aren't "plugged in", but that number seems to have grown exponentially. How do you UK people (here on this site) see it? (sincere question)

I don't know. I'd like to say that education has gone to the dogs, everyone is stupid these days, and that politics is now just a ridiculous popularity contest which people no longer understand. But I suspect that is what every old man ever has said, in every decade, for all eternity.

So I will just point out that the British like to be terribly condescending about the "ignorance" of Americans when it comes to foreign geography, political affairs etc. But most of them have no knowledge of American geography at all (you have States or something, right? ), and less knowledge about American politics.

[dbx]

I don't know. I'd like to say that education has gone to the dogs, everyone is stupid these days, and that politics is now just a ridiculous popularity contest which people no longer understand. But I suspect that is what every old man ever has said, in every decade, for all eternity.

There is much truth in that

So I will just point out that the British like to be terribly condescending about the "ignorance" of Americans when it comes to foreign geography, political affairs etc. But most of them have no knowledge of American geography at all (you have States or something, right? ), and less knowledge about American politics.

You guys don't have a monopoly on "condescending" . And yes, we have "states. According to Obama, we have 57 .

I also know that betting on U.S. elections is a huge thing there. LOL, even bigger than Las Vegas scale betting. I would also admit that since we are the U.S., after all (meant sarcastically), we don't pay attention to much outside of our country. I'm always aware of who your PM's are ...and perhaps a few issues that they're struggling with....but not much else, in all honesty. And unlike "most" Americans, I do NOT watch local news, only national/world news. I'm always more interested in world affairs than I am in a local couple finding their lost dog after he's been missing for 6 months. But that's just me.

[DuracellBunny]

I don't know. I'd like to say that education has gone to the dogs, everyone is stupid these days, and that politics is now just a ridiculous popularity contest which people no longer understand. But I suspect that is what every old man ever has said, in every decade, for all eternity.

I think that there has been an actual change with the advent of the information age. Now that any information that people want is available on their phones, they don't seem to bother learning anything or holding it in their heads.

The only thing that I can think of to compare it to is how often I went to the theatre when I lived in zone 2. Being a short trip from theatre land and knowing it was there any time I wanted, I actually went to the theatre less than when I had to travel in from outside of London.

[dbx]

I think that there has been an actual change with the advent of the information age. Now that any information that people want is available on their phones, they don't seem to bother learning anything or holding it in their heads.

Wasn't sure how to adequately tie it in, but I agree. There is much truth in the "old man" statement, but public ignorance seems to have increased markedly, "old man" syndrome aside.