Form > weight (lol @ lifting heavy)

[maingains]

Pretty sure 90 percent of the folks in this thread are completely missing his initial argument and suggestion. Nothing wrong slowly working your way up as a lifter far too many folks rush up too quickly and end up with injuries. Nothing wrong with 10-12 rep sets either. FWIW slow negatives definitely are a form of progressive overload OP.

we are not missing the initial arguement

he contradicts himself and thats the point we are all trying to make

Yes form is greater than weight
But then he goes on to explain that lifting slow and controlled is proper form when its not
He also then goes on to describe a form of progressive overload when he early mentioned progressive overload isnt how you build muscle

[bobbydigitaloa]

LOL cheeky

I know we are toastin' here but anyone that lifts weights should absolutely being lifting heavy along with hypertrophy.

[maingains]

It's really not that complicated. If your goal is to move weight you focus on how much weight you put on the bar. If your goal is to grow muscle you focus on how much you can tax the muscle.

I regularly use between 135 and 185lbs for a set of 10 on bench press. Now if my goal was to push weight for reps I could obviously do more (I've done 225 for 18 before). That is not the case for me though. I could not care less how much weight I use or how many reps I get, my goal, when benching, is to tax my pecs. So what I do is render my repetitions to in a manner to make the pec do the most possible work through the largest possible range of motion. This means setting a posture and rep range that removes as much back, shoulders, and triceps from the movement as possible. I use a pace that allows no bounce or no momentum whatsoever to assist the lift. When you no longer have the support of supplementary muscles or momentum and the pec is doing all of the work all of a sudden 135 gets pretty difficult.



I'm not saying there aren't other methods that work. All I am saying is that more often than not there are better ways to do things than just what you know. I personally have changed my workouts tons of times as I have acquired new approaches and techniques. I'm sure I will continue to modify my approach in the years to come as I continue to experiment and find what works best for me.

I think its way easier to get bigger and stronger than to purely focus on size. People spend too much effort trying to completely eliminate the strength component of the exercise like you are describing here.
The body is designed to work as a unit, even legs should be used on the bench press. I agree that momentum and bouncing is stupid and dangerous, but why not use various rep ranges increasing weight over time? It seems much simpler. And if you are not happy with chest size development there is always DB work, and cambered bar. Altho lately i can do incline bench and get chest improvement from that

[maingains]

I know we are toastin' here but anyone that lifts weights should absolutely being lifting heavy along with hypertrophy.

this,

lol at people who cant follow literature and experts advice, you can spend the same amount of time training for both, while mainly doing what everyone calls strength rep ranges

[alejo2308]

Jesse Norris, 2000+ total @ 198 lbs. don't care if natty or not, this mofo is outlifting 99.99999999999% of the world and looks sick. same goes for Josh Hancott, Jonnie Candito, Layne Norton, Dan Green, Jeremy Hamilton... I could go on. powerlifters that compete below 242 (and some in that category) usually look really good and are strong af. stop being dumb, OP.

[MissHolly]

This trolltastic voyage brought to by Chipotlaway...

[MisquePhaggot]

Jason "The Marine" Blaha hates him

[mm394006]

I think its way easier to get bigger and stronger than to purely focus on size. People spend too much effort trying to completely eliminate the strength component of the exercise like you are describing here.
The body is designed to work as a unit, even legs should be used on the bench press. I agree that momentum and bouncing is stupid and dangerous, but why not use various rep ranges increasing weight over time? It seems much simpler. And if you are not happy with chest size development there is always DB work, and cambered bar. Altho lately i can do incline bench and get chest improvement from that

I'm not arguing that you can't lift heavy and get results, just offering up (as requested) that, as an alternative (and a decent one, if not superior one at that) you can make size gains without moving heavy weights.

The body is absolutely designed to work as a unit and that is the point of my training, to completely break from that cycle. It is much more efficient to move a bar off of your chest using your chest, legs, arms, and back. However, if you are focusing on developing your chest you can target it much more effectively by using an approach that is less efficient for the body overall. I feel strains in my chest doing bench press the way I do that I never got doing it as a compound movement.

