New gym built and B&R bar issue

[Stasher1]

Guys on the other SS thread seem to think the bar is fine and the sleeves are within tolerance and it is not noisy. Based on what people have said here, York changed the sleeve design somewhere along the way and put a snap ring in there that was not there before. It also sounds like the sleeves were tight and now they came up with a looser, sloppier design that improves something but I am not sure what that improvement is. Anyway I do not like how it sounds when dropped and I am still going to push Rogue for a swap or I am going to have to use this bar for static lifts and buy an oly bar for cleans because I do not think this sleeve design is right for dropping. It feels wrong for that and I do not want to break it.

Right now, Rogue seems to be ignoring me and avoiding this issue. They are open on Saturday and Sunday and no one will talk to me insisting that that supervisor will call me but he never did. Sorry I troubled you all here but I wanted some answers and you helped me out. Thanks a million.

That bar is definitely not fine, and anyone who has ever handled a decent bar can easily see that. The sleeve to bar fit is not right and that bar needs to go back to York to be looked at.

[MonkeyT]

It´s clearly not right but why on earth are both sleeves like it? That would indicate it is "how it is supposed to be", it´s unlikely a failure in both sleeves. Very strange. I´ve seen some sloppy sleeves before but for a higher end bar that is ridiculous.

I´d be on to Rogue again by end of afternoon tomorrow, (maybe reduced staff on the weekend and no-one there superior enough to make a decision?). From what I have seen of Rogue and its customer service, this is very surprising. I´d also go into "Live Chat" with them, and insist on it being dealt with, and I´d wait connected until it was, rather than going back and forth with email. You bought a class bar, not a POS, there´s no way out for them, and I´m confident they will deal with it in the right way, regardless of whether it is one of their products or not, they should give the same service (unless terms and conditions mention otherwise?).

Guys on the other SS thread seem to think the bar is fine and the sleeves are within tolerance and it is not noisy. Based on what people have said here, York changed the sleeve design somewhere along the way and put a snap ring in there that was not there before. It also sounds like the sleeves were tight and now they came up with a looser, sloppier design that improves something but I am not sure what that improvement is. Anyway I do not like how it sounds when dropped and I am still going to push Rogue for a swap or I am going to have to use this bar for static lifts and buy an oly bar for cleans because I do not think this sleeve design is right for dropping. It feels wrong for that and I do not want to break it.

Right now, Rogue seems to be ignoring me and avoiding this issue. They are open on Saturday and Sunday and no one will talk to me insisting that that supervisor will call me but he never did. Sorry I troubled you all here but I wanted some answers and you helped me out. Thanks a million.

[zergrusher2010]

That bar is definitely not fine, and anyone who has ever handled a decent bar can easily see that. The sleeve to bar fit is not right and that bar needs to go back to York to be looked at.

It is about 1/16 inch vertical slop and I have other reports that this is how they are built on their bars too. It seems like inconsistencies in manufacturing or a design change.

[zergrusher2010]

That bar is definitely not fine, and anyone who has ever handled a decent bar can easily see that. The sleeve to bar fit is not right and that bar needs to go back to York to be looked at.

I have been calling but they defer to the supervisor who has an answer from York, and was supposed to call me Friday. I will give them until Monday afternoon like you said and call.

[FNG37]

Here is my B&R. Purchased in '12(? or so).



No snap ring, only the bushing visible from the inside of the sleeve.





Now for sleeve play, mine has about a 1/16th side to side, it is audible and very visible. The sleeve also has a bit of play on the bar shaft as well, not quite as much as yours, but still very detectible. Sleeve spin is about the same. The bar is loud when dropped.

Thing is, this is a good powerlifting bar, not a weightlifting bar. It's 29mm and until you've lifted with a 28mm bar meant for weightlifting, like a Rogue WL, Eleiko, Werksan, or DHS, there's just no comparison. Thickness in the hands in one thing, but the effect of stiffness is another.

It's a good bar and certainly a leap over the Chinese bars that come in a set, but the bar is what it is. An economy made powerlifting bar with a great knurl.

If you want more of a general use bar for both powerlifting and weightlifting I would suggest something like a Rogue Ohio. And when the weightlifting bug totally takes over and you snub your nose at the bench press for more snatching, buy a true weightlifting bar.

[GarageIron]

I ripped apart my 32004 because this was driving me crazy. I know its not a B&R (exactly) but I do recall they were built the same when I had both bars. I truly do not believe the snap ring holds on the sleeve the the OP's bar... The snap ring visible on his bar is snapped onto the sleeve, not the shaft. Nothing about the snap ring indicates it is holding the sleeve from sliding in. In order to do so, it would need to sitting in a groove on the shaft.

