Use keto-calculator.ankerl.com
It'll tell you EXACTLY what you macros, IN GRAMS, need to be in order to maintain your current weight. Then, you can enter in how much of a deficit you want, and it'll adjust the amount of fat to consume in order to create that deficit. If you want to lose body fat, you need to eat less fat than what your TDEE calls for. How much less fat that is depends on what you can tolerate. It might be as simple as going from 250 g of fat down to 150-175 g of fat each day.
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Thread: Keto does't Work Advice please
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11-20-2015, 09:10 AM #31
- Join Date: Nov 2015
- Location: Madison, Wisconsin, United States
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11-20-2015, 02:40 PM #32
Hello guys.
The second try i did this week is just about to end.Tomorrow i will make a refeed day with about 10.000 calories.
I hope this will shock my body because something is wrong.
SO this week i followed your guys advice and from 3000 calories i went down to 1500 cal.
I went from 250 g butter to 100 g...i ate:
"""A healthy keto diet would consist of meats, fatty fish, vegetables, eggs, nuts, olive oil, avocados etc""
So i cut the cal in half and i gained 2 kg.I am now 83 KG.
The only diffrence is that now i lift more in gym and i have a lot more energy than the time i ate like 250g only butter.
Tested my urine with keto sticks and the result is negative.No ketones whatsoever.
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11-20-2015, 05:19 PM #33
- Join Date: Sep 2012
- Location: Washington, United States
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Ok. I want you to understand that I am writing this to help you and not be mean or judgmental. Please keep that in mind.
From what you have written, I can tell that you have no clue about general nutrition, let alone Keto. And that's OK, everyone has to start somewhere. I suggest you do not start with keto. Trying to do a keto diet when you are not familiar with tracking macros and calories for yourself is a recipe for failure. And you can really see that is true because you are going in the opposite direction of your goals.
This is a good sticky from the nutrition section to start with: http://forum.bodybuilding.com/showth...hp?t=156380183
Learn how to estimate realistic calories for yourself. Find out your maintenance calories and diet around -20% from those calories so you can lose fat while maintaining / building strength in the gym. Learn how much protein, fat, and carbs you need and how to track them. Ideally, learn how to weigh your food so you can be sure that you are tracking as accurately as possible.
Once you can do those things, then I would suggest giving keto a try again...but not without checking out KetoGains Reddit (https://www.reddit.com/r/ketogains), watching youtube videos, and even reading articles about it. You need to plan this out wisely to get the results you want. Otherwise, you will keep getting the results you are getting.
Ask yourself, why do you want to eat a ketogenic diet so bad? Any diet that has you eat calories less than your maintenance will have you losing weight. If you're not going to take the time to research and do a well-formulated ketogenic diet, you are wasting your time.
And if you don't want to listen to me, are still intent on doing keto, then go to that reddit link and read the FAQ. It will literally address every issue / question you have posed (or even ones you haven't thought to ask) and you will quickly see how many ways you have been going wrong + how to fix it.
Hope this helps.
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11-20-2015, 08:28 PM #34
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11-21-2015, 02:13 PM #35
First of all,thank you very much guys for the good advices you are giving me.
I have a picture down here for you guys,please take a look!
From 3000 calories last week,i ate this week 1500 max,not because i am an expert but because i worked from 7am to 7 pm and i did not have any time to eat.
So i cut my cals in half and gained wight,that is tehnically imposibile but please belive me that the scale is not wrong.
I am not an expert like you guys,but also i am not a complete idiot.It is on the label:
100g butter=80 g fatt.
You do not need any school to track some macros.
Because i try to eat less(small things) and get high amounts of calories/energie. fat is like 9 cal per gram
I want my belly to look smooth,and not like a pregnant women because i ate like 3 breads and i am still hungry.
Anything that can be learned is good enought for me.
Thank you.
PS:
I didnt manage to eat todday 10.000 calories..i ate around 8000.
1 hamburger xxxl+2 pizza\s+ 3 kg fried potatos+400 grams nutella+bread+cookies+2 L coca cola
I hope i shocked a little bit my body so i can start tomorrow all over again.
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11-21-2015, 02:16 PM #36
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11-21-2015, 05:43 PM #37
Nice pic OK i see where you are getting your macros from, all that fat...: Start here http://keto-calculator.ankerl.com/
Next step go through your pantry (because i doubt you have actual real food in your fridge lol), get rid of EVERYTHING that has added fats and added sugar if it has sugar toss it. Next, start buying fiber foods: fiber tortilla's, double fiber bread, fiber bran cereal NOT fiber one because sugar high af, do not eat any sugar at all (unless you plan normalizing your blood sugar after eating, but you sound sedentary so you might not). On your "refeeds" you don't need to refeed at all just eat at maintenance that day and EAT NORMAL >_>
I have not experimented with that high cals on keto with that low weight but my 2nd point is this why are you using keto? You can make some really great gains in strength** if you're already lifting, just decrease -10 to 15%cals like another commentor said, if you have the time read a quickstart guide on nutrition.
