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Thread: Sulbutiamine

  1. #1
    Registered User bigswole30's Avatar
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    Sulbutiamine

    I have been reading about this morning. I am wondering if any products has this as one of the ingredients. It sounds like it would compliment some type of thermo/energy product or maybe a preworkout bcaa formula.

    Supposedly it increased energy, focus and sleep patterns. This would be great in a fat-loss product b/c it does this without any stimulatory effect.
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  2. #2
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    Surprise, surprise. VPX is releasing a hydration drink that will have sulbutiamine. This was not a VPX plug I just read about it helping my GF with chemistry.
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  3. #3
    C6H13NO2 pu12en12g's Avatar
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    I hate to bump this... but it was the only Sulbutiamine thread ? WTF ?

    Any feedback from forum vets on this stuff as a standalone ?
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    same stuff in biotest spike i believe.

    Ive used the raw powder aswell. It def. does something, you have to try it out to get your own experience from it. Ive noticed strong effects from it, strong energy boost, concentration, more intensity in gym. Kind of like your a machine.
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    Originally Posted by Mike83
    same stuff in biotest spike i believe.

    Ive used the raw powder aswell. It def. does something, you have to try it out to get your own experience from it. Ive noticed strong effects from it, strong energy boost, concentration, more intensity in gym. Kind of like your a machine.
    Biotest spike is quite comparable to amphatemines. Except its not addictive and gives a cleaner buzz.
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  6. #6
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    Sulbutiamine is an analogue of Vitamin B1
    Specials & insider info
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  7. #7
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    Originally Posted by CONTROLLED LABS
    Sulbutiamine is an analogue of Vitamin B1
    Yep
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    It is in Omega Power Jolt and in bulk for those who know where to look.
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    Originally Posted by pu12en12g
    I hate to bump this... but it was the only Sulbutiamine thread ? WTF ?

    Any feedback from forum vets on this stuff as a standalone ?
    THe search must still be broken...there are quite a few threads for the newer Power Jolt w/Sulbutiamine.
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  10. #10
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    Originally Posted by pu12en12g
    Yep
    haha, i just like to state the obvious
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  11. #11
    C6H13NO2 pu12en12g's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by matpal
    THe search must still be broken...there are quite a few threads for the newer Power Jolt w/Sulbutiamine.
    Yeah, I actually did a log / review of the PowerJolt V2... but I liked both version 1 and 2

    I was looking more for standalone feedback on Sulbutiamine... but it doesn't look like there is any.
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  12. #12
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    Wow, I dont remember asking that.
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  13. #13
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    Interesting development from Patrick Arnold:

    Originally Posted by Patrick Arnold
    stim x does not contain geranamine. it has geranium oil extract on the label but i tested it and there is no geranamine in there

    the active ingredient in stimx is a subutiramine (sp) derivative
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    Some info that MIGHT be helpful:

    Sulbutiamine is rapidly absorbed and the blood concentration is maximum in 1-2 hrs after oral administration. The molecule is rapidly distributed in the whole body and is eliminated with a biological half-life of 5 hrs.

    Sulbutiamine crosses the blood brain barrier more easily than vitamin B1 because of its lipophilic properties. It leads to an increased formation of thiamine triphosphate (TTP) that acts as a regulator of the synaptic transmission of many neurotransmission systems.

    Sulbutiamine is a thiamine derivative which has two different properties in comparison with vitamin B1 as a result of structural modification of free thiamine, namely opening of the thiazole ring, esterification of the alcohol groups and dimerization, with formation of a disulfide bridge.
    Clinical efficacy of the drug enerion (sulbutiamine) in the treatment of patients with psychogenic (functional) erectile dysfunction
    Dmitriev DG, Gamidov SI, Permiakova OV.
    (1) Urologiia. 2005 Jan-Feb;(1):32-5.

