Sexual orientation and choice.

[Fishman15]

I felt obligated to inform the O35 about your gay trolling subject. Carry on..........

Gay trolling is hard work. If Kelton is not getting paid for this he should be....

[BrotherWolf]

This is the Christian perspective. The perspective, by the way, that our country was founded upon. In God We Trust.

that's extremely false this country was not founded on christian principles and the motto "In God We Trust"
was adopted as the official motto of the United States in 1956 as a replacement of E pluribus unum "Out of many, one"

“The Government of the United States of America is not in any sense founded on the Christian religion.”
~1797 Treaty of Tripoli signed by Founding Father John Adams

“Christianity neither is, nor ever was a part of the common law.”
~Founding Father Thomas Jefferson, letter to Dr. Thomas Cooper, February 10, 1814,

“We have abundant reason to rejoice that in this Land the light of truth and reason has triumphed over the power of bigotry and superstition… In this enlightened Age and in this Land of equal liberty it is our boast, that a man’s religious tenets will not forfeit the protection of the Laws, nor deprive him of the right of attaining and holding the highest Offices that are known in the United States.”
~Founding Father George Washington, letter to the members of the New Church in Baltimore, January 27, 1793

[2nd_chance]

From a Christian perspective, god is a loving god. Why would a loving god allow all of mankind to suffer the consequences of one man's (Adam's) sin? When we start looking at the Bible stories in a logical way, they make little sense. Even on a spiritual level. To me, it's more likely that the story was man made...a story that was made up as a response to what the men of that time didn't understand about their surroundings and what might exist beyond them.

He didn't "allow" it. He sent His only Son to be nailed to a cross that we could be free.

Further, Christianity is not about what we think, but what the Bible says. People are free to create their own religions and have a god of their own preferences. But if the Bible is true, there will be a day of reckoning.

[2nd_chance]

America is a secular nation. Nobody cares about what your God or your bible says. Go to Saudia Arabia if you want to live in a country that shares your views on gay people.

Just because you don't care doesn't mean "nobody cares." Don't start threads and ask for people's opinion if you can't handle them.

[Keltron]

that's extremely false this country was not founded on christian principles and the motto "In God We Trust"
was adopted as the official motto of the United States in 1956 as a replacement of E pluribus unum "Out of many, one"

“The Government of the United States of America is not in any sense founded on the Christian religion.”
~1797 Treaty of Tripoli signed by Founding Father John Adams

“Christianity neither is, nor ever was a part of the common law.”
~Founding Father Thomas Jefferson, letter to Dr. Thomas Cooper, February 10, 1814,

“We have abundant reason to rejoice that in this Land the light of truth and reason has triumphed over the power of bigotry and superstition… In this enlightened Age and in this Land of equal liberty it is our boast, that a man’s religious tenets will not forfeit the protection of the Laws, nor deprive him of the right of attaining and holding the highest Offices that are known in the United States.”
~Founding Father George Washington, letter to the members of the New Church in Baltimore, January 27, 1793

Dont waste your breath/keystrokes. Save it for gay Genovese cyber sex..

You won't get through to him. People like him will admonish Muslim countries for not having secular governments and will condemn the Islamic world for being ant-freedom and anti-choice but they'll go on and run their mouth about how we are a Christian nation and they'll want government laws to coincide with their religion.

[2nd_chance]

that's extremely false this country was not founded on christian principles and the motto "In God We Trust"
was adopted as the official motto of the United States in 1956 as a replacement of E pluribus unum "Out of many, one"

“The Government of the United States of America is not in any sense founded on the Christian religion.”
~1797 Treaty of Tripoli signed by Founding Father John Adams

“Christianity neither is, nor ever was a part of the common law.”
~Founding Father Thomas Jefferson, letter to Dr. Thomas Cooper, February 10, 1814,

“We have abundant reason to rejoice that in this Land the light of truth and reason has triumphed over the power of bigotry and superstition… In this enlightened Age and in this Land of equal liberty it is our boast, that a man’s religious tenets will not forfeit the protection of the Laws, nor deprive him of the right of attaining and holding the highest Offices that are known in the United States.”
~Founding Father George Washington, letter to the members of the New Church in Baltimore, January 27, 1793

John Adams:
The general principles on which the fathers achieved independence were the general principles of Christianity. I will avow that I then believed, and now believe, that those general principles of Christianity are as eternal and immutable as the existence and attributes of God.

I have examined all religions, and the result is that the Bible is the best book in the world.

George Washington:
You do well to wish to learn our arts and ways of life, and above all, the religion of Jesus Christ. These will make you a greater and happier people than you are.