** i don't think you'll gain actual muscle lb's though but it'll kill the fat and make you stronger! Track your exercise as well so that you can add that to your BMR to find your "real" tdee and cut 10-15% from there! <----- the thing about here is that if your bmr is like 2000 and u need a 500-1000 deficit for 1-2lb's, you can either eat 1000, or burn more= 2600 and eat 1600: but take away here is create some deficit it doesn't matter much as long as you've hit perfect diet macros: 65gfat MAX rest is gained/.6-1.25gProt per LBM depending on how active you were/remainder calories from Carbs, The remainder is a mixture meaning u might have a leftover of 200cal after hitting carb req. and this is used for filling in whatever u want.
Ex. BMR 1900 burn 2100 doing nothing all day, and around 2600 after some exercise for that day (be careful on cardio and how long, you have to time these to support lifts; too much cardio might bring your burn to 3000). Subtract 600-1000 from those numbers and that is how u lose 1-2lb's.
Literally if u have not quit junk food and fast food by now you're really setting yourself up for failure; a quick rundown: you may know this but probably not, all that processed "junk" will get immediately stored as fat and if u wanted to really do a proper refeed you would choose healthier carbs. I bet if you did a normal refeed at maintenance with HEALTHY food potatoes, high fiber grains, and such you'd be perfect; yes potatoes are not veg's they're grains. You KNOW when you need a refeed when u feel your muscles and they've condensed and gotten smaller, refeeding them fills them like waterbaloons and u can really feel it expanded. Another point: the junk that you eat like pizza burgers fries can be easily done at home healthfully, if u can't get off diet coke (or real coke, idk u), try carbonated water (i like ice) it's like fruit soda without as much fructose, and no sugar, but it still has splenda and potassium benzoate so go easy on this when you're eating vitamin C.
The thing about fiber: all those grains are insoluble, so try to get a portion of your day's worth from soluble, this will not help you lose weight* but it can seriously help you by allowing you to absorb less of the food you've eaten.
If you have a smartphone, the google fit app tracks movement during the day if u have your phone on you and tells you how many you have burned so far for the entire day. (like a fitbit)Last edited by Justjake19; 11-21-2015 at 06:25 PM.
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11-21-2015, 09:56 PM #38
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11-21-2015, 11:43 PM #39
- Join Date: Apr 2014
- Location: Buenos Aires, Capital Federal, Argentina
- Age: 29
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Actually, you CAN gain weight, in fact, I've done that. Being obese too much time, and coming with a too low calorie diet, I've times where I've eaten nothing almost (in terms of calories) and even gain weight to the next day. Of course, this was due to the excessive dieting, resulting in increase cortisol, and producing water weight (a lot). No, I wasn't gaining fat of course, but I wasn't losing weight some days, and even gaining (mostly this "cycles" were apppearing once every while, since I've lost a good amount of weight since then). The lesson here was to "relax" some days with the diet, and the weight will come off. Obviously, I was talking about too much dieting in too little time. If you're "not losing" weight after 2 days of calorie restriction, that is because you're mistracking something,.
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11-22-2015, 12:02 AM #40
1 day is possible due to fluctuations.
We're talking about a 80kg male here who lifts weights 6 days a week, who claims to have gained ~2kg on 1500 calories. That's impossible.
Nothing like this has ever been shown in controlled studies.
I suggest we keep thing simple for him: he's not counting calories correctly.Last edited by Mrpb; 11-22-2015 at 12:14 AM.
Recommended science based fitness & nutrition information:
Alan Aragon https://alanaragon.com/
Brad Schoenfeld http://www.lookgreatnaked.com/
James Krieger https://weightology.net/
Jorn Trommelen http://www.nutritiontactics.com/
Eric Helms & Team3DMJ https://3dmusclejourney.com/
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11-22-2015, 01:09 AM #41
You can gain 5 lb's dieting that hard, it's all water and usually goes away after a full day fast when wanting to release the water (done after huge cheat days/ refeeds usually) I DO NOT RECOMMEND fasting at your low weight, you're gonna lose muscle unless you hit your *weekly macros, factor those and do some math
BUT tbh, this person is NOT on a diet so it IS most likely fat u saw his cheat meal picture? He might eat this crap daily.
But yes, take out the huge refeeds and just do a day at maintenance.
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11-22-2015, 03:21 AM #42
^ OP was already eating a ketogenic diet. If he was actually eating 1500 calories (not that he was) he wouldn't be gaining 2kg in ~1 week.
