So now you go to prison if you are religious??

[thomashenry]

Her joining the cult of born again Christians doesn't mean she can refuse to do her publicly held job. Other people in her office are doing it now. If she was opposed, she should have let them handle those cases.

Cult ? do tell, would you be so kind & expand on the Cult aspect definition , I`d enjoy reading that thought process

[Xscoot]

Cult ? do tell, would you be so kind & expand on the Cult aspect definition , I`d enjoy reading that thought process

Your post history will answer this for you Thomas.

[NorwichGrad]

I agree with Iceman, too. I am a Christian, but this is not about religion. It is embarrassing that politicians are using it as an argument and even prominent Christians are saying she is a model for standing up to her beliefs. To deny people their rights under the law is not very Christian.

I agree with Iceman and you as well.. I am also a Christian.. And to quote my Atheist friend Corbi, "F&^K RELIGIONS." Yup.. You heard me right.. F&^j religions.

You see, Jesus DOES NOT want religion. He wants a RELATIONSHIP with Christians. Think of the other religions. They work hard to achieve that status ABOVE, whatever that may be.. Think of Jesus.. He walked on earth to die for our sins. The Son of God is reaching down (as opposed to us mortal sinners having to reach UP) all we have to do is accept Him as our Savior and live according to His Word.

Back to Iceman's point, in the past I would usually waste time disagreeing and arguing with non-Christians.. But this time, I will call out my fellow Christians.. The world is phucked up NOT because of "THEM", the others who don't believe in God..NO. The world is phuckked up because of US Christians who failed to live a Christian-like life.


So to my fellow Christians: Our job is to LOVE others. That's it.. Leave the judging to GOD.. (Well, love others to a certain extent.. If somebody wants to hurt you or your loved ones, then by all means LOCK AND LOAD AND FIX BAYONET.. MOLON LABE, bitches.)

Hooah??

Hooah..


And in the meantime.... World War III is brewing..

[Xscoot]

World War III is brewing..

It has already started.

[NorwichGrad]

It has already started.

Yes it has.. But most Americans are still unaware..

[Bo_Flecks]

Matthew 10:22

And you will be hated by all for My name's sake. But the one who endures to the end will be saved.

Just keep your faith in God, brother.

Now where's that part again where Jesus preached against the gay people? My Bible seems to be missing that chapter...

[JohnnyBurst]

Now where's that part again where Jesus preached against the gay people? My Bible seems to be missing that chapter...

Found it for you

https://www.********.com/OccupyDemoc...5/?pnref=story

[7Seconds]

Now where's that part again where Jesus preached against the gay people? My Bible seems to be missing that chapter...

The primary passage cited as proof that God is against gay marriage is Leviticus 18:22: “‘Do not have sexual relations with a man as one does with a woman; that is detestable." This seems pretty clear and concise. But, there is no merit in using the Old Testament (which Leviticus is a part of) as anything except a historical reference. When Jesus came he did away with the old law, and created a new covenant.

So, Christians really only have the New Testament to use as a guide.
In the New Testament, Paul wrote to the Corinthians in 1 Corinthians 6:9-10 a whole list of people that would not be able to enter the kingdom of heaven. But, the translation is rough, and the homosexual acts and situations that Paul describes all involve sex with children. There is no contemporary equivalent to today's definition of "gay" in the New Testament.

[sy2502]

Good points, however let us assume for a moment the contrary that she had the job before the law, so then couldn't she then state the change in the law forced her to resign because it violated her ability to practice her religion as was given her right?

Following that at which point did the State say to her or ask her if she had a religious or personal objection to the task of her job that would force her dereliction from duty?

A dereliction that could be argued that the state is now forcing on her because she by the doctrine of her faith is unable to perform and they took no steps to provide other means of recourse for those aggrieved by her religious or other stance nor asked her of when she was provided the job in the official capacity of a state official.

I understand the difficulty of her predicament. But think of it this way. Suppose a Muslim joins the Army at a time in which the US is not at war with any Muslim country. Then, while he's serving, the US goes to war in a Muslim country. What happens to this person if he says "sorry folks, I can't kill other Muslims, I didn't know when I joined the Army that I could be sent to kill Muslims and it's against my religion". What would happen to him? I don't know much about the military environment, but my guess would be that he would be told something like "when you joined the army you agreed to follow orders. You are refusing to follow these new orders, therefore you are being insubordinate (or whatever the English name for that is) and you are going to be court marshaled for it".
This lady took the oath of upholding the law, and that oath includes new laws. She should have known that was a possibility. And let's face it, we have seen gay marriage come down the road for a while now, it's not exactly a surprise to anyone.