    Twenty patients with psychogenic erectile dysfunction received the drug enerion (Hungary) (sulbutiamine). After a 30-day course of enerion erectile function improved in 16 of the above patients. A mean value of the international index of erectile function (IIEF) increased in them from 17.5 to 24.8 points. Improvement of cavernous arterial blood flow after the treatment was seen in 3 of 6 patients with arterial disorders. As shown by electromyographic examinations, cavernous electric activity normalized in 8 patients. Thus, psychogenic erectile dysfunction can be effectively treated with enerion (sulbutiamine)."
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    Originally Posted by pu12en12g
    I was looking more for standalone feedback on Sulbutiamine... but it doesn't look like there is any.
    Standalone sulbutiamine has been pretty good for me so far but it's not something I utilize to terribly often. Search at Mind and Muscle for sulbutiamine or Arcalion for more feedback.
    Last edited by xxghostxx; 03-19-2006 at 01:20 AM.
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    ... and a little more... (some overlap of pu12en12g's)

    Sulbutiamine is described as a centrally acting cholinergic agent like donepezil which is used for Parkinson's and Alzheimer symptoms. These drugs inhibit the destruction of acetylcholine (a stimulating neurotransmittor) in the brain. Increased concentrations of acetylcholine are believed to be responsible for greater alertness, memory and acuity.

    Sulbutiamine is an ACE inhibitor, which results in greater brain acetylcholine concentrations which would increase concentration, memory, alertness, etc.
    Pharmaceutical grade, pure sulbutiamine
    Sulbutiamine has been shown to facilitate wakefulness, improve long-term memory, speed up reaction time, decrease anxiety and increase overall resistance to stress.

    The effect can be described as a boost in mood, almost euphoric in some cases, comparable to a very strong coffee without the agitation and anxiety sometimes associated with caffeine. The duration tends to last the day, as opposed to caffeine which provides a short boost followed by let-down.

    As a form of B-vitamin (thiamine), it is water soluble and excess is eliminated in the urine.

    Popular with athletes and those involved with physical competition. Same active ingredient as in the drug Arcalion.

    Sulbutiamine is rapidly absorbed and the blood concentration is maximum in 1-2 hrs after oral administration. The molecule is rapidly distributed in the whole body and is eliminated with a biological half-life of 5 hrs.

    New research showing support for erectile dysfunction (1)

    Third party testing posted in approx 2 weeks.

    Supplement Facts:
    120 capsules, 200 mg.
    Serving Size: 1 capsule.
    Servings per container: 120
    Sulbutiamine 200 mg *
    *daily value not established

    Other ingredients: maltodextrin, gelatin (capsule). Store tightly in a cool dry area. Keep out of reach of children. Do not use if safety seal is broken or damaged.

    Suggesed dose: Take 1-2 capsules per day, always with breakfast or an AM meal. Do not exceed 3 capsules at any time as this may cause severe headaches.

    Excessive doses may cause agitation or tremors.

    Pregnant or breast feeding women should not use this product.


    Sulbutiamine crosses the blood brain barrier more easily than vitamin B1 because of its lipophilic properties. It leads to an increased formation of thiamine triphosphate (TTP) that acts as a regulator of the synaptic transmission of many neurotransmission systems.

    Sulbutiamine is a thiamine derivative which has two different properties in comparison with vitamin B1 as a result of structural modification of free thiamine, namely opening of the thiazole ring, esterification of the alcohol groups and dimerization, with formation of a disulfide bridge.

    (1) Urologiia. 2005 Jan-Feb;(1):32-5.
    [Clinical efficacy of the drug enerion (sulbutiamine) in the treatment of patients with psychogenic (functional) erectile dysfunction]
    Dmitriev DG, Gamidov SI, Permiakova OV.
    Twenty patients with psychogenic erectile dysfunction received the drug enerion (Hungary) (sulbutiamine). After a 30-day course of enerion erectile function improved in 16 of the above patients. A mean value of the international index of erectile function (IIEF) increased in them from 17.5 to 24.8 points. Improvement of cavernous arterial blood flow after the treatment was seen in 3 of 6 patients with arterial disorders. As shown by electromyographic examinations, cavernous electric activity normalized in 8 patients. Thus, psychogenic erectile dysfunction can be effectively treated with enerion (sulbutiamine)."
    Last edited by in10city; 03-19-2006 at 01:57 AM.
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    nevigsawkufelgnisaton in10city's Avatar
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    Thiamine and its Salts
    http://www.inchem.org/documents/pims/pharm/pimg015.htm

