LEDDY'S LEGS/PUSH/PULL - 8 week program

[Jasonk282]

I really don't feel it necessary to get into specifics about when and how to add weights. This is not a thread about breaking walls. If you aren't steadily increasing in weight or reps that's not my fault, I'm not here to map out your progression.

unfortunately that's exactly what progression is in regards to programming.

[thedadbodleddy]

unfortunately that's exactly what progression is in regards to programming.

Unfortunately this is a program and not a progression thread.

Progression and program are two entirely different discussions. Can one help the other? Absolutely.

That does not mean they are fused together. You can apply any method of progression to any exercise.

"The main point I am trying to make here is that there are no set-in-stone 100% “right” parameters as far as volume or frequency go, as they are not only individual specific, but also very greatly in the individual over time. There are only generalizations and guidelines when dealing with setting optimum frequency and volume." - quote taken from the posted "classic push pull leg split" above

[Jasonk282]

Unfortunately this is a program and not a progression thread.

Progression and program are two entirely different discussions. Can one help the other? Absolutely.

That does not mean they are fused together. You can apply any method of progression to any exercise.

a program consist of exercises/lifts, frequency, volume, deloads and progression...so when you create a program you must have a method of progression, all you did was list lifts. that is not a program.

[thedadbodleddy]

a program consist of exercises/lifts, frequency, volume, deloads and progression...so when you create a program you must have a method of progression, all you did was list lifts. that is not a program.

I edited my post above. I think that is all that is needed for the explanation on progression.

Just because person a) might need a deload does not mean person b) needs a deload. Person a) might progress twice as fast as person b) because one is getting newbie gains and the other is a guy that "used to" work out.

I really don't feel it fair to lump every individuals progression and deload schemes into the same pile.

Fair enough?

[dlagr21]

@ dadbod .... you're trolling these guys right?

I just read through this entire pitiful thread and while you claim to be open to criticism you have shot down everything all the other guys say and tell them that it's just their opinion.

You're so contradictory and hypocritical in this thread that it cannot be a serious thread.

You - I really don't feel it necessary to get into specifics about when and how to add weights
Jason K - unfortunately that's exactly what progression is in regards to programming.
You - Unfortunately this is a program and not a progression thread.

You have done this run around on almost every other user that's commented on this thread. Your join date is questionable. No pic. Low post count.

Conclusion, this is a troll thread.

[Jasonk282]

I edited my post above. I think that is all that is needed for the explanation on progression.

Just because person a) might need a deload does not mean person b) needs a deload. Person a) might progress twice as fast as person b) because one is getting newbie gains and the other is a guy that "used to" work out.

I really don't feel it fair to lump every individuals progression and deload schemes into the same pile.

Fair enough?

good luck with your 'program' in 2015 and beyond...

[TheViking1992]

Unfortunately this is a program and not a progression thread.

Progression and program are two entirely different discussions. Can one help the other? Absolutely.

That does not mean they are fused together. You can apply any method of progression to any exercise.

A complete program has a set rate of progress, as it has to match the overall frequency and volume of the program.

[thedadbodleddy]

@ dadbod .... you're trolling these guys right?

I just read through this entire pitiful thread and while you claim to be open to criticism you have shot down everything all the other guys say and tell them that it's just their opinion.

You're so contradictory and hypocritical in this thread that it cannot be a serious thread.

You - I really don't feel it necessary to get into specifics about when and how to add weights
Jason K - unfortunately that's exactly what progression is in regards to programming.
You - Unfortunately this is a program and not a progression thread.

You have done this run around on almost every other user that's commented on this thread. Your join date is questionable. No pic. Low post count.

Conclusion, this is a troll thread.

Yes...all these comments in regards to progression and nothing to do with the actual effectiveness of exercises or the way they are grouped/spaced out. Are you a troll?

I conceded to the fact that there may be too many exercises and too much isolation "fluff" and even said that I would work on it as I went along with the program.

I disagreed with the argument that DB compound lifts were "useless" and "unnecessary" which is very much a personal opinion and not a statement backed up by facts.

I disagreed with the gentleman who said my program was "crap" and that I should just follow the old school classic push pull legs routine, which is also a personal opinion and had nothing to do with facts.

"The main point I am trying to make here is that there are no set-in-stone 100% “right” parameters as far as volume or frequency go, as they are not only individual specific, but also very greatly in the individual over time. There are only generalizations and guidelines when dealing with setting optimum frequency and volume."

I am just going to leave that here again.

