Which is better for hypertrophy: Power Shrug vs Strict Shrug?

[phamine]

I've been strict barbell shoulder shrugging (3x8) and strict dumbbell shrugging (3x14-16). In both exercises, I hold for a contraction at the top.

What works to build your traps in terms of hypertrophy more?

Pulling more weight or controlling lighter weight?
Power or strict shrugs?
Contraction at the top or no?

[induced_drag]

I've been strict barbell shoulder shrugging (3x8) and strict dumbbell shrugging (3x14-16). In both exercises, I hold for a contraction at the top.

What works to build your traps in terms of hypertrophy more?

Pulling more weight or controlling lighter weight?
Power or strict shrugs?
Contraction at the top or no?

Easy..... Deadlifts

[drudixon]

What Id said, or power cleans.

[induced_drag]

What Id said, or power cleans.

NICE!!!! x1000. And the best part of both is the payoff is soooo much more in the end.

[silverlightning]

which ever gives you the best results. I've done some heavy shrugs and didn't really see a difference. I really don't shrug anymore, but lately i'll do shrugs behind the back on the smith machine with light weight after my back training. today I just did rack pulls. 315x3x10.

[mtpockets]

Deads

Farmers

[anonymous]

The question should be rephrased as "Which exercise has the potential to destroy your shoulder joint and damage your lower back in the process?"

[TouaregV8]

Barbell shrugs, or any shrugs for that matter, are in my opinion the most "over done" exercise by men in any gym. You see guys with 3, 4, or even 5 plates shrugging for their lives with a ridiculously small range of motion. I think it makes them feel manly moving all that weight, but yet their traps are still small. There are far better exercises as the others have mentioned. Don't be "that guy".

[alwayschestday]

Excellent question op...and Sh*t..Im THAT guy. but for me the problem is deads works so much body that it doesnt isolate the traps enough for me. So i need a much better Trap isolation exercise. any ideas.

[angrypenguin54]

I dont know if I have ever seen a guy that can DL 4 plates that doesnt have decent traps.

[mtpockets]

Excellent question op...and Sh*t..Im THAT guy. but for me the problem is deads works so much body that it doesnt isolate the traps enough for me. So i need a much better Trap isolation exercise. any ideas.

The dead's should hit the traps pretty good.


Try a shrug/farmers combo

Grab a couple 45 plates, shrug them 6-8 reps
without putting them down farmer walk them,
shrug again, walk them again and shrug again.


repeat this several times.

Your traps will scream.

[induced_drag]

Well this thread is another great example of advice in the >35. Two opposing opinions and look at the differences in the physiques OR the progress made (like Dru) of the one side, and guys who take the opposing point of view.

Just saying....

OP....traps are a muscle group that gets hit in many ways. Most guys I know who develop big traps do lots of movements that utilize them to build big shoulders and a big back at the same time. Just having big traps looks stupid. Again, I am back to saying working a muscle like traps in isolation is kinda stupid. (unless you are just finishing it off). Put your work in larger compound movements and give big and strong ALL OVER....not just in your traps.

I dont do any direct trap work....but I would say my traps are probably one of the best developed parts of my body. It is just what happens when you deadlit, OHP, row....etc

Deadlifts FTW!

[alwayschestday]

"I am back to saying working a muscle like traps in isolation is kinda stupid. (unless you are just finishing it off). Put your work in larger compound movements and give big and strong ALL OVER....not just in your traps."

Its got to really depend on your goals. and I would think just big all over also starts to eat into the idea of bodybuilding itself, which I would assume requires lots of body part specific isolated movements. In my case yeah sure I could heavy deadlift all the time but what adverse effects am I going to see and where? Hows it going to effect my training for other things, triatholons, 5k's, sprints etc. You can literally squat your way out of many sports and in some cases, squat your way in. So isolated movements have many many benefits. if not only for body specific safety issues. IE you need traps but have a crap back. so maybe seated dumbell shrugs are the key. So I question if I want to go down the route of 4 plate deads just for traps. what will I gain, what will I lose..

[drudixon]

"I am back to saying working a muscle like traps in isolation is kinda stupid. (unless you are just finishing it off). Put your work in larger compound movements and give big and strong ALL OVER....not just in your traps."

Its got to really depend on your goals. and I would think just big all over also starts to eat into the idea of bodybuilding itself, which I would assume requires lots of body part specific isolated movements. In my case yeah sure I could heavy deadlift all the time but what adverse effects am I going to see and where? Hows it going to effect my training for other things, triatholons, 5k's, sprints etc. You can literally squat your way out of many sports and in some cases, squat your way in. So isolated movements have many many benefits. if not only for body specific safety issues. IE you need traps but have a crap back. so maybe seated dumbell shrugs are the key. So I question if I want to go down the route of 4 plate deads just for traps. what will I gain, what will I lose..

