Gun brahs, whats a good one for home protection ?

[jbball92]

why not both??

Taurus judge with .410 buckshot

[Ikeman83]

why not both??

Taurus judge with .410 buckshot

Please make it stop...

[DTRrex]

Good Lord, it is sad and disappointing to see the amount of chit information being perpetuated in this thread. As a gun advocate, this is why we need more stringent training for anyone that wishes to own a gun.

1) Nearly any type of rifle, ESPECIALLY a 5.56/.223 AR round, is absolutely stupid to use for defense. My jaw legit dropped seeing how many idiots suggested this.... all I'm imagining is someone belting off 20 rounds of 5.56 in an apartment or condo and killing 7 of their neighbors. Please, for the love of God, unless you live in the country or forest, do not use an AR style rifle for home defense.

2) The shotgun is a classic choice and often perpetuated as the king of home defense because of of it's lesser need for accuracy and the myth behind the sound of pump action scaring away an intruder. While these notions hold "some" merit, a shotgun is often hard to quickly access, gives too limited mobility, and less capacity.... not to mention that in close quarters, if you stumble upon am intruder, disarming a shotgun is not particularly difficult.

3) The handgun is my preferred selection of home defense. Ideally, if you're comfortable with the recoil and can accurately reset your shot on a .45 in a hallow point round, then that's the best bet. Lower velocity (less chance of collateral penetration) but good stopping power and most full sizes will give you at least 8+ rounds. A handgun also gives you preferred manoeuvrability and capacity compared to a shotgun.

Personally I think a handgun in the bedroom and a shotgun accessible by the front door are the best.

I use a 9mm for my carry because it's light and I'm incredibly accurate with it. .45 1911 for primary home defense and a 12 Guage as a backup. Gas and bolt action rifles are just for fun and potential apocalypse.

[CanbrahCrakBaby]

Musket crew in this bish. Crooks run when they see me packin dat powder

[Vukov]

A dog

[CdtCox]

Good Lord, it is sad and disappointing to see the amount of chit information being perpetuated in this thread. As a gun advocate, this is why we need more stringent training for anyone that wishes to own a gun.

1) Nearly any type of rifle, ESPECIALLY a 5.56/.223 AR round, is absolutely stupid to use for defense. My jaw legit dropped seeing how many idiots suggested this.... all I'm imagining is someone belting off 20 rounds of 5.56 in an apartment or condo and killing 7 of their neighbors. Please, for the love of God, unless you live in the country or forest, do not use an AR style rifle for home defense.

2) The shotgun is a classic choice and often perpetuated as the king of home defense because of of it's lesser need for accuracy and the myth behind the sound of pump action scaring away an intruder. While these notions hold "some" merit, a shotgun is often hard to quickly access, gives too limited mobility, and less capacity.... not to mention that in close quarters, if you stumble upon am intruder, disarming a shotgun is not particularly difficult.

3) The handgun is my preferred selection of home defense. Ideally, if you're comfortable with the recoil and can accurately reset your shot on a .45 in a hallow point round, then that's the best bet. Lower velocity (less chance of collateral penetration) but good stopping power and most full sizes will give you at least 8+ rounds. A handgun also gives you preferred manoeuvrability and capacity compared to a shotgun.

Personally I think a handgun in the bedroom and a shotgun accessible by the front door are the best.

I use a 9mm for my carry because it's light and I'm incredibly accurate with it. .45 1911 for primary home defense and a 12 Guage as a backup. Gas and bolt action rifles are just for fun and potential apocalypse.

lol at thinking your pistol round won't rip through a wall just like .223 will

brb limit myself to 8 rounds while I have a 30 round capacity rifle available

[13donniedarko]

Good Lord, it is sad and disappointing to see the amount of chit information being perpetuated in this thread. As a gun advocate, this is why we need more stringent training for anyone that wishes to own a gun.

