New gym built and B&R bar issue

[zergrusher2010]

Haha, well for starters, a response would be nice on what they will do. So far, I got nothing. They blew me off today and I drank four fully caffeinated cups. I think they are biding their time on this because they know what the real issue is.

I believe this bar to be a return now based on what people are saying. You can see the snap rings which means this is a modification or "repair" based on what GarageIron and others are saying. I am no barbell expert obviously. I also noticed wear on the sleeves which I thought was just a "bare steel" feature but now I think it's wear. So is Rogue pawning off this used bars as new? If they are, well, then I am speechless.

A few more pics.

[chadsalt]

The B&R does not have a snap ring. That bar has been butchered. My B&R was constructed exactly as my 32004 was (B&R middle, 32004 left)

Are we sure? What's behind the "bushing"? Any chance it is covering a snap ring?

It has the pin on donut on the outboard, whats holding it in place inboard? The old split sleeve York had the inner sleeve..........

[Mechanon84]

I've attached a pic of the snap ring that garageiron spotted.

See if there is one on the other sleeve as well.

That's an odd way of doing it...

[chadsalt]

Just checked the label. It says it shipped from Rogue at Venture Ct in Columbus Ohio with an ATTN of the Returns department. Don't think it shipped from York directly.

I believe this bar to be a return now based on what people are saying. You can see the snap rings which means this is a modification or "repair" based on what GarageIron and others are saying. I am no barbell expert obviously. I also noticed wear on the sleeves which I thought was just a "bare steel" feature but now I think it's wear. So is Rogue pawning off this used bars as new? If they are, well, then I am speechless.

Here are the attached photos.

On to your 5th cup? LOL You know is possible this situation is no more sinister than someone picking up the wrong brown cardboard tube out of 100 off a pallet and sending you the wrong item.

[Mechanon84]

On to your 5th cup? LOL You know is possible this situation is no more sinister than someone picking up the wrong brown cardboard tube out of 100 off a pallet and sending you the wrong item.

Absolutely. Especially during the holiday rush. Give them a chance, I'm sure they'll set it right.

[keyboardworkout]

The sleeves have been an issue on the B&R bars from the beginning. Perhaps, they changed the way the sleeves are put together since garageiron saw one.

My guess, you have a previously returned bar due to sloppy construction. The fact Rogue sent the bar back out makes them look bad.

[zergrusher2010]

On to your 5th cup? LOL You know is possible this situation is no more sinister than someone picking up the wrong brown cardboard tube out of 100 off a pallet and sending you the wrong item.

Another possibility is I ordered the Chinese edition of the B&R bar. The Bokchoy & Ramen noodle bar.

[dieselmike]

The sleeves have been an issue on the B&R bars from the beginning.

I think you are making the original B&R bar out to be a complete piece of garbage. It is not. As a matter of fact it is a tremendous overall power bar. I could not be more pleased with mine. This whole urban legend that "The B&R Bar is the most returned bar to Rogue" I take with a grain of salt. I saw one person mention that claim on this forum. Then another said the same thing (probably b/c he read it). After people read this all of a sudden it must be true because someone said so on the Internet.

That bar always got great reviews and was humped for years by Mr. Rippetoe himself (obviously). Then the exclusive marketing agreement expired between Rogue and York. Apparently they (Rogue & York) couldn't come to a new agreement and Rogue dropped them to produce it themselves. So what does Mr. Classy (Rip) do? Goes on his public forum and trashes the York version suddenly and is now humping the Rogue version. Of course he is, it has his name on it so he naturally has to say it's great. Just like he used to with his first version. Like him or not, Rip is very relevant to the lifting community and people are going to listen to what he says. Until just recently I heard very few real life complaints about the B&R bar. But now people's mind are polluted.

Be careful what you read on the internet and know people have their own agendas. That why I like to read our (forum members) unbiased opinions who actually own and use this equipment.

[Ramcharger310]

The sleeves have been an issue on the B&R bars from the beginning. Perhaps, they changed the way the sleeves are put together since garageiron saw one.

My guess, you have a previously returned bar due to sloppy construction. The fact Rogue sent the bar back out makes them look bad.

A little yeah, but I would give them the benefit of the doubt, it could be a seasonal temp or an office person in the warehouse helping out during the BF rush. Now if this was EliteFTS......