[blue9steel]

Congratulations on realizing a "bro split" wasn't the optimum choice for you.

Ok, so first the good stuff:

Weekly frequency is 1.75 which is within the 1.5-2.5 reasonable range.
Program is an A/B PPL, which is a decent choice but may or may not be optimum for the trainee depending on their strength levels, goals, age, injury status, etc.
Routine includes the six basic movement patterns, so that's good. (vertical push/pull, horizontal push/pull, quad dominant leg / hip dominant leg)
Program contains at least a 1:1 ratio of pulling to pressing exercises, in fact there is probably slightly more pulling than pressing

And then the bad stuff:

Routine contains a huge amount of isolation work in comparison to the compound movements
Routine is pretty long, unlikely a trainee strong enough to benefit from PPL can finish in under 90 minutes
Routine contains a number of sub-optimal exercises that use up training space for little gain
Routine contains a number of unnecessary exercise overlaps that waste training time
Progression method isn't listed which suggests the trainee doesn't have a progression method
One size doesn't fit all but many trainees strong enough to benefit from PPL will need regular deloads which aren't listed
Program contains an excessive amount of direct arm work for the amount of training space available
Program length is listed as 8 weeks which is pretty short, if it's a block then where are the other blocks?
Routine doesn't contain pullups or chinups and doesn't have the excuse of being for powerlifting

I'm sure I missed some stuff, but that's what I see right away. It may not need to be totally scrapped, but at the least it needs some fairly heavy revision.

[thedadbodleddy]

Congratulations on realizing a "bro split" wasn't the optimum choice for you.

Ok, so first the good stuff:

Weekly frequency is 1.75 which is within the 1.5-2.5 reasonable range.
Program is an A/B PPL, which is a decent choice but may or may not be optimum for the trainee depending on their strength levels, goals, age, injury status, etc.
Routine includes the six basic movement patterns, so that's good. (vertical push/pull, horizontal push/pull, quad dominant leg / hip dominant leg)
Program contains at least a 1:1 ratio of pulling to pressing exercises, in fact there is probably slightly more pulling than pressing

And then the bad stuff:

Routine contains a huge amount of isolation work in comparison to the compound movements
Routine is pretty long, unlikely a trainee strong enough to benefit from PPL can finish in under 90 minutes
Routine contains a number of sub-optimal exercises that use up training space for little gain
Routine contains a number of unnecessary exercise overlaps that waste training time
Progression method isn't listed which suggests the trainee doesn't have a progression method
One size doesn't fit all but many trainees strong enough to benefit from PPL will need regular deloads which aren't listed
Program contains an excessive amount of direct arm work for the amount of training space available
Program length is listed as 8 weeks which is pretty short, if it's a block then where are the other blocks?
Routine doesn't contain pullups or chinups and doesn't have the excuse of being for powerlifting

I'm sure I missed some stuff, but that's what I see right away. It may not need to be totally scrapped, but at the least it needs some fairly heavy revision.

Absolutely excellent and thorough response.

I will take your knowledge and apply it as best as I can sir.

Thank you.

[Promusclegainer]

Show me the exercises that hit the muscles I listed then.

"Day Three – Legs

Back or Front Squats or Leg Press – 4 sets x 6 – 10 reps
Lunges, Split Squat, or Step-Ups – 4 sets x 6 – 10 reps
Calf Raises – 3 sets x 6 – 10 reps"

Still waiting for Hamstrings...

how about this

Day One – Pull

Deadlifts (conventional, sumo, snatch-grip,trap bar) – 5 sets x 5 reps
Rows (barbell, dumbbell, machine or t-bar) – 5 sets x 5 reps
Weighted Pull-Ups or Chins – 5 sets x 5 reps

did you see hamstring?

[thedadbodleddy]

how about this

Day One – Pull

Deadlifts (conventional, sumo, snatch-grip,trap bar) – 5 sets x 5 reps
Rows (barbell, dumbbell, machine or t-bar) – 5 sets x 5 reps
Weighted Pull-Ups or Chins – 5 sets x 5 reps

did you see hamstring?

Snatch deadlifts are probably the ONLY thing that will really hit your hammies, and even then he gives you a choice of exercises to use and doesn't specify when to use them or how often to switch up(am I supposed to do conventional sumo or snatch?). I do see a lot of back and biceps work though.

(just my personal experience that conventional deadlift doesn't hit my hamstrings as good or with the same development as a stiff-legged variation, but it does work lower back like nothing else)