5/3/1 - your personal opinion on it (from experience)

[CaptainSquatz]

Please only comment if you have done 5/3/1 or know someone who did 5/3/1 and you know what he thought about it.

1) Which variation of 5/3/1 did you chose?
1.1) What did you think of it?
2) Overall thoughts - results / effectiveness etc. - any input you can give on it.

[308smk]

Original 5/3/1

Worst program I've ever tried

Complete garbage for, at the time, a novice/lower intermediate lifter.

It's designed for old guys who have been lifting for a long time, and have a solid base of strength and need something fast and simple to get into training again with a hectic lifestyle. Not for kids starting out squatting 315.

Do something that has you squatting 2-3 times per week, benching 2-3 times per week, and pulling 1-2. And I don't mean retarded 5x10 or whatever, that **** doesn't count and has next to no training effect.

[MF83]

Would agree original 531 is garbage for the most part.

Spent a year on it, doing mostly variations found in Beyond 5/3/1.

First of all - it was definitely the most FUN program I have ever done. Going in hunting PRs every session is just the best. It led me to learning my body and able to try out tons of movement varieties and assistance schemes. Tons of FUN. Maybe five pounds a month bench gains, sometimes decreasing squat gains, but a consistent five/ten lbs gain on deadlift/month (good to teach me my DL likes high reps). Absolute gains are too slow for beginner/intermediate. Honestly, it might be somewhat effective for low volume needed advanced athletes.

For overall "strength athlete purposes" (strength, power, conditioning, mobility) it is awesome. Great for someone wanting SLOW gains and to stay in shape.

For the powerlifter, it is not great. I would say bad, even. One top repout set is not enough volume, even if there are many ways of putting extra volume in. It's too cookie cutter without rhyme or reason. Jim loves the OHP but it need not be trained equally to the bench as he would have you believe. Would absolutely consider it again when I retire from competition but the competitive powerlifter really has no need to run 531.

[Partyrocking]

1) I ran it about 3 years ago, before beyond 5/3/1 and all of the new stuff he add it to make it more customizable. I did the triumviarte (Pick two asst. exercises each day and that's it, I did rdls and lunges for squat day, dumbbell bench and rows for OHP day, etc)

1.1) I thought it was okay at the time. I was cutting, and wasn't expecting super great strength increases. After 4 months, I stalled on the bench/ohp anymore and switched to something else.

2) Don't get why it's so popular/highly recommended. It's fine if you're getting older and don't want to go crazy in the gym or are really busy and want something effective but not too time consuming and may be preferable if you do manual labor and can't put all of your energy into lifting, but I see all these beginners/early intermediates running it and to me that just seems foolish.

[Primate223]

Original 5/3/1

Worst program I've ever tried

Complete garbage for, at the time, a novice/lower intermediate lifter.

It's designed for old guys who have been lifting for a long time, and have a solid base of strength and need something fast and simple to get into training again with a hectic lifestyle. Not for kids starting out squatting 315.

Do something that has you squatting 2-3 times per week, benching 2-3 times per week, and pulling 1-2. And I don't mean retarded 5x10 or whatever, that **** doesn't count and has next to no training effect.

Basically this.

Worst might be a bit harsh, but it certainly wasn't right for me at the time I was on it. I was on it for probably about 18 months overall, and while I did make a small amount on progress on all of my lifts, it was nowhere near the amount of progress I should have been making and it was pretty inconsistent. I ended up using a lot of the modifications from Beyond 531, joker sets and first set last is definitely something anyone on 531 should be doing by default.

I ended up switching to the Texas Method about 6 months back and made much better progress.

[rollalong]

+1 for it sucking.

Deadlifts were the only thing that progressed. Ran for four months, maybe 1 PR in that time outside of deads.

[davisj3537]

If you're really at an intermediate/advanced level and put some time into reading you can write something better on your own in most cases. Keep in mind most people never reach that point as they are far too lazy to seek the knowledge. Also, you're asking in PL, where everyone is a fuggin expert.

It has a some great qualities to it, but the more advanced you get the more specific training is needed. If you understand the ideas behind his programming then that should be easy...most people don't really get it.

I'm still a big fan of the neural aspect of the top set format. I don't feel dedicating every workout to that as an optimal way of doing it, but the concept is still promising.

If you knew what you were doing, writing an upper/lower could be a more promising format than how 5/3/1 is styled. Take the aspects from all training you've done and apply what worked best for you in a single program. Viola.

[kinggorilla]

I ran it a few years ago but a little differnt from how he wrote,I would always shoot for a set of 10 no matter what day or weight,i did my own accessorry work and made gret gains on the squat and deadlift but found that it was useless for bench and oh press.

