Albert Einstein on capitalism

[freekid2002]

Wanna make an argument or just a statement?

I'm fine with the latter.

[DubBrah]

It absolutely can be proven both rationally and empirically, and it existed, according to some people, for multiple centuries in ancient Ireland.

We have never had pure capitalism in modern times.

https://peacerequiresanarchy.wordpre...cient-ireland/

So the world ditched pure capitalism because ot works. And ancient Ireland is currently thriving? History isn't helping your case. But to stay on topic, the OP accurately defines our current political / economic system. So what are we talking about? Make believe or reality? Past or present? We live here and now not in ancient Ireland and not in a textbook. So challenge the OPs/Einstein's definition of capitalism specific to the OP and save your economic theory for another post.

[keels141]

sorry op I only listen to guys who know what a comb is. lol @ einstein srs. bet I could beat him at checkers.

Nice sig, I read it as Top Kangaroo. Lemme throw another shrimp on the barbie for ya

[Freek314]

So the world ditched pure capitalism because ot works. And ancient Ireland is currently thriving? History isn't helping your case. But to stay on topic, the OP accurately defines our current political / economic system. So what are we talking about? Make believe or reality? Past or present? We live here and now not in ancient Ireland and not in a textbook. So challenge the OPs/Einstein's definition of capitalism specific to the OP and save your economic theory for another post.

You can't just scapegoat an entire economic philosophy, dude. What I am trying to tell you is that Einstein is not even talking about actual capitalism. He's making the same mistake that every leftist I have ever argued with does - blaming capitalism for things that did not occur because of capitalism.

If I believed that cats were just small dogs and told you that I hate all dogs because one bit me, but I was actually bitten by a cat, can you understand that I would be wrong?

[DubBrah]

You can't just scapegoat an entire economic philosophy, dude. What I am trying to tell you is that Einstein is not even talking about actual capitalism. He's making the same mistake that every leftist I have ever argued with does - blaming capitalism for things that did not occur because of capitalism.

If I believed that cats were just small dogs and told you that I hate all dogs because one bit me, but I was actually bitten by a cat, can you understand that I would be wrong?

Your words not mine brother. I'm not scapegoating anything. I think the OP is harder on our culture of greed in economics and politics than it is on your beloved economic philosophy.
I'll quote a conservative to make my point, "You go to war with the army you have not the one you might want or wish to have." - Don Rumsfeld.
Right now we have a political and economic system that is close to that described in the OP. I'll veture to say that we agree it is broken. So what do we do about? Pure capitalism won't fix it. We need realistic solutions enacted over time.

[Freek314]

Your words not mine brother. I'm not scapegoating anything. I think the OP is harder on our culture of greed in economics and politics than it is on your beloved economic philosophy.
I'll quote a conservative to make my point, "You go to war with the army you have not the one you might want or wish to have." - Don Rumsfeld.
Right now we have a political and economic system that is close to that described in the OP. I'll veture to say that we agree it is broken. So what do we do about? Pure capitalism won't fix it. We need realistic solutions enacted over time.

Capitalism is a very realistic solution. Literally the only hurdle is phasing out government.

[lockdev]

Socialism leads to lazy people reaping rewards they didn't earn, inflated worthless government, and high taxes for everyone.
Capitalism leads to a small rich class and a large poor class. Eventually corporations run the country(what is happening to America right now).

Capitalism in its early stages is the GOAT. But, unfortunately, most of the power and money ends up in the hands of a few individuals after decades of playing the Capitalist game. Capitalism thrives on free markets and competition. Eventually competition becomes nearly impossible, and you end up with oligopolies and monopolies. Many of them go unchecked because they own the politicians.

Societies tend to move on almost a sine wave between socialism and capitalism.

When the situation of the poor becomes dire, they usually revolt and take power from the rich(see the French Revolution).

Eventually in a socialist society, people realize that there is no incentive to work, and in order to improve their situation they need to reward hard work. Enter the rise of Capitalism. Kind of like what is going on with China right now. Although China's kind of fuarked because they're "communist" but almost a feudal-like state with extreme wealth inequality, which doesn't stick to communist principles.

