If an AIRPLANE is on a TREADMILL will it take off? (Physics)

[JewishSuperHero]

Yes it will take off. The plane will lift when there is enough air under the wings. That's what the big turbines are for. It doesn't matter if it's moving or not.

[LaCosaNostra90]

Air needs to be passing over the wings (airfoil). And no the prop doesn't do this.

Not that complicated.

Theres nothing stopping the plane from moving forward, wether its on a treadmill or a massive conveyer belt the size of the runway. The plane is moving forward and it will take off.

[PeenutButtah]

Yes. Airplanes don't generate forward velocity through the wheels.

Spot on, this.

nope. the wheels would spin, but there is no moving air around the plane to create a pressure differential for it to take flight

edit

bunch of fukin aeronautical engineers above me

Lost it at aeronautical

[Chairman7w]

You guys HAVE to be roll breading each other.

SRS


This can't be real life. You can't be that stupid.




The answer is no, of course the plane will not take off. Airspeed is all that matters. The air moving over the top and bottom of the wings. Period.

[pieceofdebri79]

This actually makes it easier to understand.

I couldn't give a fukk how fast the treadmill and the wheels are spinning. I still can push the toy plane around.

But I still wonder what would actually happen to the wheels and the treadmill..... will they keep accelerating untill the plane finally lifts off?

The wheels should. In relationship to how fast the treadmill is going.

[Brozef]

You just contradicted yourself

GG

No he didn't. Different concepts.

[LaCosaNostra90]

You guys HAVE to be roll breading each other.

SRS


This can't be real life. You can't be that stupid.




The answer is no, of course the plane will not take off. Airspeed is all that matters. The air moving over the top and bottom of the wings. Period.

They already proved it does take off on Mythbusters

[NoobGains23]

Okay, that makes sense. Repped

No it doesnt.
Imagine you next to a treadmill, its already pretty loud, whirring at 20mph.
As soon as you push the car faster than 20mph, the treadmill kicks in and blasts it up to 30mph. You're like 'wtf no treadmill gonna disrespect my strength gains' so you use both arms to push the car with as much force as you have. Brb treadmill just kicks it up to 150mph, car just stays where it is and your arms are fatigued.
Strong lift off *******

[Trojans86]

So there's literally no way to make a treadmill that'll keep a jet engine stationary? I keep going back and forth between who I believe.

These guys are just trolling you buddy. If you relax all assumptions and stick in the theoretical then you are correct that there is no way to make a treadmill do that.

[lildave]

Yes but it would take off backwards

[NoobGains23]

You guys HAVE to be roll breading each other.

SRS


This can't be real life. You can't be that stupid.




The answer is no, of course the plane will not take off. Airspeed is all that matters. The air moving over the top and bottom of the wings. Period.

Thanks, someone with a brain

[Brozef]

Theres nothing stopping the plane from moving forward, wether its on a treadmill or a massive conveyer belt the size of the runway. The plane is moving forward and it will take off.

No air flow over the wings, no lift. Not that complicated.

If the power of the prop can accelerate the plane fast enough on the treadmill to create enough airflow over the wings to make lift, then yes the plane will take off.

[LaCosaNostra90]

You guys HAVE to be roll breading each other.

SRS


This can't be real life. You can't be that stupid.




The answer is no, of course the plane will not take off. Airspeed is all that matters. The air moving over the top and bottom of the wings. Period.

The second you add any thrust from the jet engines the plane would go off the front of the treadmill and take off. doesnt matter how fast the treadmill is going.

even on a giant conveyer belt the size of the runway going 23029r29300329492494853494092959385843858585 miles per hour the plane will still take off

[MrGreenz]

We are talking about airplanes, which rely on rolling ground speed to create enough airflow under the wings to produce lift. If the specific plane was tested and concluded that it needed 200mph rolling ground speed to lift off as a minimum, that is what it needs.

That said, if 200mph worth of wind was created via a huge fan, the plane would lift off from stationary. Treadmill cant produce that though

No he didn't. Different concepts.

I highlighted the parts you must've missed

[Redfish225]

Posts itt are busting my guts, lmao. The answer is no and it's so simple. Reminds me of:

If a plane crashed on the border of USA and Canada, which side do they bury the survivors on?

[NoobGains23]

I highlighted the parts you must've missed

In a day to day scenario (or more importantly in the treadmill scenario) the planes rolling speed is most important.

Thats why i said earlier in the thread (must have been missed) that a better question would be, 'If there was a huge fan creating 200mph of airflow, would the plane take off?'.
Yes it would, might not go forward but it would lift off at least.

If a treadmill has a fixed speed of 600mph, the planes jet engines have a fixed rolling speed of 400mph.
The plane needs 600mph of airflow to take off.
There is a fan as well as the treadmill which puts out 200mph of airflow
The plane takes off from a stationary position. As soon as it leaves the treadmill, it now has all that energy that was used on the treadmill (via the jet engines) which can be used as forward thrust.

[Armord]

if it was the plane in the pic on that treadmill in the pic then no that plane isn't going anywhere with those supports blocking the wings.

[PrimeraRS]

Too many unknown variables, you guys are wasting your time, as am I by replying to this thread.

[drvillain]

4 aerodynamics for flight

Lift, weight, thrust, and drag. You don't get those with a treadmill

Where is the air that will reflect downward off the wings for lift?

[chroneos]

Yes it will take off. The plane will lift when there is enough air under the wings. That's what the big turbines are for. It doesn't matter if it's moving or not.

You guys HAVE to be roll breading each other.

