Is A Reverse Hyper An Essential Piece?

[Deep-Voiced-One]

Are reverse hypers high on the list of essential pieces of equipment to have after all the basic pieces are covered? I have a few questions on them, Are they considered useful for general purposes? (Example to keep the lower back strong on lifters and non-lifters alike). Are they useful for someone who doesn't compete in powerlifting? (Let's say strength and mass for example). Are they useful for people who don't have any injuries/nagging issues? (Or is this their main target audience). Assuming the lifter has all the essentials first (Rack, bench, barbell, plates and dumbbells) would an RH be ranked next after those pieces, or would a lat pulldown machine be next and then the RH?

On a side question, If they are essential in your opinion when would be the best time to use the RH? (Before, or after a workout, or on off days).

[Biedec7048]

I personally don't think so, simply because there are a ton of ways to train hip extension without needing a special piece of equipment. If you want equipment for your posterior chain go with a GHR. Knee flexion is harder to duplicate, with pretty much only the GHR, natural GHR and leg curl doing the job.

[stonecold123]

I dont have a reverse hyper BUT, if u want hard data, just look at the 'home gym' section of this forum. Tally the number of pics with a reverse hyper and those without. That will tell u if its essential or not.



I bot a ghd bec i saw a lot of ppl with ghd in their home gym. Hope this helps. My tally on ghd is its about a little less than 50 pct hav a ghd. Its good enuf for me.

[jdforsy]

I don't think it's essential but it's really useful if you have the space for it. I have a rogue version and I don't think I'll get rid of it. I workout at 5am so I mainly use it to warm up the lower back on squat and deadlift days. I don't program it and weight only gets increased when it starts feeling really light. I've never rehabbed an injury with it but I imagine it really shines there.

[keyboardworkout]

kettlebell swing > reverse hyper

[urbanlifter]

If you want equipment for your posterior chain go with a GHR.

Speaking of, does anyone know anything about this machine? Crazy price, looks exactly like the Valor CB-26 that sells for $800.

$400 with free shipping...

http://www.equipmentraw.com/ghd-glut...free-shipping/

[C123C]

Basics are rack, bench, bar, and plates. That goes a long way. What comes next is personal preference.

Is a RH your next piece after that...probably not. It was for me as I've used one before and they really help my back. There are elements to the RH movement which simply CANNOT be replicated any other way (I've tried, others have tried, believe me here). How crucial those elements like the dynamic traction and extension are to you will be a deciding factor. Assuming you've never tried one - an option would be to buy the Rogue and resell, likely easily with only modest loss, if it doesn't work out for you after a few months. I'll also say they strengthen an area that does not get directly hit through any hip/back type extension - squat, goodmorning, romanian dead, GHR etc...

IMO - a RH is not far down the list regardless of where you prioritize things. With the strap it can give you an effective, albeit not perfect, leg extension machine. With the roller it gives you a leg curl option. A useful piece.

For me a RH and GHD are probably top 2 (I also have a dip rack because I love them but that can be a power rack attachment too). I'd like to have a lat pulldown but the reality is that pullups are better than pulldowns (you can add a band to take off weight or a weight belt to add) and bent rows trump cable rows any day. That leaves me with tri pushdowns and cable curls. I do like pushdowns but lying extensions with a barbell or ezcurl bar ($50 shipped) are equal or better substitutes vs a large and expensive machine. For home gym purposes, convenient and superior replication of movements makes it a luxury piece IMO and moves it down the list a ways. Nice to have if you have money and space but not essential for most.

To your other questions. Very useful for general purpose population. Simmons sold a cheap home version via infomercial at one time. Therapeutic movement for prehab and rehab alike. As to usefulness for someone not in PL, the previous answer takes care of it. It strengthens and conditions an area of your body that doesn't get hit directly or dynamically - and that area is crucial.

For me, I was the first piece I added after my basics up top (and dip rack) - I also own a Concept2 rower and will likely purchase a GHD soon. I use it both for heavy work as well as basic stretching and decompressing of the spine after lifting or if I just feel tight. It has made a huge difference in my life. My squats/deads feel more whole body and integrated where everything is naturally working together. I have the Rogue model and primarily use the strap. I do use the roller occasionally for leg curls etc...(it seems too short for me 6'3" to get full extension on RH so I may need to get a piece made to lengthen the extension).