[GarageIron]

Are we sure? What's behind the "bushing"? Any chance it is covering a snap ring?

It has the pin on donut on the outboard, whats holding it in place inboard? The old split sleeve York had the inner sleeve..........

I've torn the bar down and don't recall any snap rings, but it has been a few years. I'm not sure how you would get the sleeve off in the case you are suggesting, but I've had the sleeves off. Anything is possible I guess.

The other possibility (as suggested above) is that York has changed how they construct the bar for some reason at some point. I know when they first released them there were issues with side to side play in the sleeves. In fact the bar I bought had them and is the bar featured in several online videos and forum posts as a horrible bar. I purchased that bar from the owner and took it to the York factory to be repaired. By that time they had solved the issues with the bar and there were no snap rings visible on the flange, my bar came back with no snap rings as seen in my photo earlier. The issue was with pairing the 29mm shaft of the 32004 bar with the sleeves from the 28mm 32002 bar (that's all a B&R is, two York bars pieced together and a marketing plan). B&R was a great bar. I'd be all over buying another of the originals before they are gone, but if this is what you get, I'm out. At least you can still get a 32004. Ironically I've spent this week looking to add a bar myself and can find nothing I'm remotely interested in. Looks like another 32004 for me.

[GarageIron]

That's an odd way of doing it...

Whatever that snap ring is holding also seems to have a gap or be broken @ the 7:00 position. Strange bar.

[zergrusher2010]

GarageIron

This is the 32006. I took eight detailed photos attached above. So if this design is supposed to improve the lateral movement then why does it have play all the way around? Up down left right. Why the cheesy snap rings? It looks worse than the older pictures from the Internet. I was not able to find a 32006 from the inside sleeve view.

Both sleeves are identical.

[CliveWarren]

Just checked the label. It says it shipped from Rogue at Venture Ct in Columbus Ohio with an ATTN of the Returns department. Don't think it shipped from York directly.

If I understand this cryptic message, the bar was a headed to the returns department but found it's way to you instead. Definitely a shipping error, clearly somebody before you identified this as broken, but then somebody later grabbed this from the wrong pile and shipped to you.

[GarageIron]

GarageIron

This is the 32006. I took eight detailed photos attached above. So if this design is supposed to improve the lateral movement then why does it have play all the way around? Up down left right. Why the cheesy snap rings? It looks worse than the older pictures from the Internet. I was not able to find a 32006 from the inside sleeve view.

Both sleeves are identical.

Yeah 32006 I guess was the natural name for 32004 + 32002. I don't really know what is going on with your bar. It is hard to tell from the outside but it's clear something is very wrong. That video is a very poor representation of what is typically a very good bar and does not resemble in any way the bar I've seen or known.

Nobody can fault you for your choice in a bar, but you have a major dud and I don't know why. I was so impressed with the 32006 (And I had the worst one on the Internet!) that I had York run a custom unplated batch of 32004 bars for me because they wouldn't sell me the 32006 directly.

I agree with the above posters that Rogue will make it good regardless. They do have unparalleled customer service. If you look around, you'll see they are great at second chances.

[zergrusher2010]

No that address was the FROM part of the label. It was addressed to me.

[zergrusher2010]

Yeah 32006 I guess was the natural name for 32004 + 32002. I don't really know what is going on with your bar. It is hard to tell from the outside but it's clear something is very wrong. That video is a very poor representation of what is typically a very good bar.

Nobody can fault you for your choice in a bar, but you have a major dud and I don't know why. I was so impressed with the 32006 (And I had the worst one on the Internet!) that I had York run a custom unplated batch of 32004 bars for me because they wouldn't sell me the 32006 directly.

I agree with the above posters that Rogue will make it good regardless. They do have unparalleled customer service. If you look around, you'll see they are great at having second chances. In my personal experience, they aren't so great at getting it right the first time.

Thanks. I hope so.

[GarageIron]

No that address was the FROM part of the label. It was addressed to me.

It just means the returns deptarment can print labels to ship out to the next customer. Someone perhaps returned it, and they sent it to you I'm guessing. Still doesn't explain the weird construction.