Ok, here is the 32004... which I recall to be exactly how my B&R was constructed.

This is the inner sleeve. The bushing is pressed in and spins freely on the race inside the sleeve.



This is the outer sleeve, The bushing is welded in and rides the smaller diameter section of the end of the shaft (same inner diameter as the donut). This is what stops the sleeve from travelling into the middle of the bar.



This is the end of the shaft. The outer bushing and donut sit in the reduced diameter section. You can see a line where the bushing was sitting.

[Domicron]

were you sitting around, maybe trying to watch football, tapping your fingers on the table while trying not to think about it? lol.

this is quite the mystery we seem to have...

[keyboardworkout]

Zerg,

Look closely at the snap ring when you wiggle the sleeve up and down.

Does the snap ring move with the sleeve or does it appear to be in contact with the bar?

Perhaps they eliminated the welded bushing.

[GarageIron]

You can see it move with the sleeve in his video. That snap ring itself is doing nothing to hold the sleeve on. Whatever that broken looking disaster behind it might be though. Id see no reason to eliminate the welded bushing when you would have to put a replacement bushing of some sort in its place. I guess they may have just eliminated the weld on the bushing and then came up with whatever this mess is at the other end.

[zergrusher2010]

Zerg,

Look closely at the snap ring when you wiggle the sleeve up and down.

Does the snap ring move with the sleeve or does it appear to be in contact with the bar?

Perhaps they eliminated the welded bushing.

Well you can see it fairly clearly in one of my videos (rattle test with the crap bar) that the snap ring moves with the sleeve. The sleeve has a 1/16 inch space gap around the bar which allows it to move. it kind of looks like that snap ring serves as a spacer between the sleeve edge and that innermost pipe looking piece inside that wraps around the bar and makes contact with it. I can see copious amounts of grease slicking around when I move the sleeve. So what has changed? is mine a new design or an old one?

[GarageIron]

Well you can see it fairly clearly in one of my videos (rattle test with the crap bar) that the snap ring moves with the sleeve. The sleeve has a 1/16 inch gap around the bar which allows it to move. it kind of looks like that snap ring serves as a spacer between the sleeve edge and that othet pipe looking piece inside. So what has changed? is mine a new design or an old one?

I'd say that is newer based on FNG37's pics. My bar was about 2012 also.

My guess is the snap ring is a retainer for the bushing, which is not the same bushing as in earlier bars. In the screenshot someone took from one of your videos, it looks like the whatever is behind the snap ring isn't an entire circle... like there is a gap in it at the bottom left. Maybe just a bad photo or a shadow but I'm interested in whats going on behind there.

I don't understand why they would change it. I know many of the first bars had some lateral play in the sleeves, but that is caused by the thickness of the outside sleeve bushing, not the inside one. Fixing the lateral play is just a matter of putting a shim or spacer behind the welded bushing until it butts up with the donut. That is exactly what York did to fix the lateral play on my B&R, and mine was far worse than yours for lateral movement. At the very least, it is interesting that the newer bars are different.

[zergrusher2010]

Here is a more close up. Probably a shadow.
y o u t u.be/cvd9tkNf2Jw

Is that still a bronze bushing?

[GarageIron]

Here is a more close up. Probably a shadow.
y o u t u.be/cvd9tkNf2Jw

Is that still a bronze bushing?

Definitely was a shadow.

I'm no metallurgist but it doesn't look like bronze to me. It just looks like a horribly fit steel bushing. York states their elite bars have "ferrous" bushings that include some sort of slideway oil. I'm far from an expert on bushings or steels and alloys. Does the B&R claim to have bronze?

[zergrusher2010]

Definitely was a shadow.

I'm no metallurgist but it doesn't look like bronze to me. It just looks like a horribly fit steel bushing. York states their elite bars have "ferrous" bushings that include some sort of slideway oil. I'm far from an expert on bushings or steels and alloys. Does the B&R claim to have bronze?

according to garage gyms it is supposed to be a self lubricating sintered bronze bushing.
w w w .garage-gyms.com/olympic-barbell-review-shopping-guide/

[dieselmike]

Well, it appears that they definitely changed the design at some point. You guys have posted what you claim is around a 2012 version with no snap rings. Here is mine, purchased in Nov-Dec 2014 clearly with the snap ring. As much as I love you guys, I am not about to break down a perfectly good, functioning bar just to see what purpose this serves. But logic tells me they didn't change the design for the purpose of a "downgrade"

[chadsalt]

Well, it appears that they definitely changed the design at some point. You guys have posted what you claim is around a 2012 version with no snap rings. Here is mine, purchased in Nov-Dec 2014 clearly with the snap ring. As much as I love you guys, I am not about to break down a perfectly good, functioning bar just to see what purpose this serves. But logic tells me they didn't change the design for the purpose of a "downgrade"

Oh come on, take it apart for the team. Looks like the snap ring holds the bushing in the sleeve. I would assume it's a cost cutting measure, snap ring would be easier/cheaper than pressing the bushing in. Also looks like a pretty fair sized shaft/bushing gap on that first picture? Hard to tell with a pic. You're happy with the fit?