For what it's worth you can see how WSide uses it and it's similar to my use. They will train it heavy but tend to use it A LOT as a finisher to stretch and decompress after lifts like squats and pulls. Damn thing feels good. Simmons had a quote which I imagine is still valid, "At Westside we have four reverse hypers...we don't have four of anything else."

YMMV but hope that helped some.

[C123C]

kettlebell swing > reverse hyper

If this is considered an equivalent movement for someone, my opinion would be that they do not use/own a reverse hyper for the correct reasons. I'm not trying to be an ass but I don't understand how these can be considered similar except in an extraordinarily broad sense. I see more similarity in a squat and deadlift than I do in these.

[Mech6]

Are reverse hypers high on the list of essential pieces of equipment to have after all the basic pieces are covered?

Not at all

[Icey101]

Use mine just about everyday, works great to set my water bottle on, or my workout book and my phone perfect height. Otherwise I actually use it two to three times a week. Glad I bought it, I think its worth the space loss and the price for me. Not essential at all there would be several other things I would pick up before buying one.

[keyboardworkout]

If this is considered an equivalent movement for someone, my opinion would be that they do not use/own a reverse hyper for the correct reasons. I'm not trying to be an ass but I don't understand how these can be considered similar except in an extraordinarily broad sense. I see more similarity in a squat and deadlift than I do in these.

Read some of Dr. Stuart McGill's stuff.

[jackbravo]

I think it's one of those you have to try. I've tried and really disliked it. I have no plans to ever buy one (which could always change).

This guy has a pretty nice home gym, had a reverse hyper and got rid of it...not sure why
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IstYj38ZLWM

[Domicron]

i think it's always smart to start with the lifts and the movements that you do most often. is there equipment that would help you to work the body parts you like in a more efficient way, or less painful, or just more fun?

that's where you should start. definitely don't buy pieces because other people are talking about them and posting pics. when i first started posting everyone was going nuts over GHR. now more people talk about them being nice to own for the space, but only a few people say they're worth it when space is tight.

as for your own question, after the rack/weights/bench you might look at a concept 2 rower or a good bike for some cardio. a sled would be good for conditioning and very old-school

[BulkMore]

Follow the sheeple and get a GHR.

[stonecold123]

Follow the sheeple and get a GHR.

i am so screwed

[RealAdvice]

Follow the sheeple and get a GHR.

I'm going to lump 2 pieces of equipment into this, just because I have a lot of experience with both. The GHD and the RH.

The GHD is great for athletes and BB's alike, because of it's uncanny ability to build hamstring strength, along with glute and lower back. I honestly don't think there is a substitute, unless you have a partner. Romanian deadlifts, leg curls, etc... just don't hit it the same way. Most of us have really strong quads from squats, deadlifts, sprints, sports, etc. Having a much stronger quad muscle vs hamstring muscle opens you up to more ACL/MCL injuries. I'm not sure how many of you are weekend warrior athletes like me, but it's important to strike a balance between my bb goals and my ability to perform. While not the purpose, you can switch your position on the GHD and face up and do some amazing over extended core work - or just not drop back very far and still hit the core hard. I like this about the GHD over the RH.

NOW having said that, I also get some decompression of the lower spine when I use GHD/hanging from pull up bar, but nothing close to the reverse hyper. The RH is phenomenal in that aspect. However, I do feel like I don't hit my hammies as much on this.

My recommendation would be, if you have more lower back pain, go with the RH.
If you are more of a weekend athlete and want to train the hammies/glutes/lower back more, AND have the option of core, go with the GHD.

Personally, I'd choose GHD 6 out 7 days of the week, and find cheaper ways to decompress my spine. But that is why they are both mentioned here: http://www.bodybuilding.com/fun/henkin16.htm

DO NOT get one of those cheap bastardized versions of the GHD. Where you see soccer moms in the gym trying to work on their obliques/love handles... god I just want to walk up to them and shake them and say, "Your love handles won't go away by working your obliques! You're just going to make them look bigger!!!!!".

[C123C]

that's where you should start. definitely don't buy pieces because other people are talking about them and posting pics. when i first started posting everyone was going nuts over GHR. now more people talk about them being nice to own for the space, but only a few people say they're worth it when space is tight.