[Brackneyc]

I understand the difficulty of her predicament. But think of it this way. Suppose a Muslim joins the Army at a time in which the US is not at war with any Muslim country. Then, while he's serving, the US goes to war in a Muslim country. What happens to this person if he says "sorry folks, I can't kill other Muslims, I didn't know when I joined the Army that I could be sent to kill Muslims and it's against my religion". What would happen to him? I don't know much about the military environment, but my guess would be that he would be told something like "when you joined the army you agreed to follow orders. You are refusing to follow these new orders, therefore you are being insubordinate (or whatever the English name for that is) and you are going to be court marshaled for it".
This lady took the oath of upholding the law, and that oath includes new laws. She should have known that was a possibility. And let's face it, we have seen gay marriage come down the road for a while now, it's not exactly a surprise to anyone.

Hopefully in the year 2015 most people considering the service would recognize the potential to be fighting Muslims. Secondly, I suspect he would be discharged without much fanfare. Not that hard to get out of the Military these days.

[Hibiscus09]

I agree with Iceman, too. I am a Christian, but this is not about religion. It is embarrassing that politicians are using it as an argument and even prominent Christians are saying she is a model for standing up to her beliefs. To deny people their rights under the law is not very Christian.

I agree with Iceman and you as well.. I am also a Christian.. And to quote my Atheist friend Corbi, "F&^K RELIGIONS." Yup.. You heard me right.. F&^j religions.

You see, Jesus DOES NOT want religion. He wants a RELATIONSHIP with Christians. Think of the other religions. They work hard to achieve that status ABOVE, whatever that may be.. Think of Jesus.. He walked on earth to die for our sins. The Son of God is reaching down (as opposed to us mortal sinners having to reach UP) all we have to do is accept Him as our Savior and live according to His Word.

Back to Iceman's point, in the past I would usually waste time disagreeing and arguing with non-Christians.. But this time, I will call out my fellow Christians.. The world is phucked up NOT because of "THEM", the others who don't believe in God..NO. The world is phuckked up because of US Christians who failed to live a Christian-like life.


So to my fellow Christians: Our job is to LOVE others. That's it.. Leave the judging to GOD.. (Well, love others to a certain extent.. If somebody wants to hurt you or your loved ones, then by all means LOCK AND LOAD AND FIX BAYONET.. MOLON LABE, bitches.)

Hooah??

Hooah..


And in the meantime.... World War III is brewing..

And I'm a Christian and agree also.

I'm a more progressive Christian, in general, and believe the Bible was written within a context. It seems to me people pick, choose, and distort willy nilly when it comes to particular Bible verses with no regard to context and translation.

I won't even get into the Clobber Passages. I'll just say I'm a Christian who is in support of marriage equality. I don't believe the Bible says homosexuality is a sin.

I'm horrified to see what some who claim to be Christians say about LGBT people. It seems the "super Christians", as if there is such a thing, like Mike Huckabee, Franklin Graham and the like are the worst. Some of the nicest people I know are LGBT, many of them Christians, and their hearts are in a way better place than those who seem to have made their life mission to make the world a miserable place for LGBT people to live. It's sickening and nothing like my understanding of how we should be based on Jesus' teachings.

I'm glad there are some churches who are doing it right and welcoming LGBT people. First Baptist Church of Greenville, South Carolina recently made that decision and they are being ostracized by the South Carolina Baptist Convention. They had long left the Southern Baptist Convention. Hell, the SBC doesn't even believe in equality for women, so gays are definitely out. lol FB of Greenville is standing firm, however, in Love -- and more power to them.

As for this clerk, she's an elected official. She should have resigned if she didn't intend to do her duties. I'm all for her believing whatever she wants to believe, but she can't use her beliefs as an excuse to deny U.S. citizens their legal rights. Her husband has been standing outside the office holding a protest sign which says, "Welcome to Sodom and Gomorrah" -- that sounds like a real Christ-like thing to do, doesn't it?

The woman's counsel is as anti-gay as you can get:

http://www.hrc.org/resources/entry/1...iberty-counsel

[Corbi]

Cult ? do tell, would you be so kind & expand on the Cult aspect definition , I`d enjoy reading that thought process

Love you like the brother I never wanted Thomas But when you step back with a non biased mind and view religion, all religions...they are indeed cults. Some have become mainstream and have managed to escape the association with a cult but the basic premise is still there. I was raised Luthern and walked away when I saw the abuses the church was participating in. My ex-wife was Catholic and my wife now is a Baptist and one of my friends from work is practicing Muslim as is my oldest daughters boy friend so I have seen and heard a variety of religions and all I can say is "they are all freakin insane!".

[Old-Time-Lifter]

And you think the world is in a better place?

Naive isn't he...