For instance, with a typical press the last 3 inches are relatively simple as you just use your tris and shift your shoulder angle and it sort of pops up. By forcing your shoulders and elbows into an inefficient geometry, the bulk of the workload goes to the pec and taxes it in a manner that you would have missed out on otherwise.

[jakobparker50]

I'm not arguing that you can't lift heavy and get results, just offering up (as requested) that, as an alternative (and a decent one, if not superior one at that) you can make size gains without moving heavy weights.

The body is absolutely designed to work as a unit and that is the point of my training, to completely break from that cycle. It is much more efficient to move a bar off of your chest using your chest, legs, arms, and back. However, if you are focusing on developing your chest you can target it much more effectively by using an approach that is less efficient for the body overall. I feel strains in my chest doing bench press the way I do that I never got doing it as a compound movement.

For instance, with a typical press the last 3 inches are relatively simple as you just use your tris and shift your shoulder angle and it sort of pops up. By forcing your shoulders and elbows into an inefficient geometry, the bulk of the workload goes to the pec and taxes it in a manner that you would have missed out on otherwise.

Whatever floats your boat. Just know that placing so much emphasis on mass without the strength aspect will completely retard your speed potential and athletic abilities.

http://breakingmuscle.com/strength-c...or-the-athlete

https://www.defrancostraining.com/wh...created-equal/

Also most women are turned off by men over 200lbs even if they are very lean.

But if training for size is your passion than have at it. phuck what anyone else says.

[maingains]

I'm not arguing that you can't lift heavy and get results, just offering up (as requested) that, as an alternative (and a decent one, if not superior one at that) you can make size gains without moving heavy weights.

The body is absolutely designed to work as a unit and that is the point of my training, to completely break from that cycle. It is much more efficient to move a bar off of your chest using your chest, legs, arms, and back. However, if you are focusing on developing your chest you can target it much more effectively by using an approach that is less efficient for the body overall. I feel strains in my chest doing bench press the way I do that I never got doing it as a compound movement.

For instance, with a typical press the last 3 inches are relatively simple as you just use your tris and shift your shoulder angle and it sort of pops up. By forcing your shoulders and elbows into an inefficient geometry, the bulk of the workload goes to the pec and taxes it in a manner that you would have missed out on otherwise.

this is all friendly debating i hope, i hate getting negged for having a different opinion.

If i gather correctly you do standard bench style (back arched, shoulders packed)

IMO the shoulders back part is to protect the shoulders and put the chest in a advantagous position. Also if you are squeezing the crap out of the bar as if trying to bend it then you are keeping tension on the chest throughout.

I see your point with trying to make the chest work harder but would dumbells or a specialty bar work better? I could never have my main pushing or chest movement be something so isolative

Or even paused reps even. I have to use an extreme amount of focus to get a good active pause (compare to passive pause where the bar is just resting on your ribcage, active means you are staying tight in the chest, holding the bar as it barely touches your chest) You have to activate a ton of chest fibers to get the bar moving again after pausing in this manner.

[orionsfitness]

Everyone has their own goals, if someone wants strength who cares let them have strength. If they want bodybuilding, who cares, let them have it. Each goal has its own unique training. Strength training is actually the very last thing a beginner should be doing. They need to focus on a stabilization phase first, then a strength endurance phase, and then a strength phase. The strength phase is extremely taxing on the body and nervous system and you need to make sure you have built a solid foundation first or you are begging for injuries. All the people who are trying to sell a strength phase to newbies either don't understand anything about exercise science or they are trying to make a quick buck. Don't be so quick to pass judgement just because someone else s goals aren't just like your goals.

[mm394006]

Whatever floats your boat. Just know that placing so much emphasis on mass without the strength aspect will completely retard your speed potential and athletic abilities.

http://breakingmuscle.com/strength-c...or-the-athlete

https://www.defrancostraining.com/wh...created-equal/

Also most women are turned off by men over 200lbs even if they are very lean.

But if training for size is your passion than have at it. phuck what anyone else says.

I'm 27 and have a desk job. I don't think the Raiders are gonna be calling any time soon.

I've given up on strength and speed training. For all intents and purposes, I'm stronger than I will ever need to be right now.