I just ordered one. I have one at the gym (PowerLift) but really haven't missed it much at home - hell, I miss the leg extension or leg press more. What got me over the hurdle was pricing 45/90 degree hypers. I figured once I was at that point in money/space (thought they'd be cheap) I might as well get the damn GHR which would give me a hyper and more core conditioning options along with glute ham raise. Plus the Rogue Abrams 2 looks quite awesome and it's going into my bedroom so I'll be inspired in the morning.

[weisgarb]

This guy has a pretty nice home gym, had a reverse hyper and got rid of it...not sure why
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IstYj38ZLWM

On a video from 10/25/15, he posted this this reply when someone asked whether he had ditched his reverse hyper:

I might make a video on why I got rid of the reverse hyper but long story short, it aggravates a chronic disc injury I have

I have a disc injury that was likely caused by hyperextending under load (which can be as dangerous as lifting with a rounded back, something I didn't realize and had to learn the hard way). If hyperextension aggravates the injury (as it does in my case), a RH may make things worse.

[Synthetickiller]

kettlebell swing > reverse hyper

If this is considered an equivalent movement for someone, my opinion would be that they do not use/own a reverse hyper for the correct reasons. I'm not trying to be an ass but I don't understand how these can be considered similar except in an extraordinarily broad sense. I see more similarity in a squat and deadlift than I do in these.

It's kind of like saying a good morning > box squat more so than the squat/deadlift comparison, but I see what you're saying.
Kettlebell swings & reverse hypers are two different things that provide different benefits. Both are good; neither replaces the other.
Keyboard, I'm not trying to jump on the bandwagon, but they are not greater or less than each other. Kettlebell work will target the posterior chain better & activate more muscle, but can only be done so heavy. It's more of a conditioning tool, not that you don't know that; I'm just pointing it out for people who might be asking why. Reverse Hypers on the other hand are a great warm up tool & an even better cool down & rehabilitation (even pre-habilitation at the beginning of the workout) tool. The range of motion is different. The way the hips hinge is entirely different. The legs are loaded longitudinally to the spine & the spine is loaded secondarily. Kettlebell swings are going to be much emphasis on your low bar primarily in comparison. Reverse hypers are going to force fluid into the spine & encourage circulation in a way kettlebell swings simply can't. At the same time, it provides a type of traction for spine.

Not at all

Agreed.

I built a RH after owning a rack/bench/weights. So it was the first piece I had as non-primary equipment.
My need for this was rehabilitation, so I'm jaded when I speak of the machine. I bought one after reading Simmons' articles on it & how it helped him rehabilitate his crushed vertebrae.
Did it help with my sacroilliac issues? Yes? Do I find it the end all be all to fix lower back & alignment issues? NO. I actually prefer a belt squat to it, bar none. If I had my choice, I'd own a belt squat. That's not to say it's a bad piece & doesn't have it's place. If you're having issues with squat/deadlift volume and pain & need a tool to help correct problems, it's probably one of the better options. I do NOT feel that the RH is a standard for lifting because you are not going to see major strength gains through it's use.

For a healthy lifter, I'd rather see someone buy equipment that is going to be more beneficial, like a lat pulldown/seated row, other rowing machine, or GHR. You will put on more size & strength this way.

If you want a reverse hyper, get the tilt top version. There is a world of difference between that & the flat version. As weisgarb stated, you can hyperextend with a flat version. Not so much with the tilt top. I never use mine in the flat position. I find face down, @$$ up to provide better traction & less stress on the lower back.

Off hand, if I were to list things in order of purchase:
1. Rack/weights/generic olympic bar
2. GHR
3. Specialty bars
4. Everything else in order of personal preference/need.

For the haters, I've been using a GHR for just about 5 years. I'm not on the bandwagon. The piece simply works & functions as described. I have yet to find anyone who's used one who says its a gimmic. Everyone who hates it doesn't own it or hasn't used it for more than one session.

[keyboardworkout]

Dr. Stuart McGill's thoughts.

The hip extension (reverse hyper) machine is an excellent trainer for hip extension but imposes a large posterior shear load on the back. It will create back troubles in some and should be considered with great caution.

[C123C]

If you want a reverse hyper, get the tilt top version. There is a world of difference between that & the flat version. As weisgarb stated, you can hyperextend with a flat version. Not so much with the tilt top. I never use mine in the flat position. I find face down, @$$ up to provide better traction & less stress on the lower back.