Deadlifts done properly can only help all those things you described. II don't hate isolation movements (I do calves directly), but when doing a 3 day a week full body routine, isolation movements have no room in the exercise selection. If I do a 5 day split, I don't get enough frequency, which FOR ME, is the only way I grow. Like anything, build a theory, test the theory, then evaluate. The nice part of this being a long haul endeavor, taking two months to see if your traps grow is no big deal.

[silverlightning]

well since OP is in Brooklyn, maybe OP can meet up with body hard so he can decide if OP needs to be doing direct trap work. if you're into powerlifting, WL, you're not going to have a balanced physique or train for it. if you're into bodybuilding, then yes you should work on bringing up weak body parts via isolation. it all depends on your goals and how you picture your physique. you just have to experiment and see what best works to achieve your desired goal.

[anonymous]

If you have a crappy lower back like me and want to get a huge dose of trap hurting in without being limited by hip or lumbar issues, I very much enjoy doing shrugs to failure followed immediately by rack deads. It allows you to use a slightly lower weight on the rack deads but still waste the traps in a couple of sets (ie I'd shrug with perfect form with 275 on the shrug bar for @10 reps then immediately do another @10-12 with just 405 on rack deads, rather than putting 585 on and hitting the rack deads first)

For general thoracic mobility issues I tend to do a ton of seated cable row horizontal shrugs, usually right after rows, but I have horrific mobility and a blown thoracic disc so I'm "special" lol

[DuracellBunny]

I'm not a fan of shrugs in general, but if I do them, I do a version that most people won't be familiar with: grip the plates instead of the bar (full size bar).

As soon as you do a few reps you will understand the difference and the reason for doing them.

[induced_drag]

Its got to really depend on your goals. and I would think just big all over also starts to eat into the idea of bodybuilding itself, which I would assume requires lots of body part specific isolated movements. In my case yeah sure I could heavy deadlift all the time but what adverse effects am I going to see and where? Hows it going to effect my training for other things, triatholons, 5k's, sprints etc. You can literally squat your way out of many sports and in some cases .

That makes no sense what so ever. As for your second statement..... You sound like those people who say...."I would lift weights but I am afraid of getting big". First off....food will have a big determination on that. MANY guys lift for years and stay at the same weight classes. Weight training is a internal part of of most any top athletes training regimen.

"Squatting yourself out of a sport"....well here is an bodybuilder guy who goes toe to toe with top football players in athletics in several areas... if you want to be a marathon runner, extra mass wont benefit you, sure...we get it.

My question to you....is if you have no interest in putting on mass, why did you join a "bodybuilding" website?

. if you're into powerlifting, WL, you're not going to have a balanced physique or train for it. .

What a silly comment. This is just where these guys who trumpet isolation work take things. They dont realize that we evolved lifting things without the use of hammer strength machines in the process. Most powerlifters are MUCH more developed that you think....they just happen to carry more fat generally so you dont notice it. Lifting like a power lifter does should not give you an "Unbalanced" physique if you are doing right. Most powerlifters train everything equally in a push pull configuration. They do supporting exercises to help secondary muscle groups... They just generally dont do the volume or "pump" work that bodybuilders do.

Think powerlifting will leave you with an unbalanced physique. Check out Dave Gulledge. A beast of a powerlifter who decided to cut up. I am sure many on here would like to have as "unbalanced" of a physique as he has......

[DuracellBunny]

That makes no sense what so ever. As for your second statement..... You sound like those people who say...."I would lift weights but I am afraid of getting big". First off....food will have a big determination on that. MANY guys lift for years and stay at the same weight classes. Weight training is a internal part of of most any top athletes training regimen.

"Squatting yourself out of a sport"....well here is an bodybuilder guy who goes toe to toe with top football players in athletics in several areas... if you want to be a marathon runner, extra mass wont benefit you, sure...we get it.

My question to you....is if you have no interest in putting on mass, why did you join a "bodybuilding" website?











What a silly comment. This is just where these guys who trumpet isolation work take things. They dont realize that we evolved lifting things without the use of hammer strength machines in the process. Most powerlifters are MUCH more developed that you think....they just happen to carry more fat generally so you dont notice it. Lifting like a power lifter does should not give you an "Unbalanced" physique if you are doing right. Most powerlifters train everything equally in a push pull configuration. They do supporting exercises to help secondary muscle groups... They just generally dont do the volume or "pump" work that bodybuilders do.

Think powerlifting will leave you with an unbalanced physique. Check out Dave Gulledge. A beast of a powerlifter who decided to cut up. I am sure many on here would like to have as "unbalanced" of a physique as he has......