Think I'll get on the phone to Rogue this morning, try and help before zerg has a stroke.

[dieselmike]

......Also looks like a pretty fair sized shaft/bushing gap on that first picture? Hard to tell with a pic. You're happy with the fit?

Beyond happy. This was my one and only go to bar for every single lift for 8-9 months after I got it. I have since spoiled myself further and have accumulated a few more bars. So now this is primarily used for Squats and Bench and stays inside the rack.

I have other dedicated bars for rows, deads, cleans and overhead presses. But not because this couldn't serve every single one of those purposes above and beyond expectations.

[zergrusher2010]

Beyond happy. This was my one and only go to bar for every single lift for 8-9 months after I got it. I have since spoiled myself further and have accumulated a few more bars. So now this is primarily used for Squats and Bench and stays inside the rack.

I have other dedicated bars for rows, deads, cleans and overhead presses. But not because this couldn't serve every single one of those purposes above and beyond expectations.

Here is my brothers bar purchased over two years ago. I think the gap around the sleeve on mine looks bigger than dieselmikes. I attached a bunch of pics earlier in the thread of my bar. do you have the sleeve play from the b&r porn vid above?

[dieselmike]

Here is my brothers bar purchased over two years ago. I think the gap around the sleeve on mine looks bigger than dieselmikes. I attached a bunch of pics earlier in the thread of my bar. do you have the sleeve play from the b&r porn vid above?

Your brother's is clearly an earlier version like GarageIron has spoke of. I never thought to even test for that up/down play until you started this thread. Yes, there is a little play in there. But nothing that I feel is an issue. Now that being said, you mentioned how you have to drop on occasion from shoulder height. So perhaps you are noticing it more on those.

I also tested the spin the other night. (Another thing I never thought to do). But during my squats I had the bar racked with 315. I locked the plates in with a compression collar (another thing I never do on squats) to get them good and secure. Then I started spinning it. They kept going and going... and going. I didn't time it, but it was a good 15 seconds if I had to guess. Honestly I don't know why anyone cares to have a sleeve spin for so long other than for the cool factor.

Maybe I am not as picky because I now strictly use the bar for power lifts in the rack, not Oly lifts or lifts from the floor. But I am beginning to more and more think your bar might not be as broken as you think.

[Mech6]

Definitely was a shadow.

I'm no metallurgist but it doesn't look like bronze to me. It just looks like a horribly fit steel bushing. York states their elite bars have "ferrous" bushings that include some sort of slideway oil. I'm far from an expert on bushings or steels and alloys. Does the B&R claim to have bronze?

Ferrous bushings are probably just super-oilite bushings. Which have more iron in them (along with bronze) for added strength. They're better than bronze (oilite) if the loads are high and the speeds are low, as in a barbell. And they're dull gray. And they're cheaper.

[GarageIron]

Your brother's is clearly an earlier version like GarageIron has spoke of. I never thought to even test for that up/down play until you started this thread. Yes, there is a little play in there. But nothing that I feel is an issue. Now that being said, you mentioned how you have to drop on occasion from shoulder height. So perhaps you are noticing it more on those.

I also tested the spin the other night. (Another thing I never thought to do). But during my squats I had the bar racked with 315. I locked the plates in with a compression collar (another thing I never do on squats) to get them good and secure. Then I started spinning it. They kept going and going... and going. I didn't time it, but it was a good 15 seconds if I had to guess. Honestly I don't know why anyone cares to have a sleeve spin for so long other than for the cool factor.

Maybe I am not as picky because I now strictly use the bar for power lifts in the rack, not Oly lifts or lifts from the floor. But I am beginning to more and more think your bar might not be as broken as you think.

I agree with you now that it is likely not broken. Just a terrible fit/design and maybe some bars are worse than others. I'm still bit surprised York would make this change and think that is acceptable. I guess as long as the bar still works, it won't really matter to most people. I've put a halt on getting a second 32004 until I'm sure they haven't made this change to other bars.

