Political discussions in real life (not online)

[bodyhard]

Last night my sons mother-in-law (my son Chris is now officially a fireman since Dec 28th 2015 for those who did not know) had the Super Bowl at her house. There was a diverse group there and I decided to stir some sh!t up on politics to see how a political discussion is IRL LOL.

So I said "Who here is voting for Trump" LOL, not one person there was voting for Trump, they all were voting for Bernie Sanders (including my son) but while everyone came at me (I did not really know anyone there except my son's in-laws) none of them came at me sideways the way folks do online. But it was clear the more I said Trump should be president, tempers were flaring and once again I could not understand why people get so upset when you don't agree with them in political views.

Two things that had them really upset, they said to me "You really agree all Muslims should not come to this country" and when I said yes, you could see the smoke coming out of their ears. Then they said "Do you know Trump said he hates Puerto Ricans" and I said, I never heard him say that, I did however heard him say he likes all Mexicans, but he doesn't want to let "illegal" Mexicans (or any other illegals ) come into the US. And once again they were upset.

But not once did any of them called me any names, or disrespected my stand on who I thought should be president although I was outnumber 30 to 1

[Mumra]

liberals are funny.

[discdoggie]

liberals are funny.

Why thank you!


And neo-cons are angry and unhappy, and soooo concerned about someone who has less than them now possibly getting a little more, and that is somehow it's personally coming out of THEIR grocery pantry, lol

I'll take "funny" any day of the week.

[bodyhard]

Whats a liberal and a Neo-Con? Let me google these

[Mumra]

Whats a liberal and a Neo-Con? Let me google these

liberals are people that are generous, kind and giving... as long as someone else has to pay for it.

Neo-Con is a term invented by liberals in an attempt to liken them to Neo-Nazis. it's a simplistic appeal to basic reactionary thought process of correlation. so basically, "neo-Nazi = bad that must mean neo-con is also bad.". because no one is going to argue that Nazi's are bad. which is ironic because the Nazis were devout socialists. it just so happened that their racism was pro-white instead of what we have today as anti-white.

[DuracellBunny]

Whats a liberal and a Neo-Con? Let me google these

Basically the same thing, people who like to attach pejorative labels to others, to imply that the other person's views aren't worth listening to.

[NHampshire]

Trump steals from the poor and is a lying sack of shvt and a garbage human being. Fuk Trump and the trash that vote for him.



Best candidates are Jeb and Rubio.

[NHampshire]

liberals are people that are generous, kind and giving... as long as someone else has to pay for it.

Neo-Con is a term invented by liberals in an attempt to liken them to Neo-Nazis. it's a simplistic appeal to basic reactionary thought process of correlation. so basically, "neo-Nazi = bad that must mean neo-con is also bad.". because no one is going to argue that Nazi's are bad. which is ironic because the Nazis were devout socialists. it just so happened that their racism was pro-white instead of what we have today as anti-white.

Trump is w nazi white supremacist and Sanders wants too much government. Jeb and Rubio are the best running.

[NHampshire]

Trump is a bigot and a bully.

[bodyhard]

The more you know, the more confusing it becomes lOL, but I see where the two sides differ on and IMO its all semantics.

I listen to both sides and honestly, while I am neither a Dem or a Rep, I side more on the rep side. But there are a lot of things that Bernie says that I agree with him 100% on so I dunno LOL.

I tried listening to Hillary but she just seems too damn fake, like everything is rehearsed with her, hard to explain, Bernie seems to speak honestly and then there are times you can see he is just trying to appease the crowd, Trump speaks whats on his mind and I respect that 100%

[discdoggie]

liberals are people that are generous, kind and giving... as long as someone else has to pay for it.

Neo-Con is a term invented by liberals in an attempt to liken them to Neo-Nazis. it's a simplistic appeal to basic reactionary thought process of correlation. so basically, "neo-Nazi = bad that must mean neo-con is also bad.". because no one is going to argue that Nazi's are bad. which is ironic because the Nazis were devout socialists. it just so happened that their racism was pro-white instead of what we have today as anti-white.

Wrong. Did you make those definitions up yourself? LOL.

Neo means new. BH by all means please Google for your info rather take it from this person.

[discdoggie]

Do we have a new rubber piggy?

[Corbi]

And neo-cons are angry and unhappy, and soooo concerned about someone who has less than them now possibly getting a little more, and that is somehow it's personally coming out of THEIR grocery pantry, lol

Say what? I could not possibly care less if someone starts getting more, in fact I have been telling my boss for months now about several guys here who I feel are underpaid and deserve a decent raise. He finally agreed.

Anyways if by getting more you mean for free or without putting in the work, hell yes that should anger anyone. Why should I or anyone who has a job and is supporting their family be required to give up anything in order for someone who is a lazy piece of $hit?

[Mumra]

The more you know, the more confusing it becomes lOL, but I see where the two sides differ on and IMO its all semantics.

I listen to both sides and honestly, while I am neither a Dem or a Rep, I side more on the rep side. But there are a lot of things that Bernie says that I agree with him 100% on so I dunno LOL.