1) Nearly any type of rifle, ESPECIALLY a 5.56/.223 AR round, is absolutely stupid to use for defense. My jaw legit dropped seeing how many idiots suggested this.... all I'm imagining is someone belting off 20 rounds of 5.56 in an apartment or condo and killing 7 of their neighbors. Please, for the love of God, unless you live in the country or forest, do not use an AR style rifle for home defense.

2) The shotgun is a classic choice and often perpetuated as the king of home defense because of of it's lesser need for accuracy and the myth behind the sound of pump action scaring away an intruder. While these notions hold "some" merit, a shotgun is often hard to quickly access, gives too limited mobility, and less capacity.... not to mention that in close quarters, if you stumble upon am intruder, disarming a shotgun is not particularly difficult.

3) The handgun is my preferred selection of home defense. Ideally, if you're comfortable with the recoil and can accurately reset your shot on a .45 in a hallow point round, then that's the best bet. Lower velocity (less chance of collateral penetration) but good stopping power and most full sizes will give you at least 8+ rounds. A handgun also gives you preferred manoeuvrability and capacity compared to a shotgun.

Personally I think a handgun in the bedroom and a shotgun accessible by the front door are the best.

I use a 9mm for my carry because it's light and I'm incredibly accurate with it. .45 1911 for primary home defense and a 12 Guage as a backup. Gas and bolt action rifles are just for fun and potential apocalypse.

45 went through 4 sheets of drywall so why is it good again with its lower magazine capacity?

http://www.thetruthaboutguns.com/201...esting-take-1/

[RThoe]

Good Lord, it is sad and disappointing to see the amount of chit information being perpetuated in this thread. As a gun advocate, this is why we need more stringent training for anyone that wishes to own a gun.

1) Nearly any type of rifle, ESPECIALLY a 5.56/.223 AR round, is absolutely stupid to use for defense. My jaw legit dropped seeing how many idiots suggested this.... all I'm imagining is someone belting off 20 rounds of 5.56 in an apartment or condo and killing 7 of their neighbors. Please, for the love of God, unless you live in the country or forest, do not use an AR style rifle for home defense.

2) The shotgun is a classic choice and often perpetuated as the king of home defense because of of it's lesser need for accuracy and the myth behind the sound of pump action scaring away an intruder. While these notions hold "some" merit, a shotgun is often hard to quickly access, gives too limited mobility, and less capacity.... not to mention that in close quarters, if you stumble upon am intruder, disarming a shotgun is not particularly difficult.

3) The handgun is my preferred selection of home defense. Ideally, if you're comfortable with the recoil and can accurately reset your shot on a .45 in a hallow point round, then that's the best bet. Lower velocity (less chance of collateral penetration) but good stopping power and most full sizes will give you at least 8+ rounds. A handgun also gives you preferred manoeuvrability and capacity compared to a shotgun.

Personally I think a handgun in the bedroom and a shotgun accessible by the front door are the best.

I use a 9mm for my carry because it's light and I'm incredibly accurate with it. .45 1911 for primary home defense and a 12 Guage as a backup. Gas and bolt action rifles are just for fun and potential apocalypse.

Calls using a rifle for HD stupid.
Suggests poverty ass handgun rounds with HALLOW points are ideal.

You don't know what you're talking about. Not saying a handgun can't be the right choice for someone, but to suggest a rifle is stupid to use is asinine. Is over penetration a concern? Sure, but it's a concern with any platform.

Handguns will absolutely penetrate drywall. They are also notoriously weak. If you're comfortable and accurate with a rifle, it is your best option. Largest capacity, easiest of all three for follow up shots, extremely reliable, etc. etc.

I also wouldn't worry too much about over penetration (on humans) with a handgun. They are notoriously weak, so much so that they are known to fail to penetrate a person's sternum. This is the greatest con for handguns for HD, IMO but again, if you're more comfortable and accurate with one over the other two options, it's better for you.

[DTRrex]

Calls using a rifle for HD stupid.
Suggests poverty ass handgun rounds with HALLOW points are ideal.