[dieselmike]

What is so terrible about this design? Why is it not acceptable? I am admittedly no expert on barbell design. I have no idea what purpose that inner snap ring serves nor do I really need to know. (kinda curious I guess)

But I do know the bar is capable of loading plates, holding weight, it weighs 20 Kg, it's straight, it doesn't bend, seems incredible strong as I get zero whip on squats when quite loaded. And for whatever purpose it has sleeves that spin longer than would satisfy the most obnoxious crossfitter.

[cwcmac]

it has sleeves that spin longer than would satisfy the most obnoxious crossfitter.

In order to satisfy the most obnoxious crossfitter you'd need to invent a perpetual motion sleeve.

[zergrusher2010]

I was never really concerned with the spin, just concerned I might break something inside the sleeve if I keep dropping it on cleans or clean & jerks (if I start doing those). But I'm not an barbell expert, avid olympic lifter or a super crossfit champ either. Just wanted to check if it's normal. My brother is the one who told me his bar has no play, and sleeves look different too, and that's what sparked this whole thread because that sent the message to me that something was abnormal with my bar. Maybe the bar is fine. My gut feeling though is that tighter sleeves would be better for drops because that's a lot of weight smashing the bushing at velocity onto a steel bar even at 1/16 inch. If it was snug, then it would absorb it through the entire bar. Can that bushing take repeated impact over time? I called Rogue and they are still in touch with York. They said I will get a call this afternoon.

[MonkeyT]

That amount of play is unacceptable to me. I wouldn´t expect that from a quality bar. It may as well not have a bushing.

I was never really concerned with the spin, just concerned I might break something inside the sleeve if I keep dropping it on cleans or clean & jerks (if I start doing those). But I'm not an barbell expert, avid olympic lifter or a super crossfit champ either. Just wanted to check if it's normal. My brother is the one who told me his bar has no play, and sleeves look different too, and that's what sparked this whole thread because that sent the message to me that something was abnormal with my bar. Maybe the bar is fine. My gut feeling though is that tighter sleeves would be better for drops because that's a lot of weight smashing the bushing at velocity onto a steel bar even at 1/16 inch. If it was snug, then it would absorb it through the entire bar. Can that bushing take repeated impact over time? I called Rogue and they are still in touch with York. They said I will get a call this afternoon.

[dieselmike]

I'm being serious here. I just went back and reread this thread from it's beginning to make sure I didn't miss something. Aside from the few comments where guys were getting OP all upset by definitively stating that the bar is "bad", "broken", "garbage", "something must be wrong", "Screw York", "Screw Rogue" etc, it appears the evidence is that this is how the bar was designed to be (at least the later versions - somewhere post 2012?)

Zerg? You aren't happy with the noise when dropping from from a clean? That's fine. You are more than entitled to that assessment. Maybe Rogue determines the bar is defective. Maybe they determine this is the way it's supposed to be. Either way, you can return it for a refund or credit toward another bar, no?

[dieselmike]

.......Maybe the bar is fine. My gut feeling though is that tighter sleeves would be better for drops because that's a lot of weight smashing the bushing at velocity onto a steel bar even at 1/16 inch. If it was snug, then it would absorb it through the entire bar. Can that bushing take repeated impact over time?

Good question. There are guys here who answer these technical details and backs them up with engineering FACTS, stating all kids of PSI that a certain item or metal can take. I hope to hear from them on this.

That amount of play is unacceptable to me. I wouldn´t expect that from a quality bar. It may as well not have a bushing.

That's opinion. Then it's not the bar for you if that bothers you. Perhaps it was designed that way for a reason. I don't know. I don't think anyone here knows otherwise we would have had an answer backed with facts. But again. Is it affecting performance or this "play" is bothering everyone because no one thinks it should be there?

[zergrusher2010]

I can probably live with the noise if they assure me that this is all normal and will be covered if and when it does break. I could close the garage door and/or not do cleans if the baby was sleeping until I get a real olympic bar.

I don't know what Rogue is going to do yet since I'm still waiting on them.

[dieselmike]

I can probably live with the noise if they assure me that this is all normal and will be covered if and when it does break.

I can understand and relate to that. Sometimes you just want the piece of mind. So far every real life example of the "snap ring version" we have seen in this thread and the ones you saw in the SS thread all claim to have this play. Have we heard a claim yet of a seized up sleeve or a broken bushing?

Be careful of the experts who make their claim based on a few pics and videos with no hands on experience.

[Cleveland33]

But logic tells me they didn't change the design for the purpose of a "downgrade"

Very true, but York did dump the true split sleeve design sometime in the last decade and that was certainly a downgrade.