[jimbuick]

You're not the first (and certainly not the last) to get all worked up over Rogue doing "wrong" by it's customers on a bad product before even seeing what they say.

I've seen this story before (filing disputes w/ credit cards, etc). Only to find out that Rogue made the customer nice and whole in the end.

I have a feeling you are going to be ok. The bar currently is NOT on the closeout page. You still have to get to it by searching through the Men's 20kg bars. And at that point you see the word "closeout"

No where does it say all sale are final. No returns, etc. Maybe you did agree to that during the checkout process. But it doesn't sound like it. See what they say. They are big boys and very reputable.

I can confirm my bar does not do what yours does in that video. (if you are taking surveys)

SK - I had to Google "SC2" I am showing my age.

StarCraft came out in the 90's I believe, played a ton with my step dad when I was a kid.

So you'd have to be pretty old for it to be age related.

[dieselmike]

I've torn the bar down and don't recall any snap rings, but it has been a few years. I'm not sure how you would get the sleeve off in the case you are suggesting, but I've had the sleeves off. Anything is possible I guess.

The other possibility (as suggested above) is that York has changed how they construct the bar for some reason at some point. I know when they first released them there were issues with side to side play in the sleeves. In fact the bar I bought had them and is the bar featured in several online videos and forum posts as a horrible bar. I purchased that bar from the owner and took it to the York factory to be repaired. By that time they had solved the issues with the bar and there were no snap rings visible on the flange, my bar came back with no snap rings as seen in my photo earlier. The issue was with pairing the 29mm shaft of the 32004 bar with the sleeves from the 28mm 32002 bar (that's all a B&R is, two York bars pieced together and a marketing plan). B&R was a great bar. I'd be all over buying another of the originals before they are gone, but if this is what you get, I'm out. At least you can still get a 32004. Ironically I've spent this week looking to add a bar myself and can find nothing I'm remotely interested in. Looks like another 32004 for me.

Because of this thread I inspected my bar closer. The inside of the collar does indeed have a visible snap ring. Got this bar brand new in Dec 2014. I never bothered to look so closely because the bar has given me no issues whatsoever. Chadsalt is right. Something needs to hold the sleeve on from sliding "inwards". It is clearly this snap ring. I think you misunderstood his statement. I was a little confused too because he said "behind" the bushing. Not behind meaning hidden in the collar, because yes, that would prevent the sleeve from ever coming off. He must have meant behind to mean closer to the shaft.

Anyway, lemme know if you want pics of mine close up.

[cmarti063]

One of the members on the starting strength forum just took a picture of the sleeve where it meets the shaft, and the snap ring is clear as day. Also, doesn't look like the sleeve slop is too much bigger than his.

[CliveWarren]

It just means the returns deptarment can print labels to ship out to the next customer. Someone perhaps returned it, and they sent it to you I'm guessing. Still doesn't explain the weird construction.

Yeah, but it still would be an immediate red flag in my eyes. I'd expect the bar to be marketed as used or refurbed and be heavily discounted.

[CliveWarren]

Chadsalt is right. Something needs to hold the sleeve on from sliding "inwards". It is clearly this snap ring. I think you misunderstood his statement. I was a little confused too because he said "behind" the bushing. Not behind meaning hidden in the collar, because yes, that would prevent the sleeve from ever coming off. He must have meant behind to mean closer to the shaft.

Well, I picked up a used 32121 and the construction did not need a snap ring to keep the sleeve from sliding inward. This was accomplished by reducing the shaft diameter on the outer bushing race.

Not sure if you can tell from this picture, but the donut inner diameter does not measure 29mm.

[zergrusher2010]

I took some more videos of the bar. In the first two I dropped the bar from rack position like you would in a power clean, which is when I noticed something was amiss. I also did a sleeve slop demo against my used crappy CAP bar that came with my rubber grips and in the last test I did some bumper spins on both sides. It spins good but you can hear something kind of roll over inside the sleeves while it spins.

I'm up to 23 posts, not to 50 yet. If someone can embed these, that would be great. You can remove the spaces and it should work.

Rogue advertises this on their B&R page:
"It features the perfect light weightlifting knurl that has made York Barbell famous, with a center knurl for squats and an extra half-inch of smooth steel between the knurls to protect your shins during deadlifts, cleans, and snatches."