I had started it with 455 squat and 485 deadlift max and after 10 months I hit 455x10 and 535x1 on the squat and 515x10 and 620x1 on the deadlift with straps.I got injured and am just now returning to lifting after a few years and just finished my second cycle except its doubled up and no deoad for example:

monday:squat 5's week but I hit 10 tuesday bench but I use a differnt program wednesday:deadlift 5's week but I hit 10
thursday off friday squat 3's week but I hit 10 saturday bench sunday deadlift 3's (again 10)
monday off tuesday squat 1 week (10) etc. so 3 on 1 off no deload

like other ppl said it isnt really enough volume i mean even doubleing it up like this your still only working up to 2x10 on the squat and dead every week. I just finished my first cycle since being back and hit 405x10 (cambered bar)squat and 435x10 deadlift Ill be making a training log if your interested to see OP

[scullin]

It's designed for old guys who have been lifting for a long time, and have a solid base of strength and need something fast and simple to get into training again with a hectic lifestyle. Not for kids starting out squatting 315.

Agree with this. As an old guy, personally it was pretty good to keep me going through some tough times (used many versions of it).

Also good because I could tailor it to different goals - general strength, size, cutting, or athletics. Not the greatest for any one thing in particular but versatile and simple enough to tailor to varying goals.

Not good for peaking for a PL competition, although I used the 351 version for that twice in the past.

If I were to use it again, it would be for other reasons than for a PL competition.

[naturalguy]

I love it. I used 5/3/1 for powerlifting into my last meet and I had the best meet I've ever had.


When I first started competitive powerlifting a few years ago I used the original version. I've tried many programs since and I've always gotten the best results with 5/3/1 or The Cube.

[sperez21]

I ran my own variation of beyond 5/3/1 over the summer, and saw lots of progress on my squat and deadlift, although bench stalled. take it for what you will

[CaptainSquatz]

thanks guys for the input, i just finished reading the 5/3/1 book, now starting to read the "Beyond 5/3/1". afterwards i will evaluate and see if it's worth it.

[Zarthon]

I've done the original 531. I'm currently doing a modified 351 for Powerlifting.

Thoughts on 531: the arguments of it lacking volume are true. As a 40+ guy, it still lacks volume for me. It's still better than nothing and gives you a lot of time to do other lifts each day, though. My squats and deadlift were good on it. My bench made no progress at all.

My modified 351 PL: I decided to make use of the fact that the 531 system is very flexible and you can adjust it to suit your needs. I use the 351 template and do each of the competition lifts an additional day per week for volume. It's really a must for me. I'll normally add squats 3x5 80-85% on deadlift days, bench 3x5 80-85% on OHP days, and deficit deads 2x5 70% on squat days, though I do somewhat vary that a bit sometimes going heavier for 3x3 or 3x2. I like the flexibility this gives me. With this, I've been able to progress for quite some time and it's been a solid routine. At month 9, I'm finally at my reset point.

For bench specifically, I did Smolov Jr. in my first month on 351 PL. Since then, my bench has been my best-progressing lift over time. After that, benching twice a week was sufficient for me to continue to progress on the program for 9 months.

Going to give Candito's routine a run in January as I've been wanting to try it for a while. After that I'm likely back to my modified 351 routine again.

[AnimalNation]

Ran my own version for about 18 months. Made progress on it but I ended up scrapping the deload every 4 weeks and went with a complete week off every 3 months. good program but not the most ideal.

[NotThatUgly]

How many of you guys who say it's garbage read both books? Just asking because I tried the program based on a spreadsheet without reading the books and missed out on a few things. I don't necessarily think reading a book is necessary for getting stronger and most programs don't have this pre-requisite, but a lot of the 531 outlines you see online don't have the extra stuff from "beyond" that improve the program.

[lifterut]

I have bad shoulders and knees from football, so it lets me consistently and slowly progress without killing my joints. I have to admit it's not quite enough volume as it's written, so I do a back-off AMRAP set at 90% of the last set every day. I do much more pulling than it calls for, just for shoulder health.

[tom11]

Please only comment if you have done 5/3/1 or know someone who did 5/3/1 and you know what he thought about it.

1) Which variation of 5/3/1 did you chose?
1.1) What did you think of it?
2) Overall thoughts - results / effectiveness etc. - any input you can give on it.

Waaaay too low volume and waaaay too low intensity (as in % of 1RM). Program can work only if you tweak it hard (add more volume, high intensity singles-triples etc or something like that). Tbh it's just a glorified bro split with frequency one powerlift per week.

[stephen71]

I'll weigh in on 5/3/1. I'm not a powerlifter but am an old strength enthusiast who also wants to be in decent shape. I always ended up having to tweak it. It would usually be adding an additional top set and another backoff set with the 2nd set's percentages. It is basically a derivative of Bigger faster Stronger and that's all it is. I would argue that BFS's version is even better than Wendler's. What I did was make my own version of it where I could auto-regulate the volume on my own.

Week 1 = 5 x5 / I would try to add the total of the 5 sets to make progress. I would usually hit a top set of 5 by set 4 with an RPE of 9 and back off the 5th set.

Week 2 = 5 X 3 / same style as described above

Week 3 = 5,4,3,2,1 / The last single would be at an RPE of 8-9 and if it was easy I'd hit another single.

Weeks 4,5,6 = Repeat weeks one through 3 adding up the volume to try to beat the previous week's corresponding sets.

Week 7 = 10,8,6 for squat and bench for volume deload and 4,4,2 for deadlift. This set,rep scheme was pulled from BFS.