I tried listening to Hillary but she just seems too damn fake, like everything is rehearsed with her, hard to explain, Bernie seems to speak honestly and then there are times you can see he is just trying to appease the crowd, Trump speaks whats on his mind and I respect that 100%

yeah Bernie's ideas sound nice but their implementations are either impossible or would be a disaster.

Wrong. Did you make those definitions up yourself? LOL.

Neo means new. BH by all means please Google for your info rather take it from this person.

ummm, yeah I know what "neo" means. it was applied to "Neo-Nazis" long before "conservatives". here I will google for you.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Neo-Nazism

it's a weak attempt to tie the two groups together and nothing more. as is typically the case with liberals they appeal to the simplest of us. they use catchy words or terms like "Neo-con" or "Hope for Change". this way they never have to actually explain anything and just appeal to simple emotions.

[Mumra]

Say what? I could not possibly care less if someone starts getting more, in fact I have been telling my boss for months now about several guys here who I feel are underpaid and deserve a decent raise. He finally agreed.

Anyways if by getting more you mean for free or without putting in the work, hell yes that should anger anyone. Why should I or anyone who has a job and is supporting their family be required to give up anything in order for someone who is a lazy piece of $hit?

I'll answer that for her.

"Because fairness and er' uh equality. oh and racism is out of control.". that should about cover it.

[bodyhard]

yeah Bernie's ideas sound nice but their implementations are either impossible or would be a disaster.

You lost me here, how can it sound nice, but be a disaster if implemented?

[Mumra]

You lost me here, how can it sound nice, but be a disaster if implemented?

$15 minimum wage. unless $30 cheese burgers and massive unemployment is a good thing.

[bodyhard]

$15 minimum wage. unless $30 cheese burgers and massive unemployment is a good thing.

Ohhh I don't agree with raising the minimum wage as part of a solution, IMO that might work for big corps, but what about the small mamma poppa shops? How are they suppose to pay people more? I don't have the answer for that because it must suck to earn such a low pay when everything else is going up, but on the flip side how are the people who are paying said folks suppose to do that?

[Mumra]

Ohhh I don't agree with raising the minimum wage as part of a solution, IMO that might work for big corps, but what about the small mamma poppa shops? How are they suppose to pay people more? I don't have the answer for that because it must suck to earn such a low pay when everything else is going up, but on the flip side how are the people who are paying said folks suppose to do that?

that pretty much sums it up.

the bottom will always be just that, the bottom. raising it will only devalue what those of us not at the bottom already have. it would wreck the middle class.

[Jtbny]

unless $30 cheese burgers

Argumentum ad absurdum, chief

[Mumra]

Argumentum ad absurdum, chief

eh' ok sorta. but I wasn't arguing with the guy but whatever. from what I've seen the estimates are kinda all over the place. from what I've seen the most common numbers on a big mac are up from about(depending on where you are at) $4 to as much as $12. not to mention the decrease in sales from the inflated price. couple that with the increases on literally everything else we buy and sell everyday putting that extra squeeze on everyone who is already above the $15/hr and it might as well be $30 if that doesn't happen anyways. remember if the MW goes up to $15/hr that doesn't mean everyone making say $16/hr gets an automatic raise. in fact the added costs for the business would likely mean less of a chance of them getting a raise.

I suppose that's one way to get more "income equality". make everyone poor.

[x-trainer ben]

Last night my sons mother-in-law (my son Chris is now officially a fireman since Dec 28th 2015 for those who did not know) had the Super Bowl at her house. There was a diverse group there and I decided to stir some sh!t up on politics to see how a political discussion is IRL LOL.

So I said "Who here is voting for Trump" LOL, not one person there was voting for Trump, they all were voting for Bernie Sanders (including my son) but while everyone came at me (I did not really know anyone there except my son's in-laws) none of them came at me sideways the way folks do online. But it was clear the more I said Trump should be president, tempers were flaring and once again I could not understand why people get so upset when you don't agree with them in political views.

Two things that had them really upset, they said to me "You really agree all Muslims should not come to this country" and when I said yes, you could see the smoke coming out of their ears. Then they said "Do you know Trump said he hates Puerto Ricans" and I said, I never heard him say that, I did however heard him say he likes all Mexicans, but he doesn't want to let "illegal" Mexicans (or any other illegals ) come into the US. And once again they were upset.

But not once did any of them called me any names, or disrespected my stand on who I thought should be president although I was outnumber 30 to 1

" tempers were flaring and once again I could not understand why people get so upset when you don't agree with them in political views."

The way i see it people like your audience yesterday were upset with Trump possibly removing or deporting folks based on their background/ethnicity.
If it is other political topics like defense spending, abortion, gov't interference, ect. people get argumentative but it MAY not directly result in changes to their lifestyle. As an aside i asked a group of staunch Republicans about the debate and they basically argued about who is best. It was like each person wanted a different (R) to win.

[ElrondHubbard]

liberals are people that are generous, kind and giving... as long as someone else has to pay for it.

I pay my taxes quite happily, thank you very much. I want my tax money to go to causes like justice and helping people who would otherwise fall through the cracks. The only objection I have about the taxes I pay is when they don't go to the right place, but into the pocket of some politicians relative or butt buddy. It's not the cuase I mind paying for, it's when the money gets hijacked by corrupt politicians. And those corrupt politicians are just as likely to be "conservative" as liberal.