I have found that those that support either side feverishly are often idiots that do not understand economics.

Yes, Capitalism is the GOAT most of the time, but in its final stages, it's downright horrific.

[DubBrah]

Capitalism is a very realistic solution. Literally the only hurdle is phasing out government.

It is not realistic. Have you even met another human being? How about one that is actively not passively participating in the global economy? How about the top 1000 richest and most powerful? It's a pipe dream unless someone or something hits the reset switch on our current way on life on planet earth. And if that happens we will have bigger problems than what economic philosophy or philosophies we should collectively adopt.

[_Muskelberg_]

Einstein wasn't an economist, retard.

Yes, I've read this before and yes, I do study economics. I spend far too much time arguing with anti-reality leftists who can't understand scarcity already.

Oh you study economics.... how cute.


How can anyone on this earth actually think he knows more than Einstein (no matter what field). To say that "his field was mathematics" is so moronic I can't even begin to argue...

You are nothing man. I am nothing. So sh*t the fukk up and read your economics books.

[PaddySaevio]

Capitalism is a very realistic solution. Literally the only hurdle is phasing out government.

Let's redefine here.

"The degree of competition, the role of intervention and regulation, and the scope of state ownership vary across different models of capitalism. Economists, political economists, and historians have adopted different perspectives in their analyses of capitalism and have recognized various forms of it in practice. These include laissez-faire or free market capitalism, welfare capitalism, crony capitalism, corporatism, "third way" social democracy and state capitalism. Each model has employed varying degrees of dependency on free markets, public ownership, obstacles to free competition, and inclusion of state-sanctioned social policies."

You're talking about free market capitalism, with no governmental intervention. "Pure capitalism", if you will. Governments of various types can still co-exist with capitalism, it's the intervention and regulation you have an issue with. Please feel free to counterpoint if I've missed your intention.

Now - how do you know that Einstein was talking about "pure capitalism"? That is, your preferred version of it?

[GettinSwoleBrah]

That nikka made atomic bombs n ****. Nah we need a tribal system yo, we need the sheltered the food and the woman like the Indians in huts. Hunt all day eat and **** all night ya heard

[HollywoodBody]

damn. whoa. that's crazy

[Freek314]

Socialism leads to lazy people reaping rewards they didn't earn, inflated worthless government, and high taxes for everyone.
Capitalism leads to a small rich class and a large poor class. Eventually corporations run the country(what is happening to America right now).

Capitalism in its early stages is the GOAT. But, unfortunately, most of the power and money ends up in the hands of a few individuals after decades of playing the Capitalist game. Capitalism thrives on free markets and competition. Eventually competition becomes nearly impossible, and you end up with oligopolies and monopolies. Many of them go unchecked because they own the politicians.

Societies tend to move on almost a sine wave between socialism and capitalism.

When the situation of the poor becomes dire, they usually revolt and take power from the rich(see the French Revolution).

Eventually in a socialist society, people realize that there is no incentive to work, and in order to improve their situation they need to reward hard work. Enter the rise of Capitalism. Kind of like what is going on with China right now. Although China's kind of fuarked because they're "communist" but almost a feudal-like state with extreme wealth inequality, which doesn't stick to communist principles.

I have found that those that support either side feverishly are often idiots that do not understand economics.

Yes, Capitalism is the GOAT most of the time, but in its final stages, it's downright horrific.

The main reason competition is stifled is government. Government AKA the most powerful tool of collectivism is what brings capitalism to ruin. Well, it really prevents capitalism from even existing...

It is not realistic. Have you even met another human being? How about one that is actively not passively participating in the global economy? How about the top 1000 richest and most powerful? It's a pipe dream unless someone or something hits the reset switch on our current way on life on planet earth. And if that happens we will have bigger problems than what economic philosophy or philosophies we should collectively adopt.