Would you use this bar for cleans and snatches given what you see here?

B&R bar drop 1:
w w w .youtube.com/watch?v=RSgsGpwLnYI

B&R bar drop 2:
w w w .youtube.com/watch?v=LwjA5bZjTaQ

B&R vs crap bar sleeve rattles:
w w w .youtube.com/watch?v=sxHNaEIeabs

B&R bumper spins:
w w w .youtube.com/watch?v=zGSvnBTcI8Q

[GarageIron]

One of the members on the starting strength forum just took a picture of the sleeve where it meets the shaft, and the snap ring is clear as day. Also, doesn't look like the sleeve slop is too much bigger than his.

I just saw that pic. I honestly don't recall my bar looking anything like that... Maybe I am wrong.

[rpark]

Any chance you can loosen the outside end of the bar and re-tighten? Was thinking maybe the outside end of the bar was slightly loose and tightening up that might get rid of the side to side slop?

[zergrusher2010]

Any chance you can loosen the outside end of the bar and re-tighten? Was thinking maybe the outside end of the bar was slightly loose and tightening up that might get rid of the side to side slop?

Well it does not look that easy and not something I am going to attempt before Rogue decides to contact me.

[zergrusher2010]

I took some more videos of the bar. In the first two I dropped the bar from rack position like you would in a power clean, which is when I noticed something was amiss. I also did a sleeve slop demo against my used crappy CAP bar that came with my rubber grips and in the last test I did some bumper spins on both sides. It spins good but you can hear something kind of roll over inside the sleeves while it spins.

I'm up to 23 posts, not to 50 yet. If someone can embed these, that would be great. You can remove the spaces and it should work.

Rogue advertises this on their B&R page:
"It features the perfect light weightlifting knurl that has made York Barbell famous, with a center knurl for squats and an extra half-inch of smooth steel between the knurls to protect your shins during deadlifts, cleans, and snatches."

Would you use this bar for cleans and snatches given what you see here?

B&R bar drop 1:
w w w .youtube.com/watch?v=RSgsGpwLnYI

B&R bar drop 2:
w w w .youtube.com/watch?v=LwjA5bZjTaQ

B&R vs crap bar sleeve rattles:
w w w .youtube.com/watch?v=sxHNaEIeabs

B&R bumper spins:
w w w .youtube.com/watch?v=zGSvnBTcI8Q

Also before I get questions like "why do you drop power cleans bro?". I got a right wrist which does not take heavy torque well on the downward catch. Ulnar tendon issue so I drop usually from about knee level if its over 135 lbs so I do not jack it up. That is why I invested in the bumpers and need the ability to drop the bar safely and cleanly.

[keyboardworkout]

The original Berg Hantel of Germany design (which York Barbell copied) of using a pressed and pinned inside collar with a split sleeve and screwed and pinned donut made sense. Especially, in the years before bumper plates. The design was incredibly strong. The major drawback was probably expense. Minor drawbacks were likely shorter usable sleeve space and you have a step when loading and unloading plates.

This begs the question, why use a donut on the outside and a snap ring on the inside? It doesn't make sense.

[anthony6377]

FWIW, I ordered an SML-1 along with some other stuff during the Black Friday sale. All of my labels are also from "ATTN: Returns." As far as I can tell, everything is new. Some of the items even took longer to ship because they had to be made. I wonder if they put the label on their in the event that you return an item.

[zergrusher2010]

Guys on the other SS thread seem to think the bar is fine and the sleeves are within tolerance and it is not noisy. Based on what people have said here, York changed the sleeve design somewhere along the way and put a snap ring in there that was not there before. It also sounds like the sleeves were tight and now they came up with a looser, sloppier design that improves something but I am not sure what that improvement is. Anyway I do not like how it sounds when dropped and I am still going to push Rogue for a swap or I am going to have to use this bar for static lifts and buy an oly bar for cleans because I do not think this sleeve design is right for dropping. It feels wrong for that and I do not want to break it.

Right now, Rogue seems to be ignoring me and avoiding this issue. They are open on Saturday and Sunday and no one will talk to me insisting that that supervisor will call me but he never did. Sorry I troubled you all here but I wanted some answers and you helped me out. Thanks a million.