Everyone comes up with theoretical examples but let's look for the far more obvious explanation: He's simply not tracking his calories correctly.
Food for thought: a study has showed that even trained dieticians can not track their calories correctly.
Think about that next time you hear a 80kg guy who works out 6 days per week claiming he's gaining weight on 1500 calories.
And let's pretend he actually ate 1500 calories for several days and by some bizarre twist of faith he gained 2kg. Then it's just a random meaningless fluctuation.Last edited by Mrpb; 11-22-2015 at 03:36 AM.
Recommended science based fitness & nutrition information:
Alan Aragon https://alanaragon.com/
Brad Schoenfeld http://www.lookgreatnaked.com/
James Krieger https://weightology.net/
Jorn Trommelen http://www.nutritiontactics.com/
Eric Helms & Team3DMJ https://3dmusclejourney.com/
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11-22-2015, 07:47 AM #43
- Join Date: Sep 2012
- Location: Washington, United States
- Posts: 7,775
- Rep Power: 27884
this. Way too much unawares in ths thread. I'm a 5'6 149lbs female and 1500 is below what I use to lose 1lbs a week. 1500 on a proper keto diet is going to give you water loss, not gain...especially after 3000 calories of a diet that was not ketogenic (if you are not in ketosis, you are not eating keto. Notice he never mentioned his carb count).
I would bet OP doesn't weigh his food, which is an issue in itself, keto or not. The fact that he believes eating 10,000 calories will shock his system instead of just making him fatter is indication this diet is probably not for him as he doesn't have even a basic level understanding of nutrition.
No offense, just keeping it real.
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11-22-2015, 07:53 AM #44
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11-22-2015, 09:48 AM #45
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11-22-2015, 09:55 AM #46
- Join Date: Sep 2012
- Location: Washington, United States
- Posts: 7,775
- Rep Power: 27884
If that is indeed what you ate, yes, that is keto. But, I am doubting your ability to track because your results are in opposition to your reports thus far. I have never heard of anyone doing keto correctly, in a deficit for 2 weeks and not losing a single pound. The reduction in water weight alone from the flushing of the kidneys would result in a loss in the scale.
Your protein is a bit low by the way. This is the best calculator I found: http://ketogains.com/ketogains-calculator/
By the way, tracking your macros isn't all that matters on keto. It is also necessary to track sodium, magnesium and potassium for optimum results.
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11-22-2015, 01:24 PM #47
Raise your protein to 97g-160g depending on how much exercise (this is a range), get your fats AWAY from the unhealthy ones. You're eating BUTTER and ADDING olive oil (practically drinking it, gross >_>), i'd opt you to lean more towards WHOLE dairy, WHOLE cheese, etc. Do not eat the butter or ADDED fats, these turn straight into fat and may be the cuplrit. Make sure you are BURNING 2200 for 1 pound, eating that much, and 2700 to lose 2 pounds. How keto works is by keeping your BLOOD SUGAR low af throughout the entire day, besides feeding period. If you are spiking it ur not keto. (if those 20g carbs are from pure sugar this is also your reason) like i said earlier you can have like 70g of carbs if 50 of those are from fiber (raised slowly).
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11-22-2015, 02:19 PM #48
Sorry to be an ******* here, but I've been following this thread and....this response looks like a huge load of misinformation here. I'm not an expert on keto but from my own research on keto I think you've got a lot wrong here. You advocate whole dairy instead of butter (news flash: butter is whole dairy) and cheeses instead of olive oil (unhealthy you say?) but there's some evidence that too much dairy can derail keto. And not sure where you got that these turn straight into fat in the body, especially when on keto? Also not sure where you got 2200 cals for 1 lb and 2700 cals for 2 lbs from?? Keto does in fact help keep your blood sugar steady but that's not 'why' it works in the first place. I agree that OP may not have done all of his research but it's possible that crappy, bad information like this is keeping him confused in the first place? Can some of the vets weight in on this and instruct appropriately?
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11-22-2015, 02:46 PM #49
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11-22-2015, 02:58 PM #50
Hello ladyj,
Thank you for the reply.
I try not to take whey protein....as it was suggested on the forum.
Also i do not know exactly how many .g of protein will kik me out of ketosis,so i try to take some protein...not too much..not too little.
Sodium,potassium,magnesium,calcium,vitamin C...i take every day 2 tablets disolved in 250ML water...as a supliment recomended by the doctor.
Thank you again.
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11-22-2015, 07:11 PM #51
- Join Date: Sep 2012
- Location: Washington, United States
- Posts: 7,775
- Rep Power: 27884
You're welcome. You are polite so I do not mind sharing knowledge
You don't have to take whey for protein, just eat more meat. Fatty fish and other meats are fine and also help you meet your fat intake. You have to eat a ridiculously high amount of protein to get kicked out of ketosis, so don't worry about that. As long as you are eating less than 30g net carbs a day, you will reach ketosis.
