Reporter and Cameraman killed on live tv, terrible...

[pvsampson]

A type of banned handgun costs over $15,000.

Nope.guarantee I can get my hands on ANY handgun I want way cheaper.I could make a phone call and borrow one and have it delivered within half an hour if I wanted to.Call my landlords son and I can have a .270 W and 7mm Remington Magnum here in five minutes,literally,legally.

Guns are easy to come by here,but because some are outlawed,one has to deal with outlaws to procure them.

[JohnnyBurst]

Nope.guarantee I can get my hands on ANY handgun I want way cheaper.I could make a phone call and borrow one and have it delivered within half an hour if I wanted to.Call my landlords son and I can have a .270 W and 7mm Remington Magnum here in five minutes,literally,legally.

Guns are easy to come by here,but because some are outlawed,one has to deal with outlaws to procure them.

How much can you get a banned handgun for then?

Glad you can get a legal firearm within minutes. Really. It's legal, no reason not to have one.

[pvsampson]

And forget the bullsh#t statistics.Gun crimes have escalated here.Just very few mass killings.

As mentioned,outlaws have guns.

[pvsampson]

How much can you get a banned handgun for then?

Glad you can get a legal firearm within minutes. Really. It's legal, no reason not to have one.

With my history and associates from that,I can borrow anything I want.Not that I want to.

Re the legality of getting a firearm,if the landlord son is with me then I will have no problem,as he has a licence.But if he left the weapons here and I got caught,I would be in serious trouble.

Also,can you clarify what you mean by banned handguns?

[JediRN]

Once you take the first step � rejecting God, embracing evil � there is simply no telling what you�ll do next. That�s the horrifying truth. Time to face it.

Agreed.

We need to recommit to God as a nation and go back to the days when there was no slavery in the USA, women actually could vote, alcohol was illegal and organized crime was non-existent, people were free to practice any one of the Christian religion they chose, 1% of our population wasn't in jail and technology gave anybody a chance to live longer, healthier and more prosperous.

Those were the glory days. Until then we are just stuck with the above.

Ronald Reagan so got it wrong when he said "Our best days are ahead of us."

[InternetTuffGuy]

John Adams--- Suppose a nation in some distant region should take the Bible for their only law book and every member should regulate his conduct by the precepts there exhibited. . . . What a Eutopia – what a Paradise would this region be..

“The government of the United States is not, in any sense, founded on the Christian religion.”

– John Adams

And my favorite John Adams quote...

“This would be the best of all possible worlds, if there were no religion in it.”

– John Adams

[InternetTuffGuy]

...Look no further than Australia. Since they have taken away home gun ownership, gun crimes have skyrocketed.

Hmm, you might be mistaken on your facts there. Australia banned automatic weapons over a decade ago as a result of a mass shooting in a public space that claimed 30 or so lives. Citizens are still able to own guns and since the ban on automatic weapons their gun crime has decreased. That's not to conclude the ban has resulted in less gun crime, that's just the statistics as they have been reported.

[pvsampson]

Hmm, you might be mistaken on your facts there. Australia banned automatic weapons over a decade ago as a result of a mass shooting in a public space that claimed 30 or so lives. Citizens are still able to own guns and since the ban on automatic weapons their gun crime has decreased. That's not to conclude the ban has resulted in less gun crime, that's just the statistics as they have been reported.

Gotta say,all you foreigners seem to be up to date on our gun crime here.

There are reports of shootings in Sydney EVERY BLOODY NIGHT on the news.20 years ago,when the current gun laws were introduced,it was odd to hear of shootings more than once a week ANYWHERE in the whole country.

The government took the guns off law abiding citizens.Some were allowed to keep guns under strict conditions.Those that were not allowed,and decided to keep their guns are now OUTLAWS. Some OUTLAWS are now using those guns to commit crime.More and more and more.Pistols,any variation of,are permitted with very,very,very strict conditions.

Pistols are the MAIN weapon of choice for the OUTLAWS that are committing the crimes that are being reported EVERY day.The semi-automatic rifles that were banned,are still around in the hands of OUTLAWS.And Law enforcement,military.Yet...there are still a few crimes being committed with semi-automatic rifles.

The vast majority of our population here is unarmed.The vast majority of criminals are armed.General population have NO WAY to defend themselves against the vast majority of CRIMINALS.