[ElrondHubbard]

The more you know, the more confusing it becomes lOL, but I see where the two sides differ on and IMO its all semantics.

I listen to both sides and honestly, while I am neither a Dem or a Rep, I side more on the rep side. But there are a lot of things that Bernie says that I agree with him 100% on so I dunno LOL.

I tried listening to Hillary but she just seems too damn fake, like everything is rehearsed with her, hard to explain, Bernie seems to speak honestly and then there are times you can see he is just trying to appease the crowd, Trump speaks whats on his mind and I respect that 100%

I respect that Trump speaks his mind, it's what IN that mind that I want no part of.

[bodyhard]

" tempers were flaring and once again I could not understand why people get so upset when you don't agree with them in political views."

The way i see it people like your audience yesterday were upset with Trump possibly removing or deporting folks based on their background/ethnicity.
If it is other political topics like defense spending, abortion, gov't interference, ect. people get argumentative but it MAY not directly result in changes to their lifestyle. As an aside i asked a group of staunch Republicans about the debate and they basically argued about who is best. It was like each person wanted a different (R) to win.

Well let me see, there were Greeks there (my sons wife is Greek and Spanish), Irish, Italian, German and Spanish. So you might have a point there

[bodyhard]

I respect that Trump speaks his mind, it's what IN that mind that I want no part of.

What part in particular or just everything?

[ElrondHubbard]

Say what? I could not possibly care less if someone starts getting more, in fact I have been telling my boss for months now about several guys here who I feel are underpaid and deserve a decent raise. He finally agreed.

Anyways if by getting more you mean for free or without putting in the work, hell yes that should anger anyone. Why should I or anyone who has a job and is supporting their family be required to give up anything in order for someone who is a lazy piece of $hit?

Why is it that people who have worked hard for years but who find themselves out of work because of downsizing, and stuck in fields that no longer seem to have jobs available, suddenly "lazy pieces of $hit?"

[ElrondHubbard]

What part in particular or just everything?

90% of everything actually. His recent rant about loving waterboarding really got me fired up. The idea for the border wall was just stupid pandering, and the whole idea that immigrants are our biggest problem is another completely misplaced sop to the paranoid among us.

[bodyhard]

Why is it that people who have worked hard for years but who find themselves out of work because of downsizing, and stuck in fields that no longer seem to have jobs available, suddenly "lazy pieces of $hit?"

I am not trying to speak for Corbi, he has his own ideas, but I hate the fact that people scam the system outright. Where I live most people abuse the system, working off the books wile getting assistance, (SSI/Welfare), at the same time "running" the streets, having the system pay for their rent which might be 250 dollars a month because of their "situation" but they don't actually live there, have another family live there and charge them $800 rent and make a profit. I see this sh!t all the time. I know folks that make about 5-10K a week "using" the system. You would be shock.

I am all for helping people out, BUT for the people who TRULY need it.

[Jtbny]

eh' ok sorta. but I wasn't arguing with the guy but whatever. from what I've seen the estimates are kinda all over the place. from what I've seen the most common numbers on a big mac are up from about(depending on where you are at) $4 to as much as $12. not to mention the decrease in sales from the inflated price. couple that with the increases on literally everything else we buy and sell everyday putting that extra squeeze on everyone who is already above the $15/hr and it might as well be $30 if that doesn't happen anyways. remember if the MW goes up to $15/hr that doesn't mean everyone making say $16/hr gets an automatic raise. in fact the added costs for the business would likely mean less of a chance of them getting a raise.

I suppose that's one way to get more "income equality". make everyone poor.

But you were defending your position by making an argument for it.

So let me get this straight; if MW goes to $15.00 an hour we are looking at $12-$15 Big Macs? The name of the type of argument is on the tip of my tongue - maybe you can help me out with the term for this sort of argument?

Is the proposal on the table to year 1 raise the MW to $15 or was it to be done progressively over many years? That would make a world of difference but I keep seeing that part left out of the arguments against it.

Just so you know where I stand; I don't think its a good idea to have a national MW. States should be able to set the floor themselves with regions within the state being able to adjust to their own economy. Vast difference between the economy of NYC and Hudson NY. That being said doing nothing doesn't sound too appealing either. Corporations wield too much power. Its not a level playing field and many corporations wouldn't even pay the current MW if it wasn't the law. I'm NOT for the Waltons being able to buy another vacation home they'll rarely use when the folks who work to put the money in their accounts can't make enough money, working 40hrs a week, to pay their electric bill. People will argue that that's OK but we all pay for it in the end with money into the system to fund programs to assist those workers and the tax shelters these corps get.

I wont pretend to be a political guy. I don't have a party and am registered as an independent. I try to vote for what I think makes sense using whatever reason I have and with some compassion. I'm liberal on some issues and conservative on others. I'm probably in the middle with many more. I read these threads because I like to get other POV but can we stop with the all the labeling of others as a way to dismiss their opinions as if anyone's opinion here is superior to anyone else's?