I will add that for 5's and 3's week I would sometimes try to do straight sets instead of hitting a top set to change things up or if I was feeling down. For these program hockers to say you're not smart enough to change a program is BS. All I did with this was looked up the origen of 5/3/1 and made my own version of it.

[pojo18]

I wouldnt say its garbage or horrible, 5/3/1 is what you make it.

following the original 5/3/1 to the T is not optimal for someone in there 20's who is a true novice/intermediate .

I made great progress using 5/3/1 for powerlifting, eliminating the deload week, implementing joker sets and solid assistance work such as slingshot bench, pause squats, deficit deadlifts .put about 20 lbs on all 3 lifts in 9 months.

im currently sitting around a 300 lb bench, 500 squat and 525 pull at 235 lbs bodyweight. im running sheiko now and liking that also

[JRMoore82]

Don't like it. Doesn't suit what I need. Lining up with 308.

Also agree with Davis. It's way to easy to write your own program if you put some effort into.

Best part?? YOU KNOW YOURSELF BETTER THAN ANYONE!!

[congore]

5/3/1 - good simple program for an older lifter with some experience and limited time. Other programs probably better for younger (more volume), less experienced (5x5) or specialized lifters (powerlifter), but pretty damn good for overall strength and athleticism if you look at the total program (strength, cardio, flexibility). In Beyond 5/3/1 (second book), you can even look at the Training Maximally program which focuses on gradual ramp up (volume) and multiple singles at TM and beyond - similar to some Olympic training program. 5/3/1 may not be the best program for powerlifting, but it was not intended to be. Been on it for 2 years and like the simplicity and flexibility (limits boredom) and it works for me and my lifestyle (work, family, MMA, sprints...). Good luck finding your path.

[bigfor15]

I've always responded really well to 5/3/1, but then again my goal is not to post a PR total. The program usually finds its way back into my arsenal when I don't have a strongman competition coming up and want to maintain/build my deadlift and overhead. The volume is sufficient for me to that end. I've ran several other programs before and seemed to get a lot more out of my squat and bench while on TX Method. My "on-season" training tends to be more Westside oriented with an event day thrown in at the end of the week, so that's when the majority of my peaking occurs.



Regardless of its drawbacks, it's one of the better fad programs that's been floating around for years.

[rdferguson]

I've given it two shots. The first time I did it, my actual 5/3/1 work went backwards, but my assistance work improved. Funny what happens when you do only 1 real work set focused on the majors, then a large volume of the minors. The second time I did it, my strength maintained but still didn't improve.

I like the weekly increase in %1RM, and the monthly increase in max weight. I've been using that in my programming for the last 6 months quite successfully. But that's with much more volume in the 80-95% range (3-5 sets), and all training volume at 60%+ for solid work sets (5x10x50% does not constitute work sets unless there's something seriously deficit in your endurance or stamina).

[italianplaya30]

I liked 531 but not a fan of the frequency of it

[hossjob]

I LOVE 5-3-1. It's perfect for me. I think it's an ideal program for those interested in Power Building (I'm not a fan of that term). In fact, I use it almost all times, with some modifications, and use it or a form of similar programming for a lot of the people I train.

[Lpenny]

My squat and deadlift went up, my bench dropped. I don't need volume to up my squat/dead, but I need it for bench

[Zarthon]

Waaaay too low volume and waaaay too low intensity (as in % of 1RM). Program can work only if you tweak it hard (add more volume, high intensity singles-triples etc or something like that). Tbh it's just a glorified bro split with frequency one powerlift per week.

It's very simple to add more volume or more intensity to the program and many of us, myself included, have done so. Tweak it hard? That's nowhere near the case. A few simple modifications like added volume on the three primary lifts does an effective job. I've simply added an extra day of squats/bench/deadlifts to the routine and can use that day as I see fit. Need more problem? There it is. Need higher intensity? I'll use it for that.

531 is a particularly flexible system so it fascinates me to see all the complaints.

[naturalguy]

It's very simple to add more volume or more intensity to the program and many of us, myself included, have done so. Tweak it hard? That's nowhere near the case. A few simple modifications like added volume on the three primary lifts does an effective job. I've simply added an extra day of squats/bench/deadlifts to the routine and can use that day as I see fit. Need more problem? There it is. Need higher intensity? I'll use it for that.

531 is a particularly flexible system so it fascinates me to see all the complaints.

Exactly, you should make modifications based on your personal experience. That goes for ANY program

[Zarthon]

Exactly, you should make modifications based on your personal experience. That goes for ANY program

I think about the only time I wouldn't modify a routine based on need or desire is when the routine is made by a professional trainer for me. Outside of that, these routines are templates and should be treated as such. Wendler even encourages customization of the system but provides a number of basic routines for people that just need something to get them started.

What I do agree with is that beginners and early intermediates should likely be working with routines that add weight more frequently. Benefit from linear routines for as long as you can before making the switch. 531 does have its place, though.

[NorthStrong]

I liked it.

I'll probably train like that when I am an old man and done with competitive powerlifting and want to be strong and in shape.

It's low volume on the lifts because there ought to be conditioning work, movement work, and other kinds of training included beyond just lifting weights imo.