You don't know what you're talking about. Not saying a handgun can't be the right choice for someone, but to suggest a rifle is stupid to use is asinine. Is over penetration a concern? Sure, but it's a concern with any platform.

Handguns will absolutely penetrate drywall. They are also notoriously weak. If you're comfortable and accurate with a rifle, it is your best option. Largest capacity, easiest of all three for follow up shots, extremely reliable, etc. etc.

I also wouldn't worry too much about over penetration (on humans) with a handgun. They are notoriously weak, so much so that they are known to fail to penetrate a person's sternum. This is the greatest con for handguns for HD, IMO but again, if you're more comfortable and accurate with one over the other two options, it's better for you.

I'm confused. On one hand you're saying I'm ridiculous for opting for a 45 jhp over a .223 to mitigate over penetration.... then you say that handguns are notoriously weak and have been known to not go through a sternum.

How many close range range .223 wouldn't exit the sternum?

Furthermore, in close range, urban situations, the round NOT exiting would be ideal! If I live in an apartment, condo, townhome, close single family homes (read: anywhere not in the middle of nowhere) I DON'T want my round exiting. Any round that exits the bad guy is just collateral damage and liability and in some cases, a tragedy.

[Ikeman83]

I'm confused. On one hand you're saying I'm ridiculous for opting for a 45 jhp over a .223 to mitigate over penetration.... then you say that handguns are notoriously weak and have been known to not go through a sternum.

How many close range range .223 wouldn't exit the sternum?

Furthermore, in close range, urban situations, the round NOT exiting would be ideal! If I live in an apartment, condo, townhome, close single family homes (read: anywhere not in the middle of nowhere) I DON'T want my round exiting. Any round that exits the bad guy is just collateral damage and liability and in some cases, a tragedy.

If a 5.56 round enters a person, it is not exiting with enough energy to penetrate anything, and it's going to be exiting in tiny pieces.

The issue is when either of these rounds misses. The nose on the 45 JHP is going to instantly fill with dry wall, and then proceed like an FMJ round through more walls than a 5.56 round will.

Please get out with your bro science.

[DTRrex]

If a 5.56 round enters a person, it is not exiting with enough energy to penetrate anything, and it's going to be exiting in tiny pieces.

The issue is when either of these rounds misses. The nose on the 45 JHP is going to instantly fill with dry wall, and then proceed like an FMJ round through more walls than a 5.56 round will.

Please get out with your bro science.

I was referring to rounds entering a person, not missed shots.

And unless you're using a .223 round like a PDX1, and you hit your target, a 45 jhp will (if it leaves the target) leave with less terminal velocity than the .223 would.

If we're talking missed shots then it's silly. If you live in a modern (non brick or cinder) dwelling that is mostly comprised of drywall then just about anything you use is going to potentially cause serious collateral damage, especially if you miss the target.

[Ikeman83]

I was referring to rounds entering a person, not missed shots.

And unless you're using a .223 round like a PDX1, and you hit your target, a 45 jhp will (if it leaves the target) leave with less terminal velocity than the .223 would.

If we're talking missed shots then it's silly. If you live in a modern (non brick or cinder) dwelling that is mostly comprised of drywall then just about anything you use is going to potentially cause serious collateral damage, especially if you miss the target.

That 5.56 round is going to be leaving in pieces, tumbling. There's nothing silly about talking about missed shots. Police hit their targets all of 33% of the time during shootings. Granted, they're using garbage triggers and handguns, but if you think you're going to have 100% accuracy, I've got some bad news for you.

Also, I give you Hornady TAP Urban: http://www.hornadyle.com/products/ri...5-gr-tap-urban

[RThoe]

I'm confused. On one hand you're saying I'm ridiculous for opting for a 45 jhp over a .223 to mitigate over penetration.... then you say that handguns are notoriously weak and have been known to not go through a sternum.

How many close range range .223 wouldn't exit the sternum?