The blessing and protection of Heaven are at all times necessary but especially so in times of public distress and danger. The General hopes and trusts that every officer and man will endeavor to live and act as becomes a Christian soldier, defending the dearest rights and liberties of his country.

I can provide dozens of quotes from our founding fathers to prove your position wrong. But that's not the point of the thread.

[JohnnyBurst]

Don't quote the bible, because humans are selective but by nature. The bible has been used to promote slavery, hate, continuing the ban on interracial marriage, etc.



It has been used as a tool for oppression for thousands of years, from the invasion of Muslim lands during the Crusades to the genocide of American Indian's to now an attempt to remove the rights of a a group of citizens that share a certain trait. It isn't to "save", you're being fooled.

[Keltron]

John Adams:
The general principles on which the fathers achieved independence were the general principles of Christianity. I will avow that I then believed, and now believe, that those general principles of Christianity are as eternal and immutable as the existence and attributes of God.

I have examined all religions, and the result is that the Bible is the best book in the world.

George Washington:
You do well to wish to learn our arts and ways of life, and above all, the religion of Jesus Christ. These will make you a greater and happier people than you are.

The blessing and protection of Heaven are at all times necessary but especially so in times of public distress and danger. The General hopes and trusts that every officer and man will endeavor to live and act as becomes a Christian soldier, defending the dearest rights and liberties of his country.

I can provide dozens of quotes from our founding fathers to prove your position wrong. But that's not the point of the thread.

So what is your ideal situation? All laws are based on or have to coincide with Christianity. And non-christians can be in the US as long as they abide by the laws?

[whatevergirl]

What are we all being ‘’saved’’ from? If a god exists, I don’t believe that he is the simpleton that is portrayed in the Bible. When I think of the idea of a supernatural being, who created the whole universe…I don’t think of one who one minute is awesome in power and strength, and the next…is pissed that I ate pork.

[sy2502]

John Adams:
The general principles on which the fathers achieved independence were the general principles of Christianity. I will avow that I then believed, and now believe, that those general principles of Christianity are as eternal and immutable as the existence and attributes of God.

I have examined all religions, and the result is that the Bible is the best book in the world.

George Washington:
You do well to wish to learn our arts and ways of life, and above all, the religion of Jesus Christ. These will make you a greater and happier people than you are.

The blessing and protection of Heaven are at all times necessary but especially so in times of public distress and danger. The General hopes and trusts that every officer and man will endeavor to live and act as becomes a Christian soldier, defending the dearest rights and liberties of his country.

I can provide dozens of quotes from our founding fathers to prove your position wrong. But that's not the point of the thread.

Let's compare the 10 Commandments with the Constitution, shall we?


"You shall have no other gods before Me".- 1st Amendment: Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof.

"You shall not make idols." - 1st Amendment: Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof.

"You shall not take the name of the LORD your God in vain." - 1st Amendment: Congress shall make no law abridging the freedom of speech.

'Remember the Sabbath day, to keep it holy." - US Law... ?

"Honor your father and your mother. - US Law... ?

'You shall not murder." - US Law: check

'You shall not commit adultery." - US Law... ?

"You shall not steal." - US Law: check

'You shall not bear false witness against your neighbor." - US Law: check

"You shall not covet." - US Law... ?

So we have 3 commandments that directly contradict the law of the land, 3 commandments that are actually in our laws, and the rest the law couldn't care less. You'll excuse me if I laugh every time I hear America is a nation founded on Judeo Christian values.

[BrotherWolf]

John Adams:
The general principles on which the fathers achieved independence were the general principles of Christianity. I will avow that I then believed, and now believe, that those general principles of Christianity are as eternal and immutable as the existence and attributes of God.

I have examined all religions, and the result is that the Bible is the best book in the world.

George Washington:
You do well to wish to learn our arts and ways of life, and above all, the religion of Jesus Christ. These will make you a greater and happier people than you are.

The blessing and protection of Heaven are at all times necessary but especially so in times of public distress and danger. The General hopes and trusts that every officer and man will endeavor to live and act as becomes a Christian soldier, defending the dearest rights and liberties of his country.

I can provide dozens of quotes from our founding fathers to prove your position wrong. But that's not the point of the thread.

go ahead , but the personal beliefs of the founding fathers have little to do with what principals the country was founded on , they were very clear that religion was not the the principles the country was founded on

the separation of church and state was a big part of their credo

[2nd_chance]

What are we all being ‘’saved’’ from? If a god exists, I don’t believe that he is the simpleton that is portrayed in the Bible. When I think of the idea of a supernatural being, who created the whole universe…I don’t think of one who one minute is awesome in power and strength, and the next…is pissed that I ate pork.

