Is minimum wage stupid

[mcdojo]

I start a small business selling potatoes, I only sell locally, and my volumes have no affect on supermarket supplies.

I advertise for a picker for $5 an hour.

Gary accepts for the simple reason he can't find a better job

Minimum wage supporters demand I pay $15 an hour.

I can't afford that, so I close up. People say if you can't afford to pay a liveable wage you shouldn't be in business.

So Gary is now back to being unemployed, and that's a victory?

[Auzthetics]

I start a small business selling potatoes, I only sell locally

So you are selling yourself for $5 an hour OP?

You cheap whore.






Interdasting point tho

[DicedPineapples]

Most real businesses like the one you described in the OP just pay people (usually illegals) under the table

[lnsanity]

Most real businesses like the one you described in the OP just pay people (usually illegals) under the table

This tbh

The business isn't that big and barely known enough for people to find out that you're just payin the employees under the table

[mcdojo]

This tbh

The business isn't that big and barely known enough for people to find out that you're just payin the employees under the table

Yup but that shows its better for society to have no min wage

Even if the wage is so low that the government has to subsidise it becomes:

Employed Gary: Wage + part welfare
Unemployed Gary: Full welfare

Not to mention the fact that the small business will still likely pay some tax etc.

[mcdojo]

Where are all the min wage supporters now

Where's all the everyone deserves a livable wave

Can't accept that Gary is worse off because you enforce min wages

[RougeProdigy]

The minimum wage is a benchmark of how well our country is doing. We should be so mechnaized that everyone can at least make 9 bucks an hour.

Also the minimum wage has nothing to do with the employment rate. There is so much that goes into a good employee, and paying them is a relatively small cost compared to overhead. Do you even business?

[DicedPineapples]

Where are all the min wage supporters now

Where's all the everyone deserves a livable wave

Can't accept that Gary is worse off because you enforce min wages

Honestly I just don't think anyone wants to take the time to explain to you the realities of why it's not as simple as you're making it out to be. If you had an even rudimentary understanding of economics and government you'd understand why having a minimum wage is a good thing.

If the employer is big enough that they're filing taxes and not flying under the radar, they should be able to pay their employees minimum wage. If the employer is small enough that they're paying people under the table, Gary will get the job and get paid anyway.

[Iceman1800]

Where are all the min wage supporters now

Where's all the everyone deserves a livable wave

Can't accept that Gary is worse off because you enforce min wages

minimum wage isn't $15 an hour so your argument is stupid.

[Alpha20]

Minimum wage prevents wages from reaching market equilibrium. And as a result of this we get unemployment.

[Bromenclature]

In the small potato-based economy from your example, minimum wage would not make any sense.

Politicians love to pander and sweetheart "small business", but the truth is that we live in a highly advanced society where large companies are leveraging their scale to make enormous profit that is not shared at a lower level unless the government steps in.
Part of what makes these large companies successful, and even feasible, is a free and secure country with willing consumers. All Americans are a part of that and when the society becomes more wealthy, all Americans, who are willing to work hard to the best of their ability, should be become more wealthy. The poor do not have the bargaining power or representation to extract this wealth.

I'm truly on the fence on the issue, but what I described is the general philosophy of the movement. And unfortunately the scenario I laid out is mere fantasy. There are millions of people trying to do just enough job searching and short-term employment to cling on to government benefits so they can sit at home and play on their phones.

[GGGTeam]

Minimum wage prevents wages from reaching market equilibrium. And as a result of this we get unemployment.

Even at theoretically perfect market equilibrium there is unemployment.

[mcdojo]

Honestly I just don't think anyone wants to take the time to explain to you the realities of why it's not as simple as you're making it out to be. If you had an even rudimentary understanding of economics and government you'd understand why having a minimum wage is a good thing.

If the employer is big enough that they're filing taxes and not flying under the radar, they should be able to pay their employees minimum wage. If the employer is small enough that they're paying people under the table, Gary will get the job and get paid anyway.

That's the point

The small business has to operate illegally under the table to benefit Gary and society as a whole.

If min wage was removed itld likely mean even more jobs would exist.

If there were 100 jobs avaiable and only 90 workers then the wage would handle itself and you could not get away with low balling employees. Supply and demand , true economics

[whitecollarcrim]

That's the point

The small business has to operate illegally under the table to benefit Gary and society as a whole.

If min wage was removed itld likely mean even more jobs would exist.

If there were 100 jobs avaiable and only 90 workers then the wage would handle itself and you could not get away with low balling employees. Supply and demand , true economics

I'd rather have 10 jobs at $50 an hour
than 200 jobs at $5 an hour.

The reason being, that $5 an hour, no matter how you cut it can't support a single person.
The only reason illegals take $5 an hour is because that's roughly the amount the $7 an hour is after taxes.

And a wage floor, means businesses can't take advantage of workers.
If McDonalds could, that would offer only $5 an hour, as would many of the others, which wouldn't even allow their workers to live a poverty life.