Capitalism addresses human nature when the perverse influence of political power is removed from the equation.

Oh you study economics.... how cute.


How can anyone on this earth actually think he knows more than Einstein (no matter what field). To say that "his field was mathematics" is so moronic I can't even begin to argue...

You are nothing man. I am nothing. So sh*t the fukk up and read your economics books.

What a dickrider. No-one knows everything.

Let's redefine here.

"The degree of competition, the role of intervention and regulation, and the scope of state ownership vary across different models of capitalism. Economists, political economists, and historians have adopted different perspectives in their analyses of capitalism and have recognized various forms of it in practice. These include laissez-faire or free market capitalism, welfare capitalism, crony capitalism, corporatism, "third way" social democracy and state capitalism. Each model has employed varying degrees of dependency on free markets, public ownership, obstacles to free competition, and inclusion of state-sanctioned social policies."

You're talking about free market capitalism, with no governmental intervention. "Pure capitalism", if you will. Governments of various types can still co-exist with capitalism, it's the intervention and regulation you have an issue with. Please feel free to counterpoint if I've missed your intention.

Now - how do you know that Einstein was talking about "pure capitalism"? That is, your preferred version of it?

Most of those "types of capitalism" aren't capitalism at all. They are oxymorons popularized by leftists to demonize capitalism. It's like the left's theatrical vendetta against trickle down economics, something that has never been a part of economic thought. Serious.

Capitalism refers to a very specific thing.


To be clear, since I keep bringing up the left: I'm a centrist. I don't lean left or right. My only real issue is with political power.

[NorthernLad93]

I study economics. It is PLAINLY obvious to ANYONE that studies economics seriously that socialism/communism are complete bullsht based in anti-reality gibberish. They are philosophies that attempt to justify themselves using flawed economic models and outright dishonesty.

LMAO. where do you study it? My friend studied economics at the University of Liverpool, here in the UK which is a pretty highly ranked University, and he's a lefty/liberal borderline socialist.

[PaddySaevio]

Most of those "types of capitalism" aren't capitalism at all. They are oxymorons popularized by leftists to demonize capitalism. It's like the left's theatrical vendetta against trickle down economics, something that has never been a part of economic thought. Serious.

Capitalism refers to a very specific thing.

To be clear, since I keep bringing up the left: I'm a centrist. I don't lean left or right. My only real issue is with political power.

Ok. At least we understand eachother's measure of "capitalism" now.

You've refuted Einstein's definition of capitalism, not the application. Do you agree or disagree with his statement as a reference to (in your terms) quasi-capitalism or not?

[Freek314]

LMAO. where do you study it? My friend studied economics at the University of Liverpool, here in the UK which is a pretty highly ranked University, and he's a lefty.

I didn't say I went to school for it. I said I studied it. I am self-taught and have been studying economics/philosophy for around 8 years now. I remember when I was 17-18 I asked my mom what the economy was and how stock prices were decided after seeing Alan Greenspan on tv one day talking about what I can only assume now was Fed interest rate policy. Literally had no clue what it was all about, and now I can tell you pretty much anything you would care to know.

[JB05]

He's pretty much right, wealth is becoming concentrated into fewer and fewer hands

But please, conservatives, tell us more about how tax cuts are the solution to this and every other problem

[Freek314]

Ok. At least we understand eachother's measure of "capitalism" now.

You've refuted Einstein's definition of capitalism, not the application. Do you agree or disagree with his statement as a reference to (in your terms) quasi-capitalism or not?

I will respond in bold.