It is important to take a certain amount of each of those supplements, like sodium should be at least 5000mg to replace the salts that will be lost from your body flushing water. Otherwise, you will feel tired, have headaches, possibly cramping and heart arrhythmia. The FAQ from reddit I linked you earlier talks about it in detail. Someone on keto has different needs of those electrolytes.Last edited by missladyj; 11-22-2015 at 07:18 PM.
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11-22-2015, 07:17 PM #52
- Join Date: Sep 2012
- Location: Washington, United States
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Agreed, is misinformation. I eat straight fat all the time. Coconut oil is a MCT and used immediately by the liver even when you are not eating a ketogenic diet. Can even register ketones in your pee not on keto when eating coconut oil.
Fat isn't stored as fat unless in a surplus or paired with carbs.
And one is not 100% in ketosis all the time. Blood sugar rises after a lifting session for instance. I know people who track their blood ketones and notice random spikes despite not eating more than 20g net carbs a day.
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11-22-2015, 11:48 PM #53
"unless paired with carbs" ty for enlightening us. i agree about the sodium but 5g is alot i've been on around 800-1500 for 7 weeks... and usually a mutlivitamin covers those deficiencies, i'd like to know more about how fats when taken in overdose value: 90% of the diet is safe and not gained? Let's say this person ate majority from unsat. and a portion from sat's no trans vs all coconut oil with a mix of Olive Oil (this is the combo of unsats and sats).
And i agree my dairy statement was a little harsh, i'm allergic to dairy so i'm not a drinker or eater of it.
i like this tool ty for sharing http://ketogains.com/ketogains-calculator/
http://www.bodybuilding.com/fun/can-...enic-diet.htmlLast edited by Justjake19; 11-23-2015 at 12:30 AM.
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11-23-2015, 12:00 AM #54
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11-23-2015, 02:13 AM #55
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11-23-2015, 07:12 AM #56
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11-23-2015, 07:26 AM #57
To Original Poster (OP): To get the most out of this community and help you reach your goals of weight/fat loss and increase in energy, I suggest you do 3 things.
1) Find out where macros should be as per calculators that others have posted. Let us know the results and where your macros should be. This will help us understand what you should and shouldn't be eating.
http://ketogains.com/ketogains-calculator/
2) Post details about your self. It's possible that you're TDEE is lower than you think.
- What's your current body weight? Estimated body fat?
- How long do you workout for and what kind of workouts? Is it 10 minutes of running, jogging, walking? Do you do intense weight lifting or are you breathing calmly throughout the workout?
- What's your day like? Do you move around a lot or do you sit at a desk?
3) As annoying as this might be, could you post pictures of the food you're eating? Just one picture of your plate before you eat is enough. I know I've had issues where I estimate something is 4 oz and it turns out to be pretty different. This will help you understand measurements and will allow you to accurately calculate your portions going forward.dy/dx (Weight Loss) = Calories
Goals:
Squats: 275 5x5
Bench: 225 4x6
Pendlay: 205 4x6 (Achieved)
Deadlift: 315 5x5 (Achieved
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11-23-2015, 07:31 AM #58
- Join Date: Sep 2012
- Location: Washington, United States
- Posts: 7,775
- Rep Power: 27884
A multivitamin is not even close to covering electrolyte needs. I would suggest reading the reddit FAQ I linked Dragolea. It's covered in detail there. As for fat being 90% of the diet, not sure why you are worried about such an extreme example, but if one was in a deficit with 90% fat in their diet, they'd lose weight including fat and a crap ton of muscle. If they were eating a surplus, they'd get fat. The FAQ is very detailed, check it out. Might clear up many things for you.
Your statement about dairy wasn't harsh, just untrue. I eat dairy every day, lots of butter, heavy cream, whipped cream, and various cheeses. In fact, calcium from dairy has been shown in studies to possibly be superior for fat loss. Lyle McDonald mentions it in a couple of his books.
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11-25-2015, 08:54 AM #59
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11-25-2015, 09:14 AM #60
Where did you get this idea to eat 100 gram butter?
It's totally pointless, not good for your health and not good for your weight loss.
A healthy ketogenic diet consist of meats, fatty fish, vegetables, eggs, nuts, olive oil, avocados etc. Some butter is fine in moderation.Recommended science based fitness & nutrition information:
Alan Aragon https://alanaragon.com/
Brad Schoenfeld http://www.lookgreatnaked.com/
James Krieger https://weightology.net/
Jorn Trommelen http://www.nutritiontactics.com/
Eric Helms & Team3DMJ https://3dmusclejourney.com/
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