You missed the pic of when he carbed up (he was depleted in your one)

[DuracellBunny]

In my case yeah sure I could heavy deadlift all the time but what adverse effects am I going to see and where? Hows it going to effect my training for other things, triatholons, 5k's, sprints etc..

I squat and DL heavy, I've done triathlons and I swim 2 miles 2-3x a week. Cmoore has done 500lbs+ iirc as well as doing ultra-marathons.

[silverlightning]

That makes no sense what so ever. As for your second statement..... You sound like those people who say...."I would lift weights but I am afraid of getting big". First off....food will have a big determination on that. MANY guys lift for years and stay at the same weight classes. Weight training is a internal part of of most any top athletes training regimen.

"Squatting yourself out of a sport"....well here is an bodybuilder guy who goes toe to toe with top football players in athletics in several areas... if you want to be a marathon runner, extra mass wont benefit you, sure...we get it.

My question to you....is if you have no interest in putting on mass, why did you join a "bodybuilding" website?











What a silly comment. This is just where these guys who trumpet isolation work take things. They dont realize that we evolved lifting things without the use of hammer strength machines in the process. Most powerlifters are MUCH more developed that you think....they just happen to carry more fat generally so you dont notice it. Lifting like a power lifter does should not give you an "Unbalanced" physique if you are doing right. Most powerlifters train everything equally in a push pull configuration. They do supporting exercises to help secondary muscle groups... They just generally dont do the volume or "pump" work that bodybuilders do.

Think powerlifting will leave you with an unbalanced physique. Check out Dave Gulledge. A beast of a powerlifter who decided to cut up. I am sure many on here would like to have as "unbalanced" of a physique as he has......

with all due respect. stop comparing enhanced lifters to non enhanced lifters. those guys are exceptions. although i do agree that PL, WL, etc have more balanced physiques nowadays; in terms of aesthetics and symmetry, it's not the focus of their training. I will take my sorry physique any day over an enhanced physique. as for balance i will clarify i mean in terms of proportion, symmetry, etc. no disrespect to them. and no, i'm not a fan of pro bodybuilding physiques the last 5, 10 years. bubble, bubble guts.

[induced_drag]

You missed the pic of when he carbed up (he was depleted in your one)

WOW......yea....them there powerlifters are all unbalanced

. Cmoore has done 500lbs+ iirc as well as doing ultra-marathons.

Forgot about him as an example. First time walk-on makes american ninja finals at 40+. Yea...lifting heavy stuff will work you right out of some sports

with all due respect. stop comparing enhanced lifters to non enhanced lifters. those guys are exceptions. although i do agree that PL, WL, etc have more balanced physiques nowadays; in terms of aesthetics and symmetry, it's not the focus of their training. I will take my sorry physique any day over an enhanced physique. as for balance i will clarify i mean in terms of proportion, symmetry, etc. no disrespect to them. and no, i'm not a fan of pro bodybuilding physiques the last 5, 10 years. bubble, bubble guts.

It is funny, you lump "enhanced" physiques all into one category. Lots of guys with "enhanced" physiques that look like total crap....even worse are those you can barely tell lift. How about Frank Zane....You telling me you would take your physique over his?....

In regard to your statement "PL, WL, etc have more balanced physiques nowadays;"

OK...I'll shoot your theory down from two sides in the same shot. Just go back to pre-steroid era bodybuilders. Not only were their physiques representative of the pinnacle of what you can achieve naturally, those guys were also "powerlifters". It was not broken out like it is today. Bodybuilders of that era trained as strongmen as well. Most were VERY strong as it was more than just big muscles. Guess what... most of their routines were heavy compound movements (boy I sound like a broken record).

You know...all the verbal bantering and I dont think I have ever seen a single picture of your physique. (not that you have to post pics) I dont care if your "hoouge" or ripped.... but what kind of progress have you made? You give an awful lot of advice. I would hope you know what you are talking about...but it does not seem like it at times. I mean come on dude. You have been on here for 7 years. Maybe if you have not made good progress, consider that you might be doing it wrong.....

[DuracellBunny]

Just go back to pre-steroid era bodybuilders. Not only were their physiques representative of the pinnacle of what you can achieve naturally, those guys were also "powerlifters". It was not broken out like it is today. Bodybuilders of that era trained as strongmen as well. Most were VERY strong as it was more than just big muscles. Guess what... most of their routines were heavy compound movements (boy I sound like a broken record).

I don't know what year it stopped (quite a long time ago), but BB'ers used to need above a certain number of athletic points to compete in the shows; so you would get throwers, boxers, wrestlers etc. The BB'ing shows were held at the same venue on the same day as the lifting competitions (like the AC does now), so many people would compete in the morning in lifting (to earn the required athletic points) and then compete that evening in the BB'ing show.