Furthermore, in close range, urban situations, the round NOT exiting would be ideal! If I live in an apartment, condo, townhome, close single family homes (read: anywhere not in the middle of nowhere) I DON'T want my round exiting. Any round that exits the bad guy is just collateral damage and liability and in some cases, a tragedy.

I'm not saying your choice is ridiculous. After all, I've already expressed that your best choice may not be my best choice. What is ridiculous is your reasoning for it.

A .22 will penetrate several walls but it is generally regarded as weak against humans. Can it kill a human? Of course, but that doesn't make it an ideal caliber to use against them, same with handgun calibers. They are weak but can still penetrate drywall. Not sure what is confusing about that.

Hollow points are designed to not over penetrate their targets. At the same time, the expansion of the round is designed to create more tissue damage. This has a drawback, however. The round expanding makes it larger and thus slower once it hits its target. It is not uncommon for that already slow moving round to move that much slower once hitting flesh, so slow that it does not penetrate. I suggest you watch this video, it will really open you up to initial GSW research.



I'm not sure what exactly you are asking with "How many close range range .223 wouldn't exit the sternum?"

Are you asking (suggesting) how many .223 rounds will not over penetrate? If so, the answer is likely all of them. 5.56 is a very small round that travels extremely fast and is actually not extremely effective. The "tumble and break apart" notion is simply not a reality. 5.56 is notoriously weak amongst other intermediate cartridges. Don't take my word for it, look at any number of military AARs or other reports. Some of our most decorated modern fighters agree that the round is terrible against humans, including Chris Kyle. It travels at such a high rate of speed that it does not tumble or yaw. Instead, it creates a very small, clean hole in a person and unless you hit them in the heart, head or spine, the chances of it incapacitating them is unlikely. Over penetration is almost guaranteed with 5.56.

Again, over penetration is practically unavoidable. Listing it as a reason for choosing one platform or caliber over the other is ridiculous. Rounds penetrate drywall differently than flesh and bone.

I agree that over penetration is bad and definitely not ideal if you live with others in close proximity, however, it is hard to avoid. At the same time, the main goal is to stop the threat and because virtually every round can and will penetrate drywall, you should not factor that into your decision making process.

The best way to avoid unnecessary over penetration (aka misses) is to become accurate and proficient.

If a 5.56 round enters a person, it is not exiting with enough energy to penetrate anything, and it's going to be exiting in tiny pieces.

The issue is when either of these rounds misses. The nose on the 45 JHP is going to instantly fill with dry wall, and then proceed like an FMJ round through more walls than a 5.56 round will.

Please get out with your bro science.

I disagree, though I bet you already knew that. 5.56 does not tumble or yaw or fragment, it passes through a human (in most scenarios) with a good amount of velocity and can definitely penetrate whatever is behind it.

[iifymbro]

cheapo 12ga mossberg pump is a great home defense gun honestly, you don't want over penetration through walls and chit... go with 00 buck shot, make sure it patterns well at reasonable defense distance out of your gun... save all the over penetration for the bedroom

00 buck will penetrate 4 interior walls (8 pieces of sheetrock).

[iifymbro]

While 00 buck will penetrate anything, you can miss with it because there are only 9 pellets. I would actually use size 4 or 6 feild shot because there are about 200+ pellets and at 20 yards, the likelyhood that you will hit your target is basically 100%. Anyone who gets hit at 20 yards even with small pellets aint going anywhere. You can always take another shot if you need to.

Using a pistol or a rifle in the dark means you have a very high chance of missing.

There's these things called flashlights, don't know if you've ever heard of them. Companies makes ones that attach to the rails of a gun...

Also, most people don't have 20yards of open space in their house.

[iifymbro]

I'm not saying your choice is ridiculous. After all, I've already expressed that your best choice may not be my best choice. What is ridiculous is your reasoning for it.