At some point I'm going to swap to a tilt top for this exact purpose (better traction). Never tried a tilt top but the upfront cost was damn high (only pricing Westside options). I'm guessing tilt with bent pendulum would be the way to go?

BTW - I've seen a significant impact on my lifts from RH use. Pretty similar magnitude (not effect) to what I've gotten from good mornings in impact of my squats. Really makes me come out of the hole solidly. I've actually gotten to the point where my hams/glutes can be inline or more dominant than my quads which for my build isn't typical. That said, everyone is different and I do agree that just trying an RH isn't enough, you need to train it for a period.

[cwcmac]

The first thing I'd ask is how much space you have. I'd have one is space wasn't a constraint but it is and I don't see enough benefit to wedging everything in an even tighter space

[Synthetickiller]

At some point I'm going to swap to a tilt top for this exact purpose (better traction). Never tried a tilt top but the upfront cost was damn high (only pricing Westside options). I'm guessing tilt with bent pendulum would be the way to go?

BTW - I've seen a significant impact on my lifts from RH use. Pretty similar magnitude (not effect) to what I've gotten from good mornings in impact of my squats. Really makes me come out of the hole solidly. I've actually gotten to the point where my hams/glutes can be inline or more dominant than my quads which for my build isn't typical. That said, everyone is different and I do agree that just trying an RH isn't enough, you need to train it for a period.

I had a long & drawn out situation with having someone fabricate one & ended up spending "only" $1600. The model I have is simliar to the "Ultra Supreme Reverse Hyper" & was going for double that ($3199) at the time. They've come down to $2600 now. For the money, I'd probably look at the bent pendulum like you mentioned as it's far easier to load. I've never used one, but $200 is not a high price to negate a lot of wasted time & frustration loading the machine. I don't get the point of the dual pendulum.

When I think about it, my squat stance has changed significantly since using the RH. I used to squat slightly wide stance with a high bar (weird, I know), so that could be why I wasn't feeling the effects as much. I was doing GMs, & GHRs to hit the posterior chain. My only question would be, "how were you using the RH?" I've seen a lot of people do stop & go with it. While this builds muscle, Louie claims it's not correct it & it should be one entire fluid motion to load the spine & create traction. When I was using mine, I was loading 6 total plates, sometimes throwing on 25s. I could do 8 plates, but I felt it was just too much stress on my spine if something bad were too happen.

[Mech6]

At some point I'm going to swap to a tilt top for this exact purpose (better traction). Never tried a tilt top but the upfront cost was damn high (only pricing Westside options). I'm guessing tilt with bent pendulum would be the way to go?

BTW - I've seen a significant impact on my lifts from RH use. Pretty similar magnitude (not effect) to what I've gotten from good mornings in impact of my squats. Really makes me come out of the hole solidly. I've actually gotten to the point where my hams/glutes can be inline or more dominant than my quads which for my build isn't typical. That said, everyone is different and I do agree that just trying an RH isn't enough, you need to train it for a period.

Just one point. If you get bent pendulum, you're stuck using the rollers. So make sure you enjoy this first. It also put's much more emphasis on lower back. Again, make sure. If all this is okwith you, then yes, get that one. Less plates.
If only someone would come up with a way to swap out different pendulums on the same machine...

[Mech6]

I had a long & drawn out situation with having someone fabricate one & ended up spending "only" $1600. The model I have is simliar to the "Ultra Supreme Reverse Hyper" & was going for double that ($3199) at the time. They've come down to $2600 now. For the money, I'd probably look at the bent pendulum like you mentioned as it's far easier to load. I've never used one, but $200 is not a high price to negate a lot of wasted time & frustration loading the machine. I don't get the point of the dual pendulum.

When I think about it, my squat stance has changed significantly since using the RH. I used to squat slightly wide stance with a high bar (weird, I know), so that could be why I wasn't feeling the effects as much. I was doing GMs, & GHRs to hit the posterior chain. My only question would be, "how were you using the RH?" I've seen a lot of people do stop & go with it. While this builds muscle, Louie claims it's not correct it & it should be one entire fluid motion to load the spine & create traction. When I was using mine, I was loading 6 total plates, sometimes throwing on 25s. I could do 8 plates, but I felt it was just too much stress on my spine if something bad were too happen.