Private capital tends to become concentrated in few hands, partly because of competition among the capitalists, and partly because technological development and the increasing division of labor encourage the formation of larger units of production at the expense of smaller ones. Investments from savings should be rewarded, as without them we would not have the resources necessary to create capital goods, and competition as well as the division of labor results in further increases in efficiency of production, raising not only the fund necessary to reward the initial investments made by the capitalists but effectively increasing the total amount of wealth for everyone at once , The result of these developments is an oligarchy of private capital the enormous power of which cannot be effectively checked even by a democratically organized political society. I believe the iron law of oligarchy in all human endeavors. To deny this is to say that there are no leaders and no followers in human society. I reject, however, the implication that this oligarchy is exclusive, fool-proof, or accessed by some magical privilege in instances where political power is absent. The aforementioned competition would ensure a revolving oligarchy based on merit, determined by customer satisfaction and patronage instead of the politically erected barriers such as regulation we have now which prevent newcomers from competing. This is true since the members of legislative bodies are selected by political parties, largely financed or otherwise influenced by private capitalists who, for all practical purposes, separate the electorate from the legislature. As stated before, this has nothing to do with capitalism. This is a problem with collectivism, not individualism. The consequence is that the representatives of the people do not in fact sufficiently protect the interests of the underprivileged sections of the population. They never do. and never will. Moreover, under existing conditions, private capitalists inevitably control, directly or indirectly, the main sources of information (press, radio, education). It is thus extremely difficult, and indeed in most cases quite impossible, for the individual citizen to come to objective conclusions and to make intelligent use of his political rights. This is no longer the case due to the invention of the internet, although it's mostly resulted in cat memes, porn, etc due to the preceding lack of education resulting from STATE, not private, control of education
It is referred to as the dictatorship of the bourgeoisie. The political class is the true bourgeoisie. They have ultimate power over even the capitalists, although their short-sightedness and greed often cause this to appear and function as opposite.

EDIT: forgot to end my point about education

[pyfagoras]

Einstein was a genius as a physicist, but that doesn't validate everything he says about other subjects.

[Conspiracybrah]

Let's redefine here.

"The degree of competition, the role of intervention and regulation, and the scope of state ownership vary across different models of capitalism. Economists, political economists, and historians have adopted different perspectives in their analyses of capitalism and have recognized various forms of it in practice. These include laissez-faire or free market capitalism, welfare capitalism, crony capitalism, corporatism, "third way" social democracy and state capitalism. Each model has employed varying degrees of dependency on free markets, public ownership, obstacles to free competition, and inclusion of state-sanctioned social policies."

You're talking about free market capitalism, with no governmental intervention. "Pure capitalism", if you will. Governments of various types can still co-exist with capitalism, it's the intervention and regulation you have an issue with. Please feel free to counterpoint if I've missed your intention.

Now - how do you know that Einstein was talking about "pure capitalism"? That is, your preferred version of it?

You can just as well change every "capitalism" in those terms with socialism and they'd say just as much as before, absolutely nothing. The term capitalism only has meaning when it is clearly defined, which it is not in any of those above. There is only one type of capitalism and that is an economic system with private ownership of the means of production. All of the systems you mentioned above has significant degrees of public ownership of means of production and thus cannot be a capitalist system. If you still insisted on calling it capitalism because there is some element of private ownership of the means of production you'd be just as valid in calling our system today socialism which would prove both terms meaningless. The only term that can meaningfully describe our system today is a mixed system, whereby capitalist and socialist elements go together.

This. Everyone's played Monopoly. All fun and games at the start but look what happens after you've been playing for 1 - 2 hours? That's where the market ends up.

There is absolutely zero evidence that the market moves towards complete monopoly when it is unregulated. There is a lot of evidence of the opposite occurring, monopolies arising because of government involvement in the economy.

He's pretty much right, wealth is becoming concentrated into fewer and fewer hands

But please, conservatives, tell us more about how tax cuts are the solution to this and every other problem

Taxes have risen every year for over a century now. Regulation levels keeps rising and has continued to do so for a long time. Private property has been in a decline for decades. Please tell me more about how "capitalism" causes wealth to concentrate into fewer and fewer hands.

[chibito]

Einstein´s cawk size?

[GettinSwoleBrah]

Serious **** ok. There's a ladder. Slave cow workers all the way up to rich elite. No way to solve this problem. Will never be solved end of story. Ur either at the bottom of the top it's a dog eat dog world out there and someone's going to get hurt. I dreamt of a world where all souls will be equal but won't happen in our lifetime. Everyday it's a competition to the top of the scale. And this is how world war 3 is going to start overpopulated people fighting about money.