Like you said, it's not for everyone, but it is my passion and it has worked great for me.


As for the women part, I can tell you from experience that you are just wrong haha

[IPlayRugby]

Looked at Avi, lold

Saw all top powerlifters are fat. Brb Dan Green
Brb half of ANIMAL
Brb Brett Gibbs
Brb brb

Fuk off OP, must be working for you judging by Avi ayyy lmao

[Octium]

Looking good, goodlookingmisc

[jakobparker50]

Everyone has their own goals, if someone wants strength who cares let them have strength. If they want bodybuilding, who cares, let them have it. Each goal has its own unique training. Strength training is actually the very last thing a beginner should be doing. They need to focus on a stabilization phase first, then a strength endurance phase, and then a strength phase. The strength phase is extremely taxing on the body and nervous system and you need to make sure you have built a solid foundation first or you are begging for injuries. All the people who are trying to sell a strength phase to newbies either don't understand anything about exercise science or they are trying to make a quick buck. Don't be so quick to pass judgement just because someone else s goals aren't just like your goals.

Honestly I think NASM is full of chit. I'm actually about to take my NASM final this upcoming wendsday but don't agree with there methodology at all. I think balance and proprioception is a natural byproduct of training in a specific sport or just different activities throughout life. The only thing squatting on a bosu ball is going to do is help you squat better on a bosu ball.

I actually made a thread about this and most people agree NASM recommends gimmicky training methods.

http://forum.bodybuilding.com/showth...+balls+gimmick

[mm394006]

this is all friendly debating i hope, i hate getting negged for having a different opinion.

If i gather correctly you do standard bench style (back arched, shoulders packed)

IMO the shoulders back part is to protect the shoulders and put the chest in a advantagous position. Also if you are squeezing the crap out of the bar as if trying to bend it then you are keeping tension on the chest throughout.

I see your point with trying to make the chest work harder but would dumbells or a specialty bar work better? I could never have my main pushing or chest movement be something so isolative

Or even paused reps even. I have to use an extreme amount of focus to get a good active pause (compare to passive pause where the bar is just resting on your ribcage, active means you are staying tight in the chest, holding the bar as it barely touches your chest) You have to activate a ton of chest fibers to get the bar moving again after pausing in this manner.

I obviously do other things for my chest man, come on.
There are tons of variations you can do of different movements to yield different results. The bench press is a very small portion of my chest workouts. As you mentioned db presses and flyes are my go to's.


A few key points:
1) Keeping the chest in constant tension will make is hurt, but it won't give you what you need to grow. You need a deep stretch and a firm contraction. Not a forced contraction where you use other muscles to force it into a contracted state, but actually using the muscle to lower the weight into a stretch and again using the muscles natural geometries to contract itself throughout the repetition. It took me several years to identify the difference between an externally forced contraction and a contraction actually induced by the object muscle.

2) Why could you "never have my main pushing or chest movement be something so isolative"? If your goal is to get a big bench I understand, but if your goal is growth why would you be unwilling to sacrifice that lift to reap results? Ego is one of the biggest things most gym goers will face. Putting 135 on a bar and failing for 10 is a heck of a gut check, but if it gets you results wouldn't it be worth it?

[jakobparker50]

I'm 27 and have a desk job. I don't think the Raiders are gonna be calling any time soon.

I've given up on strength and speed training. For all intents and purposes, I'm stronger than I will ever need to be right now.

Like you said, it's not for everyone, but it is my passion and it has worked great for me.


As for the women part, I can tell you from experience that you are just wrong haha

True. Even though you train for mass I bet you are much stronger and faster than the average person.

And though you might not be faster than the average person in the pursuit of strength I bet you are stronger than the average strength trainer at a bodyweight of 253lbs.

As for the women part. I've heard that countless times and was actually hoping it wasn't true because I've heard even someone at my weight-class is generally "to much muscle for most women" I hope for all of our sakes your right about that one.

[BroHusky]

100% agree, also heavy lifting will run you into the ground. You need to build a decent strength base, but just LMAO @ *******s squatting more than 3 plates or deadlifting more than 4. Complete joke. Drains your physically, sets you up for more health problems down the road, and who gives a ****.