If the majority of our population was allowed to arm themselves,and criminals knew that the next home they invaded,the next woman they tried to rape,the next father of the child they tried to abduct...well if they knew those people may be able to fight back because they might be armed...then I think that there would be a LOT less crime in this country.


As for the comparisons of gun deaths here versus gun deaths in America, (mentioned in another post),remember that we only have 22 million people here.Not 320 million.

[so-tex]

Hmm, you might be mistaken on your facts there. Australia banned automatic weapons over a decade ago as a result of a mass shooting in a public space that claimed 30 or so lives. Citizens are still able to own guns and since the ban on automatic weapons their gun crime has decreased. That's not to conclude the ban has resulted in less gun crime, that's just the statistics as they have been reported.

Hmmm. I don't think so. Read post #99.

Oh but wait. Us Muricans know more about Australia than the Aussies do.

[so-tex]

I've never correlated gun sales to gun violence nor think there is any. But the sheer number of guns means it gets into the hands of those who shouldn't have them.

Of course I don't. Stared down the barrel of one or two pointed at me and came out breathing on the other side of them.



If they don't happen every day, then please tell me how there are more mass shootings this year than days thus far this year. Come on math genius....lay that one out for me.

I'm not ignoring the fact. Drunk driving is an irrelevant argument because it cheapens the discussion about willful murder perpetuated by those seeking to harm and kill people. That argument indicates you are afraid of having a real discussion to benefit of society.

People like me...meaning the ones who care about their fellow citizens and will do what we can to keep them safe, right? People who challenge the status quo and insane right wingers to bring about meaningful change and discussion, is that right? Meaning the people who have put their lives on the line to protect and serve the citizens of this country who hate seeing so much death when coming home. Meaning a guy who see's veterans commit suicide daily....

HAH! At least I've bled for this country....have you?
.

YOU were the one who said mass shootings happens everyday genius.
No... I have not bled for this country, but my father, numerous uncle's and my son in law did.
He made seargant at 19 in Iraq, and I guarantee You none of them think like your liberal ass does.
Conservative right winger? Lmao. I'm a Libertarian that believes in the constitution. I'm not willing to sacrifice my freedoms for security.
It seems you're too dense to grasp that. You know nothing about me.

[Corbi]

Hmm, you might be mistaken on your facts there. Australia banned automatic weapons over a decade ago as a result of a mass shooting in a public space that claimed 30 or so lives. Citizens are still able to own guns and since the ban on automatic weapons their gun crime has decreased. That's not to conclude the ban has resulted in less gun crime, that's just the statistics as they have been reported.

And automatic weapons have been banned here in the USA for far longer, you can own them legally if you want to jump thru all the hoops but between that and the cost nobody is going to bother.

Then why do you have a CCW?

Because it's my right to have one, I don't carry as I don't have any fear but the fact that I can get a permit and carry if I wish to do so was all I wanted.

[JediRN]

Because it's my right to have one, I don't carry as I don't have any fear but the fact that I can get a permit and carry if I wish to do so was all I wanted.

I don't even own a gun. I just like knowing that if I want to I can. I guess that's the same thing.

I think things would be a lot better if the whole second amendment was being followed. Although my state has a militia, they are far from well regulated. And by regulated I don't mean neutered either, but that's kinda off topic.

[JohnnyBurst]

YOU were the one who said mass shootings happens everyday genius.
No... I have not bled for this country, but my father, numerous uncle's and my son in law did.
He made seargant at 19 in Iraq, and I guarantee You none of them think like your liberal ass does.
Conservative right winger? Lmao. I'm a Libertarian that believes in the constitution. I'm not willing to sacrifice my freedoms for security.
It seems you're too dense to grasp that. You know nothing about me.

You understand math, simple addition and subtraction, is that correct? If not, and it's a probable "not", let me break it down Barney style for you. There have been 241 days in 2015. There have been 249 mass shootings in America in 2015. That equals out to an average of 1.03 shootings per day. Genius, I know.

So you've not had the intestinal fortitude to have done a single thing to support freedom, believed in America or the Constitution enough to lay your life on the line, or willing to sacrifice yourself for freedom, do I have that right? So, when you say "your liberal ass", you think that is an insult? To be an educated thinker who has laid his life on the line and excelled with the most prestigious duty station in the service and all you have is "your liberal ass" shows your continued ignorance. So, your backwards redneck ass is too lazy to actually do anything to benefit the freedoms the Constitution provides or protect this nation, instead you just sit on your couch and complain. All you have is lazy rhetoric and your talk of having "freedoms" means nothing because you cannot grasp the personal sacrifice required to actually have Patriotism. Typical conservative.