[silverlightning]

i never ever said not to train with compound movements. i'm familiar with the pre and golden era of body building; which is what I model my training after; somewhat. except strongman type training. in this context, don't put up an enhanced physique and compare to a natty. i've posted videos of my training, not to show it's the best, or how strong i am(which i'm not) but more as a journal as i was logging for almost a year. it's all around the basics and other variations, not every movement is recorded of course. right now I'm 185 lbs, not ripped, not huge, just someone that enjoys training. that's what it's all about right. maybe you should tell Dorian Yates that he was doing it wrong using the hammer strength; i'm sure he'll get a kick out of it.

sorry, forgot how to imbed. go to about 6:00 minute mark. not a single squat was done that day. oh and yeah i'm comparing a enhanced to a non enhanced training.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wEYCXOds7Wc

[induced_drag]

i never ever said not to train with compound movements. i'm familiar with the pre and golden era of body building; which is what I model my training after; somewhat. except strongman type training. in this context, don't put up an enhanced physique and compare to a natty. i've posted videos of my training, not to show it's the best, or how strong i am(which i'm not) but more as a journal as i was logging for almost a year. it's all around the basics and other variations, not every movement is recorded of course. right now I'm 185 lbs, not ripped, not huge, just someone that enjoys training. that's what it's all about right. maybe you should tell Dorian Yates that he was doing it wrong using the hammer strength; i'm sure he'll get a kick out of it.

sorry, forgot how to imbed. go to about 6:00 minute mark. not a single squat was done that day. oh and yeah i'm comparing a enhanced to a non enhanced training.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wEYCXOds7Wc

The all over manner in which you are posting (taking whatever side of an argument you want at that time eg saying you are not referencing enhanced athletes and then a few posts later using that as your example) shows me you are just arguing and not really trying to make any real points.

I however have been consistent when I say that for 95% of natural guys they should base their routines around heavy compound movements and leave iso work for a very small portion of their efforts.

I also believe that most people who say they need to "bring up" a body part, really just need to gain overall mass. Most people saying this are far far underweight (lbm wise) in most conditions.

Nothing has changed about what I am saying.

No worries man....but you give out an awful lot of advice yet it seems you have very little knowledge (either demonstrated or empirical) Some of your statements are out of left field to say the least. Glad you are enjoying your fitness pursuits though!

[Jtbny]

I however have been consistent when I say that for 95% of natural guys they should base their routines around heavy compound movements and leave iso work for a very small portion of their efforts!

This, and I'd add that any isolation done should be targeted to improve the compounds (target the specific weakness in the lift). Far too much attention, IMO, is spent worrying about such small muscle groups in the general population. I'd leave that for the more advanced lifters. Again just my uneducated fat guy opinion

[phamine]

Thanks for all the insightful replies.

I tweaked my lower back/hip (again) and had to remove deadlifts and bent over rows from my program. Waiting until I feel better before reintroducing them back in.
I agree deads do build traps as I see people who never do shrugs, but have big traps.

So I treat shrugs as a supplement rather than a replacement in my program.

I am fairly lean coming off a bulk and I'm looking to go into a long term 10-15lb bulk for the next year. Just looking to cut a little further before doing so.

[Mr. Someday]

Heavy rack deads were a staple movement of mine for years....never once shrugged during that time. I still do little to no shrugging now and they are a respectable size....

[Mark1T]

Heavy rack deads were a staple movement of mine for years....never once shrugged during that time. I still do little to no shrugging now and they are a respectable size....

I remember you mentioning this a few years back and why I implemented heavy rack deads on Back day.

[alwayschestday]

"Forgot about him as an example. First time walk-on makes american ninja finals at 40+. Yea...lifting heavy stuff will work you right out of some sports"

I dont see anyone in prof sports (save for the juiced up football players) that look like you ID? are you saying your physique is the ideal all around sports killing best in the world look? for hmmm a boxer, how about basketball player, runner maybe (ill even give you the 40yd dashers) tennis maybe, surely it must be beneficial for golfers, jai alai, ping pong. the point is your body wouldn't translate well, to very many sports if none at all. Competing at the highest of levels. So why you ask doesn't every professional athlete deadlift 675lbs if it can only help them, as you say? I really don't think that pull would have made Jordan better, do you? At some point what you call "mass" well, simply put. Gets in the way of sh*t. and actually starts to become a problem. So when I state (ask) how can I control a specific muscle growth without interfering with other parts of the body. That IS specifically bodybuilding. As per Wikipedia... first line "Bodybuilding is the use of progressive resistance exercise to control and develop one's musculature.[1]"