Dave Tate wrote, over 15 years ago, you should load the RH with about 50% of your max squat, for sets of 8+.

[Synthetickiller]

Just one point. If you get bent pendulum, you're stuck using the rollers. So make sure you enjoy this first. It also put's much more emphasis on lower back. Again, make sure. If all this is okwith you, then yes, get that one. Less plates.
If only someone would come up with a way to swap out different pendulums on the same machine...

QFT.
I guess you have a project on your hands.

Dave Tate wrote, over 15 years ago, you should load the RH with about 50% of your max squat, for sets of 8+.

Hmm, I never came across that. When I have the opportunity, I'll have to test it out.
Have a link? I'd like to read the article. Dave had some good info back in the day before he gave Crossfit seminars.

I found this article on RHs: http://www.elitefts.com/education/no...h-development/
Doing timed RH is something I never considered (mostly b/c I think I'd injure myself), but I'd believe that'd build one hell of a posterior chain.

[keyboardworkout]

Mike Robertson's comments on the video above.

The question then becomes, what can we do to optimize reverse hyper performance? Even if someone has extension-based low back pain, I’d have a hard time prescribing that they go through repeated cycles of lumbar flexion and extension.

To improve performance, we can start by eliminating the most stressful portions of the lift. Simply reducing the range of motion on the eccentric portion of the lift and not allowing lumbar flexion will go a long way to reducing shear forces on the back.

Next, as suggested by Bill Hartman, we could move to a prone-on-elbows position. This would put someone in a more neutral low-back alignment, and encourage a more hip-dominant lift.

Finally, we could take away the momentum, lower the weight, and make sure we’re using the appropriate muscle groups to do the work. I remember a discussion I had years ago with Brad Gillingham, where he mentioned he was using very lights weights and focusing on the hip extension portion of the lift. I could be wrong but I seem to remember him saying he was only using 50 pounds or so on the lift. This is pretty significant, because the guy has been powerlifting for close to 20 years and still routinely deadlifts well over 800 pounds in competition!

I’ve done my best to be un-biased and look critically at the evidence both for and against use of the reverse hyper. I think that, as is typically recommended/prescribed, the exercise has a very high cost:benefit ratio, and as such shouldn’t be employed in strength programming.

However, with some minor modifications, you have an exercise that not only spares the spine, but develops the glutes and hamstrings to a high degree as well. This is something that would benefit not only athletes, but your average day-to-day client as well.

The devil is truly in the details, but I’m hoping that this post not only leads to some improved powerlifting totals, but improved longevity and resilience regardless of your fitness goals.

[Mech6]

Have a link? I'd like to read the article. Dave had some good info back in the day before he gave Crossfit seminars.

Was in his qna. Making a remark about how people either had too much or not enough weight on the machine.

[Synthetickiller]

Was in his qna. Making a remark about how people either had too much or not enough weight on the machine.

Thanks. I'll keep this in mind.

[C123C]

Just one point. If you get bent pendulum, you're stuck using the rollers. So make sure you enjoy this first. It also put's much more emphasis on lower back. Again, make sure. If all this is okwith you, then yes, get that one. Less plates.
If only someone would come up with a way to swap out different pendulums on the same machine...

You know. I did some research after you/I talked and realized the bent pendulum only comes with rollers. Deal breaker for me. I'll take tilt top and the versatility of both attachments any day. I'm not a fan of loading plates but it's not that bad either. That said Columbus isn't too far so I'm sure I could try some of these when it comes to it.

Just for the rest of the crew - there's a lot of ways a RH can be used. There are a few wrong ways (heavy hyper extension/compression under load) but certainly not a single right way which isn't dissimilar to the squat and variants either. Think - front squat in OL shoes with a pause for high reps vs. a heavy wide stance singles in canvas suit and gear...radically different but both can be effective for different purposes. When I read some articles on these I get the feeling the writer has never used one in his life or only tried it once. From my experience I've strengthened areas that could never seem to be strengthened in line with others using only the conventional lifts. Really shocked me. I've also done two full rehabs on them and literally have a brand new back when nothing else did much. I've tried to replicate it in every way imaginable. Can't be done except for the light super strict no momentum version which I'll agree to being worse than KB swings and I wouldn't own or even consider one if I was stuck with that one single variant.