And automatic weapons have been banned here in the USA for far longer, you can own them legally if you want to jump thru all the hoops but between that and the cost nobody is going to bother.

Because it's my right to have one, I don't carry as I don't have any fear but the fact that I can get a permit and carry if I wish to do so was all I wanted.

All semi-automatic rifles, pistols, and shotguns were banned under their gun laws. Whomever said "automatic" may not know weaponry intricacies.

Good for you, truly. So many people carry because they are afraid and I'm left wondering, what are you afraid of? Example, cops. So many cops say "I was afraid for my life" yet wear body armor, have 1-2 firearms on them, a shotgun and rifle in the car, pepper spray, taser, batons, and cuffs. Armed to the gills and still afraid. Sad.

[Corbi]

All semi-automatic rifles, pistols, and shotguns were banned under their gun laws. Whomever said "automatic" may not know weaponry intricacies.
.

You posted "automatics" which surely you must know are far different then semi autos. If you simply copy and pasted before posting perhaps you should have done some fact checking and corrected the post?

[JohnnyBurst]

You posted "automatics" which surely you must know are far different then semi autos. If you simply copy and pasted before posting perhaps you should have done some fact checking and corrected the post?

Where did I post that?

[Corbi]

Where did I post that?

Internettuffguy posted it, sorry got you 2 douchenozzles mixed up.

[NorwichGrad]

You understand math, simple addition and subtraction, is that correct? If not, and it's a probable "not", let me break it down Barney style for you. There have been 241 days in 2015. There have been 249 mass shootings in America in 2015. That equals out to an average of 1.03 shootings per day. Genius, I know.

So you've not had the intestinal fortitude to have done a single thing to support freedom, believed in America or the Constitution enough to lay your life on the line, or willing to sacrifice yourself for freedom, do I have that right? So, when you say "your liberal ass", you think that is an insult? To be an educated thinker who has laid his life on the line and excelled with the most prestigious duty station in the service and all you have is "your liberal ass" shows your continued ignorance. So, your backwards redneck ass is too lazy to actually do anything to benefit the freedoms the Constitution provides or protect this nation, instead you just sit on your couch and complain. All you have is lazy rhetoric and your talk of having "freedoms" means nothing because you cannot grasp the personal sacrifice required to actually have Patriotism. Typical conservative.



All semi-automatic rifles, pistols, and shotguns were banned under their gun laws. Whomever said "automatic" may not know weaponry intricacies.

Good for you, truly. So many people carry because they are afraid and I'm left wondering, what are you afraid of? Example, cops. So many cops say "I was afraid for my life" yet wear body armor, have 1-2 firearms on them, a shotgun and rifle in the car, pepper spray, taser, batons, and cuffs. Armed to the gills and still afraid. Sad.

Johnny,

I've been a member here since 2008.. The guys will will attest how much of a pro-military, pro-gun, pro-Bill of Rights, pro-Life I am.. I love our VETS.. Many members here do..

But truth is the FIRST time American Soldiers / Militia fought for freedom was during the Revolutionary War; the LAST time they fought for freedom was the War of 1812.. You, as much as I love the vets, DID NOT fight for freedom.. Actually, I should say, "WE DID NOT FIGHT for freedom." (I'm a vet.) We were part of the military industrial complex controlled by private banks.. For decades, the US gummint - whether dem or rep - served their self-interests.. All wars are banker wars..

Dems and Reps are both criminals, two legs of the same pants.. All the $hit that's going on in the world is our gummint's last desperate effort to save the already-dead petrodollar.. All wars are banker wars..

There is no doubt in my mind you're a good guy.

There's no doubt in my mind you got big iron ballz made of bronze.

There is no doubt in my mind you LOVE America..

There is no doubt in my mind you will give your life for others.

There is no doubt in my mind that in real life, you will get my back as I will get yours..

But truth is, WE DID NOT SERVE THE AMERICAN PEOPLE when we wore the uniform.. The gummint used us to further their agenda..