$5 is less than $800 a month.

[Alpha20]

Even at theoretically perfect market equilibrium there is unemployment.

I apologise. I meant to say that it leads to unemployment above the natural rate (3-4%).

[mcdojo]

I'd rather have 10 jobs at $50 an hour
than 200 jobs at $5 an hour.

The reason being, that $5 an hour, no matter how you cut it can't support a single person.
The only reason illegals take $5 an hour is because that's roughly the amount the $7 an hour is after taxes.

And a wage floor, means businesses can't take advantage of workers.
If McDonalds could, that would offer only $5 an hour, as would many of the others, which wouldn't even allow their workers to live a poverty life.

$5 is less than $800 a month.

This is potato logic

At the end of the day, it is better for society for people to have jobs then not

Your example would create 190 people on full government welfare

While if they were allowed to work for $5 an hour, it would be 200 people on wage + part welfare

Much better for society

[whitecollarcrim]

This is potato logic

At the end of the day, it is better for society for people to have jobs then not

Your example would create 190 people on full government welfare

While if they were allowed to work for $5 an hour, it would be 200 people on wage + part welfare

Much better for society

You're saying part welfare, well that's just wage supplement from the rich anyways, so it'd nearly equivalent to a higher wage anyways.
Since those profits =/= in the pockets of the rich, but being shelved out for welfare.

It would cost businesses more.

[mcdojo]

You're saying part welfare, well that's just wage supplement from the rich anyways, so it'd nearly equivalent to a higher wage anyways.
Since those profits =/= in the pockets of the rich, but being shelved out for welfare.

It would cost businesses more.

If it truly costs business more than business will be the ones to decide that.

Either way your argument does not support min wage, as you said they would be supplemented through welfare taxes anyway. Then let the free market decide the wages.

Just look at the scandavian countries, no min wage, rich society, lower unemployment rates. Proof min wage is not needed.

[DicedPineapples]

Just look at the scandavian countries, no min wage, rich society, lower unemployment rates. Proof min wage is not needed.

uwotm8

You realize the US is far more economically successful than the Scandivanian nations right...? Every country ranked in the top 10 by GDP has a minimum wage.

[everblue]

I thought a lot people with minimum wage jobs were teenagers. Why do they need an income to support themselves if they're legally not allowed to move out from their parents?

[whitecollarcrim]

If it truly costs business more than business will be the ones to decide that.

Either way your argument does not support min wage, as you said they would be supplemented through welfare taxes anyway. Then let the free market decide the wages.

Just look at the scandavian countries, no min wage, rich society, lower unemployment rates. Proof min wage is not needed.

You're using a geographically tiny, natural resource rich, homogenous (racially) country to compare to a country that is 1000X larger, more diverse than almost any other country and per capita scarcer in natural resources.

GTFO brah. Wanna know why minimum wage is good, because it provided a livable wage for those who otherwise have no ability to negotiate labor prices for themsevles. I'm only for minimum wage if unions go back in FULL effect.

[Kansas123]

I don't understand how someone doing a minimum wage job wants to make $15 an hour when there's people entering the medical field and people doing manual labor for less than $15.

[Productivity]

Wrote a paper on this last year. Basically minimum wage forces everyone who doesn`t want to do physical labor into a 4 year degree program.

[DicedPineapples]

I don't understand how someone doing a minimum wage job wants to make $15 an hour when there's people entering the medical field and people doing manual labor for less than $15.

You realize those people's wages would go up too, right?

And you don't understand why they want to make $15/hr.? Maybe because wages have fallen far behind inflation? Maybe because they can't afford to pay their bills? But yeah, fuk them right?

[mcdojo]

I thought a lot people with minimum wage jobs were teenagers. Why do they need an income to support themselves if they're legally not allowed to move out from their parents?

True

No one here has said how Gary is better off unemployed

They have no answer, they just live in a fairyland where there's unlimited jobs and unlimited money

[Seatard]

I start a small business selling potatoes, I only sell locally, and my volumes have no affect on supermarket supplies.

I advertise for a picker for $5 an hour.

Gary accepts for the simple reason he can't find a better job

Minimum wage supporters demand I pay $15 an hour.

I can't afford that, so I close up. People say if you can't afford to pay a liveable wage you shouldn't be in business.

So Gary is now back to being unemployed, and that's a victory?

Why would you close up?

That'd be pretty dumb.

[linkherooftime]

minimum wages are stupid

[mcdojo]

You realize those people's wages would go up too, right?

And you don't understand why they want to make $15/hr.? Maybe because wages have fallen far behind inflation? Maybe because they can't afford to pay their bills? But yeah, fuk them right?

No I'm saying society is better off with more jobs and people working, more businesses. Even if taxpayers have to subside its better than companies closing, higher unemployment

[ChrisVigor]

why would gary bust his ass for $5 when he can go on unemployment lmao rip country

[KTTY]

There has to be a minimum wage. Or else there's always gonna be someone willing to work for less, and that would mean dirt poor wages because people are greedy