A .22 will penetrate several walls but it is generally regarded as weak against humans. Can it kill a human? Of course, but that doesn't make it an ideal caliber to use against them, same with handgun calibers. They are weak but can still penetrate drywall. Not sure what is confusing about that.

Hollow points are designed to not over penetrate their targets. At the same time, the expansion of the round is designed to create more tissue damage. This has a drawback, however. The round expanding makes it larger and thus slower once it hits its target. It is not uncommon for that already slow moving round to move that much slower once hitting flesh, so slow that it does not penetrate. I suggest you watch this video, it will really open you up to initial GSW research.



I'm not sure what exactly you are asking with "How many close range range .223 wouldn't exit the sternum?"

Are you asking (suggesting) how many .223 rounds will not over penetrate? If so, the answer is likely all of them. 5.56 is a very small round that travels extremely fast and is actually not extremely effective. The "tumble and break apart" notion is simply not a reality. 5.56 is notoriously weak amongst other intermediate cartridges. Don't take my word for it, look at any number of military AARs or other reports. Some of our most decorated modern fighters agree that the round is terrible against humans, including Chris Kyle. It travels at such a high rate of speed that it does not tumble or yaw. Instead, it creates a very small, clean hole in a person and unless you hit them in the heart, head or spine, the chances of it incapacitating them is unlikely. Over penetration is almost guaranteed with 5.56.

Again, over penetration is practically unavoidable. Listing it as a reason for choosing one platform or caliber over the other is ridiculous. Rounds penetrate drywall differently than flesh and bone.

I agree that over penetration is bad and definitely not ideal if you live with others in close proximity, however, it is hard to avoid. At the same time, the main goal is to stop the threat and because virtually every round can and will penetrate drywall, you should not factor that into your decision making process.

Military hate the green tip 5.56 round.

[Sergis]

why not both??

Taurus judge with .410 buckshot

just dual wield

auto shotgun in one hand deagle in the other

any robber will chit his pants and run away screaming its not fair you cant do that in counterstrike

[ChristianBBer]

You need to think 1 step before home gun protection.

You need an alert system. Do you really think a would-be-robber will publicly announce when they will rob your house ?

Here are my alert systems,

1. German Shepherd,
2. My girlfriends **** head ****zu... barks at the slightest bit of noise... fcking regardless of the time of day.
3. Security camera - text message alerts when there is motion on a specific zone.


If you can pass all 3 alert systems at my place then go ahead and rob it because that's just amazing what you did.

[GettinSwoleBrah]

Anything will do. You know the power of ending another soul.

[Kiknskreem]

1) Nearly any type of rifle, ESPECIALLY a 5.56/.223 AR round, is absolutely stupid to use for defense. My jaw legit dropped seeing how many idiots suggested this.... all I'm imagining is someone belting off 20 rounds of 5.56 in an apartment or condo and killing 7 of their neighbors. Please, for the love of God, unless you live in the country or forest, do not use an AR style rifle for home defense.

You are an idiot with absolutely zero understanding of ballistics.

.223 is a great round to use as the high velocity causes the bullets to fragment, and they will in most cases actually penetrate less than typical handgun calibers.

[turbodiesel_kai]

[/b]


Everything prior to the bold is just bad advice because it's bro science and/or potentially dangerous to others. The bold is bad advice because it's a good way to go to prison for life for murder.

i'im open minded, what would be better considering i can't see **** in teh middle of the night and there's no way i could hit a barn with a pistol at 10 ft?

[turbodiesel_kai]

why not both??

Taurus judge with .410 buckshot

that's what i thought and it seemed to make sense. i have a public defender for that reason, but i'm no expert.

Please make it stop...

what's wrong with this as a choice? like i said, i'm no expert, i'm just going on what other people who are much more knowledgeable than me told me would be a good choice.
Keep in mind, i live alone and if my gf is over, obviously she's in bed with me so i'm not worried about accidentallyh shooting her.