    Acetiamine Hydrochloride (r INNM)
    Acethiamine Hydrochloride
    Diacethiamine Hydrochloride

    Benfotiamine (r INN)
    S-Benzoylthiamine O-Monophosphate

    Bisbentiamine (r INN)
    O-Benzoylthiamine Disulphide

    Bisbutiamine
    O-Butyrylthiamine Disulphide

    Cetotiamine Hydrochloride (r INNM)
    Dicethiam Hydrochloride

    Cycotiamine (r INN)
    CCT
    Cyclorcabolthiamine

    Fursultiamine (r INN)
    Thiamine Tetrahydrofurfuryl Disulphide
    TTFD


    Octotiamine (r INN)
    TATD
    Thioctothiamine

    Prosultiamine (r INN)
    DTPT
    Thiamine Propyl Disulphide

    Sulbutiamine (r INN)
    Bisibutiamine
    O-Isobutyrylthiamine Disulphide


    Thiamine Hydrochloride (BANM, INNM)
    Aneurine Hydrochloride
    Thiamin Hydrochloride
    Thiamine Chloride
    Thiamini Hydrochloridum
    Thiaminii Chloridum
    Vitamin B1

    Thiamine Nitrate (BANM, INNM)
    Aneurine Mononitrate
    Thiamine Mononitrate
    Vitamin B1 Mononitrate
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    C6H13NO2 pu12en12g's Avatar
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    Just some pricing info.. street price appears to be around $.50 to $1.00 per gram, with a recommended dose of 200-500mg and a TERRIBLE TASTE.. much worse than CEE.

    As always, please see disclaimer below.
    Last edited by pu12en12g; 03-19-2006 at 02:38 AM.
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    C6H13NO2 pu12en12g's Avatar
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    What is the function of vitamin B1?

    Energy Production

    Most cells in the body depend on sugar as an energy source. When oxygen is used to help convert sugar into usable energy, the process of energy generation is called aerobic energy production. This process cannot take place without adequate supplies of vitamin B1, since B1 is part of an enzyme system (called the pyruvate dehydrogenase system) that enables oxygen-based processing of sugar.

    When vitamin B1 functions in this energy-production capacity, it is usually present in the form of TDP, or thiamin diphosphate. Other forms of vitamin B1, including TPP (thiamin pyrophosphate) and TMP (thiamin monophosphate) are also important in energy production.

    Because vitamin B1 is so important in energy production, and because food energy is usually measured in terms of calories, vitamin B1 is often prescribed in relationship to caloric intake. For example, recommendations sometime suggest intake of 0.5 milligrams of B1 for every 1,000 calories consumed.
    Nervous System Support

    Vitamin B1 also plays a key role in support of the nervous system, where it permits healthy development of the fat-like coverings which surround most nerves (called myelin sheaths). In the absence of vitamin B1, these coverings can degenerate or become damaged. Pain, prickly sensations, and nerve deadening are nerve-related symptoms that can result from vitamin B1 deficiency.

    A second type of connection between vitamin B1 and the nervous system involves its role in the production of the messaging molecule acetylcholine. This molecule, called a neurotransmitter, is used by the nervous system to relay messages between the nerves and muscles. Acetylcholine cannot be produced without adequate supplies of vitamin B1. Because acetylcholine is used by the nervous system to ensure proper muscle tone in the heart, deficiency of B1 can also result in compromised heart function.
    Just to add to the discussion...
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    what about possible dependabilty on Sulbutiamine? Slightly addictive maybe?
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    Originally Posted by pu12en12g View Post
    Just some pricing info.. street price appears to be around $.50 to $1.00 per gram, with a recommended dose of 200-500mg and a TERRIBLE TASTE.. much worse than CEE.