But looking on the bright side, just because you are no longer in the Marine Corps does not mean you should stop serving our phukked up Nation, this once great Republic..

You're a smart guy, and passionate.. The $hitstorm is coming to America (thanks to the criminals in DC).. Let us continue to serve our Nation through helping American Citizens in REAL LIFE and not on the internet, when that time comes..

Lastly, when you mock those who never served, you dishonor yourself.. We should never expect to be on the pedestal jus cuz 'we served, brah.' This is the definition of selfless service..

I love you, brother.. No homo..

[Brackneyc]

Guns are not even in the top 100 issues we have facing us, or any other people on this planet.

[JohnnyBurst]

Internettuffguy posted it, sorry got you 2 douchenozzles mixed up.

All good

Johnny,
No homo..

....No homo

[bodyhard]

Seems to me people who own guns get all nuts when they hear the word "gun control" and people who don't own guns believe that gun control is a solution to gun violence.

I don't care either way, but what I do know is that "stiffening" the laws on obtaining a gun legally wont fix anything, I don't know one guy, not one guy that owns a gun legally. Every guy I know who owns guns, bullet proof vest, police gear, automatic sh!t, silencers, even grenades are all obtain illegally and very very easy as well.

As for the "mental" issues, that's a bunch of f'cking crap as well, not saying that some of the people who commit mass murders don't have some kind of mental issues, but what about people who are just straight up f'cking evil?? People who kill out of revenge, anger, jealousy, hatred etc etc??

I sure as hell don't have a clue on where we can begin, but I do know gun control, or health/mental care is not it.

[Brackneyc]

Seems to me people who own guns get all nuts when they hear the word "gun control" and people who don't own guns believe that gun control is a solution to gun violence.

I don't care either way, but what I do know is that "stiffening" the laws on obtaining a gun legally wont fix anything, I don't know one guy, not one guy that owns a gun legally. Every guy I know who owns guns, bullet proof vest, police gear, automatic sh!t, silencers, even grenades are all obtain illegally and very very easy as well.

As for the "mental" issues, that's a bunch of f'cking crap as well, not saying that some of the people who commit mass murders don't have some kind of mental issues, but what about people who are just straight up f'cking evil?? People who kill out of revenge, anger, jealousy, hatred etc etc??

I sure as hell don't have a clue on where we can begin, but I do know gun control, or health/mental care is not it.

Can't use pure evil. To simple. Most people need an excuse they "think" they can "fix" or "control. ".

They are delusional.

[bodyhard]

Can't use pure evil. To simple. Most people need an excuse they "think" they can "fix" or "control. ".

They are delusional.

And that is why we go round and round in a vicious cycle.

When I was about 13 a guy I knew who was 18 at the time shot a little girl in her head just to see if his gun worked, that memory stayed in my head till this day. But I do know, this guy did not have any mental issues, the guy was just twisted.

[Mark1T]

Seems to me people who own guns get all nuts when they hear the word "gun control" and people who don't own guns believe that gun control is a solution to gun violence.

I don't care either way, but what I do know is that "stiffening" the laws on obtaining a gun legally wont fix anything, I don't know one guy, not one guy that owns a gun legally. Every guy I know who owns guns, bullet proof vest, police gear, automatic sh!t, silencers, even grenades are all obtain illegally and very very easy as well.

As for the "mental" issues, that's a bunch of f'cking crap as well, not saying that some of the people who commit mass murders don't have some kind of mental issues, but what about people who are just straight up f'cking evil?? People who kill out of revenge, anger, jealousy, hatred etc etc??

I sure as hell don't have a clue on where we can begin, but I do know gun control, or health/mental care is not it.

You bring up some good points, BH. That's real. So very true that most of the gun violence like murders are committed by people who do not own guns legally. Take Chicago for example, Ferguson, Baltimore. 99% of the murders there are from illegally-owned guns. Gun control will not solve that.

I do agree and I would not be opposed to stricter requirements to own a gun, but it will not reduce gun violence. It might reduce gun violence among people who legally own guns, but how does that help? It does not.

[so-tex]

You understand math, simple addition and subtraction, is that correct? If not, and it's a probable "not", let me break it down Barney style for you. There have been 241 days in 2015. There have been 249 mass shootings in America in 2015. That equals out to an average of 1.03 shootings per day. Genius, I know.