There has never been a safer time to live in this world then now. The only reason it seems so fcked up is because we are bombarded with stories on social media. Stories that we would have not heard of before without such easy access to information.

Very naive.... sad to say there's a lot of this ^^ going around.

I agree with Iceman and you as well.. I am also a Christian.. And to quote my Atheist friend Corbi, "F&^K RELIGIONS." Yup.. You heard me right.. F&^j religions.

You see, Jesus DOES NOT want religion. He wants a RELATIONSHIP with Christians. Think of the other religions. They work hard to achieve that status ABOVE, whatever that may be.. Think of Jesus.. He walked on earth to die for our sins. The Son of God is reaching down (as opposed to us mortal sinners having to reach UP) all we have to do is accept Him as our Savior and live according to His Word.

Back to Iceman's point, in the past I would usually waste time disagreeing and arguing with non-Christians.. But this time, I will call out my fellow Christians.. The world is phucked up NOT because of "THEM", the others who don't believe in God..NO. The world is phuckked up because of US Christians who failed to live a Christian-like life.


So to my fellow Christians: Our job is to LOVE others. That's it.. Leave the judging to GOD.. (Well, love others to a certain extent.. If somebody wants to hurt you or your loved ones, then by all means LOCK AND LOAD AND FIX BAYONET.. MOLON LABE, bitches.)

Hooah??

Hooah..


And in the meantime.... World War III is brewing..

Would rep ^^ but on spread.

We're being distracked from what's really important. You and I both realize this....

[Clinos]

I understand the difficulty of her predicament. But think of it this way. Suppose a Muslim joins the Army at a time in which the US is not at war with any Muslim country. Then, while he's serving, the US goes to war in a Muslim country. What happens to this person if he says "sorry folks, I can't kill other Muslims, I didn't know when I joined the Army that I could be sent to kill Muslims and it's against my religion". What would happen to him? I don't know much about the military environment, but my guess would be that he would be told something like "when you joined the army you agreed to follow orders. You are refusing to follow these new orders, therefore you are being insubordinate (or whatever the English name for that is) and you are going to be court marshaled for it".
This lady took the oath of upholding the law, and that oath includes new laws. She should have known that was a possibility. And let's face it, we have seen gay marriage come down the road for a while now, it's not exactly a surprise to anyone.

You must spread some Reputation around before giving it to sy2502 again.

[Jdizzlean]

She isn't a government employee, she's an elected official that took an oath when she took her position. She refused to honor her oath even after she was ordered several times to do so. She could have resigned her position and everything would have been just fine but no, she decided otherwise. If you take an oath in court to tell the truth and you don't, you don't get fired, you... ready for this... go to jail. That anyone would try to spin it as somebody going to jail for her religion is dumb as phuk.

end of thread.


we have separation of church and state in this country for a reason. Enforcing and following the law doesn't mean you agree with it, but you have a duty to do your job, especially as an elected official. If you can't do it, resign, or suffer the consequences.

[sy2502]

end of thread.


we have separation of church and state in this country for a reason. Enforcing and following the law doesn't mean you agree with it, but you have a duty to do your job, especially as an elected official. If you can't do it, resign, or suffer the consequences.

Basically the only way this person was jailed for her religion is if her religion forces her to stay in that job. Which if I remember anything about Christianity, it doesn't.

[2nd_chance]

You know full well it's not the same thing, David.

Do I? Maybe you could enlighten me on the differences? They both refused to uphold the law on the exact same matter - at opposite ends. One was praised and the other jailed.

[v4lu3s]

She has a responsibility as a public administrator to obey the laws as the legislature writes them and the courts interpret them. When taking on a job as a public administrator it is to be expected that your beliefs are secondary to doing your job as you work for the public, not a private concern. She is using her religious belief to deny people the "right" to buy a marriage permission slip allowing them certain privileges in taxation, inheritance and legal access to one another.

She has a moral compass, and should be proud of it. Many Americans have lost theirs, however she is not suited to the job, she needs to resign and allow someone else who is willing to understand that the job is not the same as being privately employed.

I am opposed to socialized medicine, the welfare state, and so on...but I am still a firefighter EMT and I am a participant provider in socialized medicine, I decided that my belief is secondary to my service to the public, and I took an oath of office stating I was able and willing to do the job. As a public official she has the same responsibility.

[Frnkd]

Basically the only way this person was jailed for her religion is if her religion forces her to stay in that job. Which if I remember anything about Christianity, it doesn't.

I wonder if her pastor, minister or whomever condones this? you would think that she would seek a higher power(Earthling) to guide her. Why isn't he/she being sought for an opinion. Now that would be headlines too.