[HobgoblinJim]

Just wanted to point out to you super capitalism folks that during the early 1900's when regulation was at its lowest and monopolies were commonplace...

There was no middle class
Living conditions were deplorable
Quality of products (specifically food) was baddddd
Wealth was held by like 10 people
Here comes the depression...

But brb government regulation the problem. I swear, some "self taught" economics master like freak274737565774 up there and all you other idiots should learn some basic history. Or at the very least look at how certain economies (Sweden, Germany) currently are doing quite well with a majority of jobs being public sector and a lot of consumer and worker protections.

Cliffs: you're being close minded and dumb.

Sources:I actually studied at a top 100 university in economics, history, and political science.

[CaseyJamess]

Poor people tend to reproduce more yet don't want the accountability of having kids - they want 'the rich' who they are so jealous of to look after them.
If you earn under a certain wage bracket - don't have kids so there isn't a drain on the economy. Be accountable, be a responsible human. The world owes you jack ****.

[Freek314]

Just wanted to point out to you super capitalism folks that during the early 1900's when regulation was at its lowest and monopolies were commonplace...

There was no middle class
Living conditions were deplorable
Quality of products (specifically food) was baddddd
Wealth was held by like 10 people
Here comes the depression...

But brb government regulation the problem. I swear, some "self taught" economics master like freak274737565774 up there and all you other idiots should learn some basic history. Or at the very least look at how certain economies (Sweden, Germany) currently are doing quite well with a majority of jobs being public sector and a lot of consumer and worker protections.

Cliffs: you're being close minded and dumb.

Sources:I actually studied at a top 100 university in economics, history, and political science.

That's funny, since you don't know that both the German and Swedish economies are far more capitalist than socialist in their structure, and neither even come close to a majority of jobs being in the public sector.

But, ignoring that, let's talk about the industrial revolution. Actually, I'm not even going to bother. Here's a podcast for you to dispell all of your bullsht... Ohh yeah, it's run by a historian with strong ties to the Austrian school of economics.

http://tomwoods.com/podcast/ep-355-w...onomic-topics/

Enjoy learning facts for free, Mr. Top 100 school.

[HobgoblinJim]

That's funny, since you don't know that both the German and Swedish economies are far more capitalist than socialist in their structure, and neither even come close to a majority of jobs being in the public sector.

But, ignoring that, let's talk about the industrial revolution. Actually, I'm not even going to bother. Here's a podcast for you to dispell all of your bullsht... Ohh yeah, it's run by a historian with strong ties to the Austrian school of economics.

http://tomwoods.com/podcast/ep-355-w...onomic-topics/

Enjoy learning facts for free, Mr. Top 100 school.

Sorry, I don't trust links from people who barely graduated high school.

[Freek314]

Sorry, I don't trust links from people who barely graduated high school.

Troll confirmed. Have a nice day brah.

[cncman]

I didn't say I went to school for it. I said I studied it. I am self-taught and have been studying economics/philosophy for around 8 years now. I remember when I was 17-18 I asked my mom what the economy was and how stock prices were decided after seeing Alan Greenspan on tv one day talking about what I can only assume now was Fed interest rate policy. Literally had no clue what it was all about, and now I can tell you pretty much anything you would care to know.

watchout guys a 26 y/o with 0 education thinks he knows more than Einstein did about ANYTHING.

[jamesbwbevis]

only thing wrong with capitalism that I can see is that people who dont deserve to be rich want to be and complain.

add something of value to society and you will be rich, if you cant shut the fuk up I dont care how the wealth is spread out.

[HobgoblinJim]

Troll confirmed. Have a nice day brah.

So why didn't you go to college? Too dumb? Or too poor?

Cuz if it's the latter you should probably be mad about our current form of capitalism. My parents had enough money to pay for my college. Yay American Capitalism, sorry poor brah.