So you've not had the intestinal fortitude to have done a single thing to support freedom, believed in America or the Constitution enough to lay your life on the line, or willing to sacrifice yourself for freedom, do I have that right? So, when you say "your liberal ass", you think that is an insult? To be an educated thinker who has laid his life on the line and excelled with the most prestigious duty station in the service and all you have is "your liberal ass" shows your continued ignorance. So, your backwards redneck ass is too lazy to actually do anything to benefit the freedoms the Constitution provides or protect this nation, instead you just sit on your couch and complain. All you have is lazy rhetoric and your talk of having "freedoms" means nothing because you cannot grasp the personal sacrifice required to actually have Patriotism. Typical conservative.
d.

l fukin ol. 1.03 of your so called mass shootings is an average genius . They don't happen everyday, and even if they do, I can guarantee you the gun was either or illegally obtained or the person had mental issues.
While you wherever you were "bleeding" for this country, I was busy feeding the world.
I have great respect for the military, but not a$$holes like yourself.
What have you done lately douchwaffle?

[ElrondHubbard]

And that is why we go round and round in a vicious cycle.

When I was about 13 a guy I knew who was 18 at the time shot a little girl in her head just to see if his gun worked, that memory stayed in my head till this day. But I do know, this guy did not have any mental issues, the guy was just twisted.

I would say "twisted" is a mental issue.

The argument here really is interesting, and sometimes I think people are more wedded to their particular "side" than they are to digging to the bottom of the problem to see what really can be done about it. A lot of people I know who have guns say they got them because they fear other people with guns. "Criminals have guns, therefore I need a gun to protect myself from them."

What most of us forget is that "criminal" is not a genetic trait. Nobody is born a criminal. Most people who are criminals today were once law-abiding citizens. There are some law-abiding citizens who were once criminals. You can't just make a clean distinction and say one group can have guns and the other can't, because people go from one group to the other all the time. If only law-abiding citizens could have guns, then there would still be gun crimes, because some of those citizens would become criminals after they got the guns. It's a pandora's box that no one can close. And it's a vicious circle.

So either everybody can have guns, or nobody can. It's just really hard to achieve a balanced state, and it's going to be very, very hard to get rid of guns completely -- and it's really not even desirable in the big picture. So it seems to me that the only reasonable approach is to ensure that those who have guns are properly trained and schooled, that guns are traceable, and that nobody gets away with gun crimes.


And BTW, NorwichGrad: It's arguable that even the War of 1812 was a war for "freedom". The U.S. wasn't invaded until well after the war had begun, and England had originally made no plans to invade. But a big part of the war movement was the desire on the part of certain political persuasions in the U.S. to conquer and annex Canada.

[bodyhard]

I would say "twisted" is a mental issue.

The argument here really is interesting, and sometimes I think people are more wedded to their particular "side" than they are to digging to the bottom of the problem to see what really can be done about it. A lot of people I know who have guns say they got them because they fear other people with guns. "Criminals have guns, therefore I need a gun to protect myself from them."

What most of us forget is that "criminal" is not a genetic trait. Nobody is born a criminal. Most people who are criminals today were once law-abiding citizens. There are some law-abiding citizens who were once criminals. You can't just make a clean distinction and say one group can have guns and the other can't, because people go from one group to the other all the time. If only law-abiding citizens could have guns, then there would still be gun crimes, because some of those citizens would become criminals after they got the guns. It's a pandora's box that no one can close. And it's a vicious circle.

So either everybody can have guns, or nobody can. It's just really hard to achieve a balanced state, and it's going to be very, very hard to get rid of guns completely -- and it's really not even desirable in the big picture. So it seems to me that the only reasonable approach is to ensure that those who have guns are properly trained and schooled, that guns are traceable, and that nobody gets away with gun crimes.


And BTW, NorwichGrad: It's arguable that even the War of 1812 was a war for "freedom". The U.S. wasn't invaded until well after the war had begun, and England had originally made no plans to invade. But a big part of the war movement was the desire on the part of certain political persuasions in the U.S. to conquer and annex Canada.

No, twisted as he didn't give a f'ck about anything....When he went to prison for his act he thought I snitched on him. (which I swear to God I didn't, I was too scared back then to do so) When he got out I was 28, he got married, got a job and had a kid. Was living, what the naked eye would call a normal life, but behind the scenes he was still living the life of crime. He put word on the street that he was going to kill me and I went after him, beating him nearly to death with a bat, I wish I would have killed him, but it wasn't in me to do it. When he got out of the hospital he said he would come after me again but wind up getting killed by some peeps he did dirty. Was he mental? No, he was just a person who choose to live that life.