[FriskiesTheCat]

Good Lord, it is sad and disappointing to see the amount of chit information being perpetuated in this thread. As a gun advocate, this is why we need more stringent training for anyone that wishes to own a gun.

1) Nearly any type of rifle, ESPECIALLY a 5.56/.223 AR round, is absolutely stupid to use for defense. My jaw legit dropped seeing how many idiots suggested this.... all I'm imagining is someone belting off 20 rounds of 5.56 in an apartment or condo and killing 7 of their neighbors. Please, for the love of God, unless you live in the country or forest, do not use an AR style rifle for home defense.

2) The shotgun is a classic choice and often perpetuated as the king of home defense because of of it's lesser need for accuracy and the myth behind the sound of pump action scaring away an intruder. While these notions hold "some" merit, a shotgun is often hard to quickly access, gives too limited mobility, and less capacity.... not to mention that in close quarters, if you stumble upon am intruder, disarming a shotgun is not particularly difficult.

3) The handgun is my preferred selection of home defense. Ideally, if you're comfortable with the recoil and can accurately reset your shot on a .45 in a hallow point round, then that's the best bet. Lower velocity (less chance of collateral penetration) but good stopping power and most full sizes will give you at least 8+ rounds. A handgun also gives you preferred manoeuvrability and capacity compared to a shotgun.

Personally I think a handgun in the bedroom and a shotgun accessible by the front door are the best.

I use a 9mm for my carry because it's light and I'm incredibly accurate with it. .45 1911 for primary home defense and a 12 Guage as a backup. Gas and bolt action rifles are just for fun and potential apocalypse.

9mm and .45 have the same FBI penetration standard of 12 inches. They both produce about 400 ft lbs of energy. They're about the same diameter. .355 vs .451. A full size 9mm will usually hold 15-17 rounds vs 8 in a 1911 makes your caliber theory invalid.

[myProgress]

One you can shoot and handle.

[Kiknskreem]

fror home defense i chose the Taurus Public defender. Loaded with .410 shells, it's great to grab in the middle of the night and hit whatever you point at it. Particularly me because i can't see **** in the middle of the night without m y contacts in. I can just aim at the noise and pretty much hit it.

You shouldn't be shooting at anything you haven't positively ID'd as a threat.

[Kiknskreem]

i live alone and if my gf is over, obviously she's in bed with me so i'm not worried about accidentallyh shooting her.

She could be up and moving about. You need to ID your target.

On the few occasions where I've heard a bump in the night that made me reach for my gun, the first thing I do is reach across the bed to confirm that my wife is in it.

[turbodiesel_kai]

She could be up and moving about. You need to ID your target.

On the few occasions where I've heard a bump in the night that made me reach for my gun, the first thing I do is reach across the bed to confirm that my wife is in it.

if she gets out of bed, it wakes me up every time. i'm a light sleeper. You're right though.

[Swamp Dog]

One you can shoot and handle.

This. A pistol is more practical than a longarm simply because of space limitations. Any pistol would be better than almost any other weapon. A revolver is more reliable than autos but tend to be more expensive. Not going to get into calibers or models. Go to the range store pick some up, shoot them, see what you like.

[turbodiesel_kai]

You shouldn't be shooting at anything you haven't positively ID'd as a threat.

of ocurse not. no way i'd just start firing away at anything moving. i mean there's never been a time where i even reached for it, nor am I looking for an excuse to.
i guess my question is, since a couple recommended not using .410 shells in a Public Defender, what would be better considering i'm legally blind without my contacts in? imagine having terrible vision in the dark in the middle of the night, what would you use?

[Swamp Dog]

of ocurse not. no way i'd just start firing away at anything moving. i mean there's never been a time where i even reached for it, nor am I looking for an excuse to.
i guess my question is, since a couple recommended not using .410 shells, what would be better considering i'm legally blind without my contacts in? imagine having terrible vision in the dark in the middle of the night, what would you use?

Something with a tactical light. Identify the target and wherever the middle of the light beam is, boom.