Stimulant Levels of Pre Workouts (Study)

[VaughnTrue]

everyone who says Cohen has "bad" studies or whatever you want to call it, can you post examples of this?

Hi-Tech is currently suing him for $200,000,000 (yes, 200 million):

some basic info here: http://www.nutraingredients-usa.com/...or-200-million

[Hyruliangoat]

Hi-Tech is currently suing him for $200,000,000 (yes, 200 million):

some basic info here: http://www.nutraingredients-usa.com/...or-200-million

thats kind of proof of what im saying. exaggerative =/= bad testing, studies, whatever. im not defending the guy or anything I just looked at his CV but regarding testing methods, iirc he actually spoke against the dna testing done on all those gnc supps so that doesnt appear to be his issue hes just hardcore anti supp

[TMac26]

everyone who says Cohen has "bad" studies or whatever you want to call it, can you post examples of this? because I dont see it. exaggerative claims sometimes? sure. but hes not this huge idiot or anything like people like to make him out to be.

Look up the herb debacle with GNC.


That should be more than enough.


Any scientist who posts such sham studies would be laughed out his profess ion

[AMeyer9]

Hi-Tech is currently suing him for $200,000,000 (yes, 200 million):

some basic info here: http://www.nutraingredients-usa.com/...or-200-million

$150 million for "punishment"

Lmao k

[Hyruliangoat]

Look up the herb debacle with GNC.


That should be more than enough.


Any scientist who posts such sham studies would be laughed out his profess ion

Cohen wasnt a part of that study. He spoke against the dna testing used. So try again lol

"Cohen recommended that every supplement that flunked the barcode test should be retested using traditional methods, often called fingerprint technology. “In part this involves using chromatography to look for the typical pattern of the compounds found in the botanical ingredient,” he said. He thinks the AG’s cease-and-desist orders against the retailers were premature, and should have been postponed until traditional methods also were unable to confirm the presence of the ingredient."

https://www.geneticliteracyproject.o...investigation/

so again exaggerative claims (such as what Vaughn posted and what I noted on his CV)/anti supp =/= bad testing

[WillBrink]

Only insight I have into the supp industry is through this forum, and you're painting an accurate picture based on what i've seen. That said, let's wait for the full text and see what products were tested, and how the testing was done.

It's very possible they will not list this products tested as it can lead to accusations of bias, law suits, etc. Personally, I was not expecting to what products were tested by name, but interested to see methology used, etc.

Hopefully they list the products by name, but don't be surprised if they don't.

[TMac26]

Lol ok.

[VaughnTrue]

I highly doubt they list the products by name as well

[AMeyer9]

I highly doubt they list the products by name as well

I'll be surprised if they actually send me the full text. I requested it on ResearchGate

[VaughnTrue]

I'll be surprised if they actually send me the full text. I requested it on ResearchGate

ResearchGate has denied my requests more times than I can count.

[TMac26]

I would be money they won't list the products, the amount tested, etc nothing.



Releasing that info doesn't make it easy to stack the deck in ones favor.

[BenBlue]

It's very possible they will not list this products tested as it can lead to accusations of bias, law suits, etc. Personally, I was not expecting to what products were tested by name, but interested to see methology used, etc.

Hopefully they list the products by name, but don't be surprised if they don't.

I highly doubt they list the products by name as well

Ya I guess that would open up a can of worms legally speaking.

[OregonBBinc]

whether or not the findings are specifically legitimate or not, quite frankly; I'd be more surprised if this wasn't a real thing, than if it was.

[WaxyMaize]

FDA needs to start cracking down

[Rushie]

Hi-Tech is currently suing him for $200,000,000 (yes, 200 million):

some basic info here: http://www.nutraingredients-usa.com/...or-200-million

Well, if Hi-Tech is suing him then he must be alright.

[AMeyer9]

ResearchGate has denied my requests more times than I can count.