    As always, please see disclaimer below.


    hahahah

    i will never forget the taste, i still have some bulk powder, i will never use unless its capped.
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    Originally Posted by pu12en12g View Post
    Interesting development from Patrick Arnold:

    Thats funny because PA just ordered our X-force to test it because it contains methyhexamine also.
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    Originally Posted by IBE Labs View Post
    Thats funny because PA just ordered our X-force to test it because it contains methyhexamine also.
    Ever heard of Privacy?
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    Big is out, Greek is in Outside backer's Avatar
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    biotest spike about put me in the hospital, cold sweats 104 degree fever. the spike flu messed me up. i searched other had the spike flu,

    ill never touch anything with this in it again just in case
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    Originally Posted by smh31 View Post
    Ever heard of Privacy?

    Come again?
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    Originally Posted by smh31 View Post
    Ever heard of Privacy?

    Interesting development from Patrick Arnold:


    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Patrick Arnold
    stim x does not contain geranamine. it has geranium oil extract on the label but i tested it and there is no geranamine in there

    the active ingredient in stimx is a subutiramine (sp) derivative

    ___________

    Maybe you did not understand me the first time. thats funny because PA just ordered our X-force to test it also because it contains geranime too, now do you understand..LOL
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  27. #27
    And then there were two Zachattack43's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by IBE Labs View Post
    Interesting development from Patrick Arnold:


    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Patrick Arnold
    stim x does not contain geranamine. it has geranium oil extract on the label but i tested it and there is no geranamine in there

    the active ingredient in stimx is a subutiramine (sp) derivative

    ___________

    Maybe you did not understand me the first time. thats funny because PA just ordered our X-force to test it also because it contains geranime too, now do you understand..LOL
    PA loves to test other's products, its a hobby of his plus he wants to see what he is up against
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    Originally Posted by in10city View Post
    I opted to use allothiamine/allithiamine in SizeOn tabs. Allothiamine is one of the few thiamine nootropic analogs that is DSHEA compliant as it is found in garlic while most if not all of the others are synthetic.

    Boom!

    Originally Posted by Med Sci Monit. 2004 Sep;10(9):RA199-203

    Thiamine tetrahydrofurfuryl disulfide: a little known therapeutic agent.Lonsdale D.

    Preventive Medicine Group, Westlake, Ohio, USA. dlonsdale@pol.net

    Thiamine tetrahydrofurfuryl disulfide (TTFD) is the synthetic counterpart of allithiamine, occurring naturally in garlic. Allithiamine was discovered in Japan in 1951. Its extensive research was reported by a group known as the Vitamin B Research Committee of Japan, and given this name because of its existence in the bulbs of many of the allium species of plants. It was found to be a disulfide derivative of thiamine, produced as a result of enzymatic action on the thiamine molecule in garlic bulbs when the bulb is cut or crushed. Subsequent experimental work in both animals and human subjects revealed that its metabolic effect was much more powerful than the thiamine from which it was derived. Japanese investigators created a number of synthetic forms and investigated their use in a number of human disease conditions. Although some derivatives have been synthesized without a disulfide bond in the molecule, these investigators emphasized that the disulfide was an extremely important part of its biologic action and TTFD is the most modern of the disulfide derivatives. Because at least part of its beneficial effects are the same as water soluble thiamine salts, this review deals first with the clinical uses of thiamine (vitamin B1) in medicine.

    I do not think any of these sulfated thiamine analogs really do a heck of a lot for "muscles" but more for "perception" - see below:


    Originally Posted by Int J Sport Nutr. 1997 Mar;7(1):39-47.


    Allithiamine ingestion does not enhance isokinetic parameters of muscle performance.Doyle MR, Webster MJ, Erdmann LD.
    Department of Physical Education, Western Illinois University, Macomb 61455, USA.