SRS

This can't be real life. You can't be that stupid.

The answer is no, of course the plane will not take off. Airspeed is all that matters. The air moving over the top and bottom of the wings. Period.

Uhhhh...

[ironicinori]

No it doesnt.
Imagine you next to a treadmill, its already pretty loud, whirring at 20mph.
As soon as you push the car faster than 20mph, the treadmill kicks in and blasts it up to 30mph. You're like 'wtf no treadmill gonna disrespect my strength gains' so you use both arms to push the car with as much force as you have. Brb treadmill just kicks it up to 150mph, car just stays where it is and your arms are fatigued.
Strong lift off *******

BRB working out with your feet on the ground and an ab roller on the tread mill. Turn it up as high as you want, the workout (force exerted) will be the same as if it was on the ground. The wheel AND the treadmill will spin faster, but you'll still be getting a weak workout and you'll still not post an avi.

[chino3]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9V8cnMJSEAk


the ground/treadmill/whatever has zero impact on take offs the way people are picturing it. look at this video. he is basically able to angle 45 degrees up and just take off. picture the air beneath his wheels during ascension as the treadmill matching his speed. nada.

[LaCosaNostra90]

[32vape]

[QUOTE=NoobGains23;1393009043]We are talking about airplanes, which rely on rolling ground speed to create enough airflow under the wings to produce lift. If the specific plane was tested and concluded that it needed 200mph rolling ground speed to lift off as a minimum, that is what it needs.

That said, if 200mph worth of wind was created via a huge fan, the plane would lift off from stationary. Treadmill cant produce that though[/QUO

They do not rely on rolling ground speed, they rely on airspeed across the wings to lift. If the treadmill was going 200 mph and the engines on the plane were producing the small amount of thrust it would take to overcome the friction of the tires on the treadmill the plane would be stationary relative to the air. The WHEELS are going 200 mph not the plane. Now throttle up the engines the plane would start moving forward relative to the air and would take off at 200 mph airspeed. Yes at this point the wheels would be turning at 400 mph and there might be more friction, but just the wheels.

[shibby19]

This video shows it better than the myth busters video. Once you have enough thrust to overcome the frictional resistance of the bearings of the wheels, you don't have to increase thrust to match the speed of the tread mill. You can keep throttle constant and continually raise the speed of the treadmill, and the plane wont move. It will take off once thrust is increased, even if the speed of the treadmill is increased to try to match the plane.

[Kavliari]

Still haven't heard an answer to this:

1. You're holding a toy car in place on a treadmill
2. Treadmill's speed increases from 1mph to 1000mph
3. You can still move the toy car back and forth with your forearms.
4. It's not harder to hold it in place the faster it goes.
5. You could easily push it forward until it is not on the treadmill anymore i.e. liftoff.


inb4 "it would accelerate to keep up with you"

In the "infinite accelleration" scenario, the wheels AND the treadmill would accelerate so instantaneously that they'd both blow up, so we have to ignore friction in the treadmill and the wheels.

There's a massive difference between take off and not being on a treadmill anymore.

The aircraft would nose dive off the end of the treadmill, if you consider that take off then I'll understand why this retarded debate has stretched on this far.

[Brozef]

I highlighted the parts you must've missed

I missed nothing. It's all about lift from the airfoils.

A plane WILL take off when NOT rolling if enough air speed over the airfoils is provided.

Wheels moving doesn't matter.


I must be getting trolled, I'm done here. I don't care if anyone gets it or not.

[TS3g]

Try placing a 45lb plate on a running treadmill and pushing it forward...good luck. Set that same plate on a skateboard and do the same thing, piece of cake. Crank the speed up on the treadmill until the skateboard wheel bearings melt, well then, we're back to good luck. Friction of the bearings and rolling resistance of the tires are they keys here, along with their mechanical limits. There is no definitive answer though because OP doesn't provide enough boundary conditions, so, assuming the bearings won't go all Chernobyl and the tires don't explode, and also assuming the only airflow over the wings comes from movement of the plane, then we are left with the following scenarios...

1) If the plane cannot create enough thrust to overcome the friction/rolling resistance of the wheels created by the moving treadmill, the plane actually slides backwards
2) If the plane thrust equals the friction/rolling resistance of the wheels created by the moving treadmill, the plane sits still
3) If the plane creates enough thrust to overcome the friction/rolling resistance of the wheels created by the moving treadmill, but not enough to move the plane forward fast enough to create lift from air movement over the wings, the plane simply rolls forward
4) If the plane creates enough thrust to overcome the friction/rolling resistance of the wheels created by the moving treadmill AND the plane moves forward fast enough to create lift from air movement over the wings, the plane takes off and flies to North Carolina
5) OP is a *******

EDIT: Fuuu, I'm a slow typer, about 748 posts were made since I started. To put it simply, we need more information

[chroneos]

1st video = takeoff

2nd video = no takeoff

[ironicinori]

There's a massive difference between take off and not being on a treadmill anymore.

The aircraft would nose dive off the end of the treadmill, if you consider that take off then I'll understand why this retarded debate has stretched on this far.

Not sherrif srs or 2nd grade reading comprehension.. FINE. say instead of pushing it off the edge, I threw it as hard as I could and it had toy plane wings on it. IT WOULD TAKE OFF. Treadmill has to be long, but it will take off the same as if it was on the ground. I'm running out of ways to simplify this so a child can understand.

1st video = takeoff

2nd video = no takeoff

lol if you tie a normal plane to the ground it's not gonna take off either. video proves the same thing mythbusters did.