[Bo_Flecks]

Do I? Maybe you could enlighten me on the differences? They both refused to uphold the law on the exact same matter - at opposite ends. One was praised and the other jailed.

So you recognize the issue is at opposite ends. And it's those opposite ends that make the issue very different.

On one end you have an elected official who attempted to give people rights that were denied by antiquated, unconstitutional laws that were in the process of being overturned.

On the other end you have an elected official who attempted to deny people rights that the law had given them, and refused to obey a court order to do the job she was sworn to do.

I don't see how anyone can view these situations being anywhere near exact. But then again, I'm not blinded by the fact that these issues involved the gay community.

[DuracellBunny]

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/arti...e-alcohol.html

I thought some of you might like this story as well.

A female flight attendant becomes a Muslim and gets suspended after refusing to serve alcohol. She is now filing a discrimination suit on religious grounds.

[Mark1T]

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/arti...e-alcohol.html

I thought some of you might like this story as well.

A female flight attendant becomes a Muslim and gets suspended after refusing to serve alcohol. She is now filing a discrimination suit on religious grounds.

My same answer. She should have resigned. She forgot she is working for an entity. She is employed and she is not the employer. She does not make the rules. To me, an open and shut case of insubordination.

[Fishman15]

My same answer. She should have resigned. She forgot she is working for an entity. She is employed and she is not the employer. She does not make the rules. To me, an open and shut case of insubordination.

What do ya bet these 2 cases won't turn out the same? I hope I'm wrong...

[Iceman1800]

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/arti...e-alcohol.html

I thought some of you might like this story as well.

A female flight attendant becomes a Muslim and gets suspended after refusing to serve alcohol. She is now filing a discrimination suit on religious grounds.

Couldn't she ask another flight attendant to serve the alcohol much like the KY clerk could have just asked someone else to issue the license?

[Partyrocking]

My same answer. She should have resigned. She forgot she is working for an entity. She is employed and she is not the employer. She does not make the rules. To me, an open and shut case of insubordination.

I think this second case (the airline case) is distinguishable. She went to her employer, told them that she had a problem with serving alcohol, and they offered her an accommodation which she accepted. That should have been the end of it. The arrangement still allowed the customer to get his or her alcohol. It's not as if she flushed all of the booze down the toilet so no one would live in sin.

There was no issue until another employee complained and then the airline changed course without any warning. That's not fair. She shouldn't be punished for abiding by an accommodation that her employer had already given her.

[Partyrocking]

Couldn't she ask another flight attendant to serve the alcohol much like the KY clerk could have just asked someone else to issue the license?

That was the policy. When a customer asked her for alcohol, she would get another attendant to provide it. This is the difference between I can't do X but I'll get someone to do it for you and no one will do X- my religion.

[Mark1T]

I think this second case (the airline case) is distinguishable. She went to her employer, told them that she had a problem with serving alcohol, and they offered her an accommodation which she accepted. That should have been the end of it. The arrangement still allowed the customer to get his or her alcohol. It's not as if she flushed all of the booze down the toilet so no one would live in sin.

There was no issue until another employee complained and then the airline changed course without any warning. That's not fair. She shouldn't be punished for abiding by an accommodation that her employer had already given her.

An employer has the right to change its policies at anytime. The employee does not. A lawsuit from this employee is over-kill. These types of lawsuits are frivolous and have no merit and open the door for other frivolous lawsuits. Instead of a lawsuit, get another job.

[DuracellBunny]

Marks and Spencer have given all checkout staff the right to refuse to serve pork or alcohol on religious grounds. The alcohol thing is a mess because every conceivable way of dealing with it is in use at one company or another, so it leaves plenty of room to argue it from all sides.

[Clinos]

I think this second case (the airline case) is distinguishable. She went to her employer, told them that she had a problem with serving alcohol, and they offered her an accommodation which she accepted. That should have been the end of it. The arrangement still allowed the customer to get his or her alcohol. It's not as if she flushed all of the booze down the toilet so no one would live in sin.

There was no issue until another employee complained and then the airline changed course without any warning. That's not fair. She shouldn't be punished for abiding by an accommodation that her employer had already given her.

Sounds like she's about to retire well off financially with free travel for life.

[Xscoot]

Naive isn't he...


Very naive.... sad to say there's a lot of this ^^ going around.

Not being naive, just stating truth. There has never been a safer time to live in the world then now. It's a kick when the people predicting doom and gloom have almost zero chance of being affected by anything going on in the world and one of their biggest dilemmas for the day is what to have for dinner. Has any news story in the last year affected you directly? I doubt it. Don't watch or read the news for a week, your perception will change. You spend what little time you have left sleeping with a gun under your pillow. I will choose to live in blissful ignorance.