And you have a very good point regarding the word "criminal" a person could be a criminal and not a murderer and a murderer could be a law abiding citizen who was pushed into murder.

If a person wants to kill by using a gun (there are so many ways to kill people) he/she will get that gun by whatever means, legal or not, that is why gun control wont work (unless we get rid of all guns and we know that is just foolish thinking).

[JohnnyBurst]

So either everybody can have guns, or nobody can. It's just really hard to achieve a balanced state, and it's going to be very, very hard to get rid of guns completely -- and it's really not even desirable in the big picture. So it seems to me that the only reasonable approach is to ensure that those who have guns are properly trained and schooled, that guns are traceable, and that nobody gets away with gun crimes.

And herein lies the issue. Nobody has said "we're going to take all the guns" or anything remotely similar and the gun nuts go apeshiit anyways. Most choose to cling to some sort of "need" for guns saying its for security, or freedom, or against tyranny and when you question them on what they are referring to, there's absolutely no real world scenario they can point to for their need to maintain an arsenal. Or they say "Stalin took the guns" or "Mao took the guns" and while true, our system of government with checks and balances prevents anything as such from occurring.

What if the discussion was to say: "There will be a mandatory buy-back for all semi-automatic weapons in the form of pistols, rifles, and shotguns." That would leave all bolt action rifles, pump action shotguns, revolvers, and single action weapons.

And BTW, NorwichGrad: It's arguable that even the War of 1812 was a war for "freedom". The U.S. wasn't invaded until well after the war had begun, and England had originally made no plans to invade. But a big part of the war movement was the desire on the part of certain political persuasions in the U.S. to conquer and annex Canada.

I'd also say that WWII was a war for freedom, given the Japanese chose to attack us.

[InternetTuffGuy]

Gotta say,all you foreigners seem to be up to date on our gun crime here...

As for the comparisons of gun deaths here versus gun deaths in America, (mentioned in another post),remember that we only have 22 million people here.Not 320 million.

I don't claim to be an expert in Australian crime rates however it's pretty simple to research the statistics.

This is from the Australian Institue of Criminology which shows a decline in violent crime between 1996-2012.

http://www.aic.gov.au/statistics/violent%20crime.html

Here's another Australian source citing murder rates were at an all-time low in 2012. Murder rates per 100,000 were at 1.1 compared to the US being at 4.7 per 100,000. You may also note that the number one way you Australians are being murdered are with knives.

http://www.sbs.com.au/news/article/2...its-record-low

Hmmm. I don't think so. Read post #99.

Oh but wait. Us Muricans know more about Australia than the Aussies do.

Well when the American takes a few minutes to research statistics provided by the Australian government and or news sources and the Aussie builds his argument on "I see it on the news" then yeah I suppose I may have a case for my claim. But I know fact checking isn't your thing considering you've already stated you've ignored others who have posted sources with concrete data. Ignorance is bliss I suppose.

[pvsampson]

This is now 2015.Those statistics are now irrelevant.Ice is becoming a huge problem here now and the crime rates,murders especially,have risen dramatically.

I don't need to find statistics.I see it on the news every night.

[InternetTuffGuy]

This is now 2015.Those statistics are now irrelevant.Ice is becoming a huge problem here now and the crime rates,murders especially,have risen dramatically.

I don't need to find statistics.I see it on the news every night.

The majority of statistics found are through 2012. I was able to find a source that compares crime rates from 2011-2014. Considering we're still in 2015 it's safe to assume annual rates have not been compiled to an entirety.

http://www.nationmaster.com/country-...d-States/Crime

This site compares stats between Australia and the US. Crime rates have changed very little from 2012 to 2014. Murder rates per 100,000 citizens has stayed right around 1.3 vs 5.0 which isn't far off of the first article showing 1.1 vs 4.7.

Again your argument that "I see it on the news every night" isn't an argument. All it means is you're more aware of what's going on around you. It doesn't prove that it hasn't been going on all along or rates have increased. Your initial rebuttal to my first post was full of statements that can be debunked with any of the sources I've shared. Feel free to continue going off your gut feeling though.