But you're also affiliated with Hi-Tech Pharmaceuticals, so I would consider that an insurance policy on their end

[VaughnTrue]

But you're also affiliated with Hi-Tech Pharmaceuticals, so I would consider that an insurance policy on their end

I've been affiliated with Hi-Tech for ~3 months? I've submitted 1 request since then.


that said, insurance policy? their access to studies are pretty stringent, and I obviously don't meet them as I'm not a doctor, student, or professional researcher.

[TMac26]

FDA needs to start cracking down

They are focusing on the wrong things. The rules are there, its piss poor enforcement.


The FDA doesn't need to "crack down", they need to do their job in the first place.

[AMeyer9]

I've been affiliated with Hi-Tech for ~3 months? I've submitted 1 request since then.


that said, insurance policy? their access to studies are pretty stringent, and I obviously don't meet them as I'm not a doctor, student, or professional researcher.

I used my .edu so we'll see what happens.

FDA needs to start cracking down

Don't be shocked when the cost of supplements skyrocket then

They are focusing on the wrong things. The rules are there, its piss poor enforcement.


The FDA doesn't need to "crack down", they need to do their job in the first place.

This pretty much sums it up

[WaxyMaize]

They are focusing on the wrong things. The rules are there, its piss poor enforcement.


The FDA doesn't need to "crack down", they need to do their job in the first place.

the medical device industry i work in they sure as hell are cracking down on that side of things. Tons of 483 letters, warning letters. Current CGMP standards are not being followed. You're right they need to do their job on supplements, I think they are too focused on pharmaceutical companies and bigtime MEdical device companies.

[TMac26]

the medical device industry i work in they sure as hell are cracking down on that side of things. Tons of 483 letters, warning letters. Current CGMP standards are not being followed. You're right they need to do their job on supplements, I think they are too focused on pharmaceutical companies and bigtime MEdical device companies.

Well supplements are a drop in the pond compared to those.


Think of how screwed up someone's life is if a medical device messes up, or the side effects from Big Pharma drugs.


Those don't really compare to someone taking too many stimulants and suffering from a bit of paranoia and the jitters.

[Rushie]

whether or not the findings are specifically legitimate or not, quite frankly; I'd be more surprised if this wasn't a real thing, than if it was.

Me, too.

[thackes1]

FDA needs to start cracking down

Why is the FDA the automatic avenue to remedy a problem in the supplement industry?

Do you think that the FDA is great at their job? or any better than any other governmental agency at regulating an industry?

Why can't producers and consumers solve their own problems so that everyone is happier, healthier, and wealthier?

Those in the supplement industry who are proven to have used deception and hurt consumers should be punished to the full extent of the law. However, the presence of bad actors should not be used as justification for intrusive governmental regulation, especially when those regulators are bureaucrats who are unaccountable to our democratic system and wield massive amounts of power.

[TheFugitive]

This please!

It's only a matter of time before the hammer drops. It's going to begin at the contract manufacturing labs who don't do a single lick of QA. There will literally be five brands left whenever that happens.

Thinking about blogging a long-winded rant about this that will chap everyone's asses. Who's in?!

Companies will be forced to list the amount of caffeine on their labels

[VaughnTrue]

Companies will be forced to list the amount of caffeine on their labels

if they were forced to list the amount of one compound, why wouldn't they be forced to list the amount of every compound?

[TheFugitive]

I highly doubt they list the products by name as well

I highly doubt this as well.

[TheFugitive]

if they were forced to list the amount of one compound, why wouldn't they be forced to list the amount of every compound?

They consider caffeine in higher doses to be dangerous. Look at all the canned energy drinks, they all list the caffeine content now

Once my doctor told me how dangerous energy drinks were while as he was drinking an organic coffee beverage/energy drink from Whole Foods. I was like are you serious

[thackes1]

This please!

It's only a matter of time before the hammer drops. It's going to begin at the contract manufacturing labs who don't do a single lick of QA. There will literally be five brands left whenever that happens.

Thinking about blogging a long-winded rant about this that will chap everyone's asses. Who's in?!

I'm in! haha

[AMeyer9]

if they were forced to list the amount of one compound, why wouldn't they be forced to list the amount of every compound?

Wouldn't be opposed to that either.

[VaughnTrue]

Wouldn't be opposed to that either.

I agree completely