    The purpose of this study was to investigate the effect of oral allithiamine administration on isokinetic parameters of muscle performance and lactate accumulation prior to, during and in recovery from isokinetic exercise. A double-blind, counterbalanced, crossover experimental design utilizing a Biodex System 2 Isokinetic Dynamometer was used to test 15 healthy college students. Subjects orally ingested either 1 g. day-1 of a thiamin derivative, allithiamine, or placebo for 5 days and then performed six exercise sets of knee extension and flexion. ANOVA revealed no significant differences between treatment conditions in peak torque, mean peak torque, average power, or total work performed (p > .05). Likewise, lactate accumulation was not significantly different between treatment conditions at any measurement point (p > .05). The absence of significant differences suggests that oral allithiamine administration does not enhance isokinetic parameters of muscle performance or lactate accumulation prior to, during, and following isokinetic exercise.


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    Originally Posted by bigswole30 View Post
    Surprise, surprise. VPX is releasing a hydration drink that will have sulbutiamine. This was not a VPX plug I just read about it helping my GF with chemistry.
    Biotest has this in Spike I think. I'm not really all that impressed with any of them as they end up giving me a headache. Some info that you might like to see about Sulbutiamine, good and bad.

    Originally Posted by World J Biol Psychiatry. 2006;7(3):183-5.
    Sulbutiamine, an 'innocent' over the counter drug, interferes with therapeutic outcome of bipolar disorder.Douzenis A, Michopoulos I, Lykouras L.
    Department of General Hospital Psychiatry, Athens University Medical School, Attikon Hospital, Greece.

    A case of a patient with bipolar disorder with a history of hospitalizations and addiction to sulbutiamine is presented. Sulbutiamine is a precursor of thiamine that crosses the blood-brain barrier and is widely available without prescription in most countries or over the internet. Because of this patient's need to consume ever increasing quantities of sulbutiamine, his psychiatric care was severely compromised through him defaulting appointments and frequent changes of psychiatrists. This paper reviews the current scientific knowledge about sulbutiamine, and some of the information and claims available on the web about its use and potential. It is argued that doctors need to be aware of the potential misuse of medication available over the counter or on the internet and its potential harmful influence.

    Originally Posted by Pharmacol Biochem Behav. 1985 Aug;23(2):195-8.
    Chronic administration of sulbutiamine improves long term memory formation in mice: possible cholinergic mediation.Micheau J, Durkin TP, Destrade C, Rolland Y, Jaffard R.
    Thiamine deficiency in both man and animals is known to produce memory dysfunction and cognitive disorders which have been related to an impairment of cholinergic activity. The present experiment was aimed at testing whether, inversely, chronic administration of large doses of sulbutiamine would have a facilitative effect on memory and would induce changes in central cholinergic activity. Accordingly mice received 300 mg/kg of sulbutiamine daily for 10 days. They were then submitted to an appetitive operant level press conditioning test. When compared to control subjects, sulbutiamine treated mice learned the task at the same rate in a single session but showed greatly improved performance when tested 24 hr after partial acquisition of the same task. Parallel neurochemical investigations showed that the treatment induced a slight (+ 10%) but significant increase in hippocampal sodium-dependent high affinity choline uptake. The present findings and previous results suggest that sulbutiamine improves memory formation and that this behavioral effect could be mediated by an increase in hippocampal cholinergic activity.



    Originally Posted by Drugs Today (Barc). 1999 Mar;35(3):187-92.
    Pharmacologic and therapeutic features of sulbutiamine.Van Reeth O.
    Centre d'Etude des Rythmes Biologiques, School of Medicine, Universite Libre de Bruxelles, Brussels, Belgium.

    Asthenia is the most frequent medical reason for people seeking help from their physician. In 75% of cases, the cause is functional (either reactive or psychiatric) and in 25% it is organic. In order to provide patients with rapid relief of symptoms, appropriate antiasthenic treatment should be initiated immediately, while at the same time, adequate clinical and laboratory assessments should be performed to detect the underlying cause of asthenia. Sulbutiamine, a highly lipophilic thiamine derivative, is the only antiasthenic compound known to cross the blood-brain barrier and to be selectively active on specific brain structures directly involved in asthenia. This article reviews the current knowledge on the effects of sulbutiamine in animal models and in various forms of human asthenia.
    Yeah, so if you have asthenia or if you are older and have memory problems then maybe these things rock.

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    sweet thread, I've always been interested in Vitamin B Analogues.
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