Made best progress of my life this year lifting slow and steady on a my now 9 month cut. Feel absolutely amazing.

LOL @ being over 12% BF

LOL @ lifting heavy

LOL @ not incorporating cardio

LOL @ shoving **** food down your throat cause you're "bulking"

THE POINT OF LIFTING IS TO MAKE THE LIGHTEST WEIGHT FEEL AS HEAVY AS POSSIBLE

[trevorschmidt16]

6'4 193

[Neybor]

Looked at Avi, lold

Saw all top powerlifters are fat. Brb Dan Green
Brb half of ANIMAL
Brb Brett Gibbs
Brb brb

Fuk off OP, must be working for you judging by Avi ayyy lmao

My avi is legit. I'm a 6ft 4 tank IRL m8 and u Fukin love it. What kind of poverty close up half pose are you trying to pull LOL

6'4 193

Are you

Fuking

Mirin bra?

[trevorschmidt16]

100% agree, also heavy lifting will run you into the ground. You need to build a decent strength base, but just LMAO @ *******s squatting more than 3 plates or deadlifting more than 4. Complete joke. Drains your physically, sets you up for more health problems down the road, and who gives a ****.

Made best progress of my life this year lifting slow and steady on a my now 9 month cut. Feel absolutely amazing.

LOL @ being over 12% BF

LOL @ lifting heavy

LOL @ not incorporating cardio

LOL @ shoving **** food down your throat cause you're "bulking"

THE POINT OF LIFTING IS TO MAKE THE LIGHTEST WEIGHT FEEL AS HEAVY AS POSSIBLE

sarcasm?

[jakobparker50]

100% agree, also heavy lifting will run you into the ground. You need to build a decent strength base, but just LMAO @ *******s squatting more than 3 plates or deadlifting more than 4. Complete joke. Drains your physically, sets you up for more health problems down the road, and who gives a ****.

Made best progress of my life this year lifting slow and steady on a my now 9 month cut. Feel absolutely amazing.

LOL @ being over 12% BF

LOL @ lifting heavy

LOL @ not incorporating cardio

LOL @ shoving **** food down your throat cause you're "bulking"

THE POINT OF LIFTING IS TO MAKE THE LIGHTEST WEIGHT FEEL AS HEAVY AS POSSIBLE

Lol @ skipping over all the good points made in this thread to just post the same ignorant crap.

[KevinHarvick]

Bump

Lol

[Lpenny]

After struggling to make gains for a couple years, I have meticulously perfected my form in every lift so that I only need to use an empty barbell. My 1RM's in my signature are theoretically based off how good my form is.

[atgbrahsrs]

After struggling to make gains for a couple years, I have meticulously perfected my form in every lift so that I only need to use an empty barbell. My 1RM's in my signature are theoretically based off how good my form is.

haha repped



edit: looking good, goodlooking misc

[allianc3]

I can't take any lifting advice seriously on this forum from anyone who looks like they've been lifting for under a year. Basically what I did ITT was look at OP's avi, determined he falls into that category, ignored the advice, and came in hours late on page 5 to realize I'm not the only one who did this.

No reason to get bent out of shape over someone offering crappy advice, they're gonna remain unimpressive while we continue to grow.

[KevinHarvick]

I can't take any lifting advice seriously on this forum from anyone who looks like they've been lifting for under a year. Basically what I did ITT was look at OP's avi, determined he falls into that category, ignored the advice, and came in hours late on page 5 to realize I'm not the only one who did this.

No reason to get bent out of shape over someone offering crappy advice, they're gonna remain unimpressive while we continue to grow.

Just curious. You do know you can set it to 50 post per page?

[LibertyLonerrr]

Dude, you lift heavier than that, don't you?

Those are REALLY light.

[allianc3]

Just curious. You do know you can set it to 50 post per page?

I've been here 9 years longer than you, how dare you insult my knowledge of these boards.

More to your point, I'd rather click next page than wear out my fuking finger by scrolling even longer than I already do.

[KevinHarvick]

legit I was doing shoulders with a light dumbbell extremely slow - longer time under tension and the burn was much stronger than doing the same reps faster with way heavier weight

This you? Or do you go slower?