The God I worship is not a simpleton. I suppose it's acceptable to bash someone's beliefs as long as they are not in the new protected group.

[BrotherWolf]

You'll excuse me if I laugh every time I hear America is a nation founded on Judeo Christian values.

It's not and they made it very clear that religion and politics have no business together , they fought what was common throughout the world which was the dominant presence of religion in government
and now we these folks trying to bring us back to the middle ages

[2nd_chance]

So what is your ideal situation? All laws are based on or have to coincide with Christianity. And non-christians can be in the US as long as they abide by the laws?

Not at all. I really have no interest in what the government does or doesn't do, beyond maintaining the freedom to express my beliefs without censorship. You may do the same.

[Keltron]

Let's compare the 10 Commandments with the Constitution, shall we?


"You shall have no other gods before Me".- 1st Amendment: Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof.

"You shall not make idols." - 1st Amendment: Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof.

"You shall not take the name of the LORD your God in vain." - 1st Amendment: Congress shall make no law abridging the freedom of speech.

'Remember the Sabbath day, to keep it holy." - US Law... ?

"Honor your father and your mother. - US Law... ?

'You shall not murder." - US Law: check

'You shall not commit adultery." - US Law... ?

"You shall not steal." - US Law: check

'You shall not bear false witness against your neighbor." - US Law: check

"You shall not covet." - US Law... ?

So we have 3 commandments that directly contradict the law of the land, 3 commandments that are actually in our laws, and the rest the law couldn't care less. You'll excuse me if I laugh every time I hear America is a nation founded on Judeo Christian values.

I dont know who you are.. I dont know what you want.. but when Im on recharge I will find you.. and I will rep you.

The God I worship is not a simpleton. I suppose it's acceptable to bash someone's beliefs as long as they are not in the new protected group.

All religions believe that so she's bashing (if you even consider it bashing) them all, not just Christianity.

[2nd_chance]

All religions believe that so she's bashing (if you even consider it bashing) them all, not just Christianity.

Untrue. She said that "the God of the Bible is a simpleton." All religions do not use the Bible.

[JohnnyBurst]

What are we all being ‘’saved’’ from? If a god exists, I don’t believe that he is the simpleton that is portrayed in the Bible. When I think of the idea of a supernatural being, who created the whole universe…I don’t think of one who one minute is awesome in power and strength, and the next…is pissed that I ate pork.

"Hell".

The God I worship is not a simpleton. I suppose it's acceptable to bash someone's beliefs as long as they are not in the new protected group.

Stop trying to portray yourself as a victim. You're not. Scientists don't attack bible study but Christians attack science at every possible turn. Gay people don't burn down churches, but Christians have attacked and burned down gay clubs. Gay's don't attack Christians when they see them in the street. Christians have beaten and murdered gays in public SOLELY due to them being gay. Christians have killed and will continue to kill due to the their interpretation of the bible. Christians bash everything that goes against their religion.

[2nd_chance]

Stop trying to portray yourself as a victim. You're not. Scientists don't attack bible study but Christians attack science at every possible turn. Gay people don't burn down churches, but Christians have attacked and burned down gay clubs. Gay's don't attack Christians when they see them in the street. Christians have beaten and murdered gays in public SOLELY due to them being gay. Christians have killed and will continue to kill due to the their interpretation of the bible. Christians bash everything that goes against their religion.

Lol... victim...

[Keltron]

Untrue. She said that "the God of the Bible is a simpleton." All religions do not use the Bible.

Ok, I stand corrected then. But just so you know that Christians aren't being singled out, I see lots of liberal, secularist journalists bash Islam as well. But in other stories, they defend muslims. It sounds wishy washy but to me it's unbiased journalism at it's finest.

The Young Turks and Secular Talk with Kyle Kulinski are really good about this. In stories of things like legitimate discrimination or whatever, they'll defend Muslims but in cases where say, a Muslim wants people around them to cater to his/her beliefs, theyll out right speak out against them.

Maybe it's not as prevalent as we'd like to bash Islam as equally as Christianity but I figured you'd like to know of a few instances.

[Keltron]

"Hell".



Stop trying to portray yourself as a victim. You're not. Scientists don't attack bible study but Christians attack science at every possible turn. Gay people don't burn down churches, but Christians have attacked and burned down gay clubs. Gay's don't attack Christians when they see them in the street. Christians have beaten and murdered gays in public SOLELY due to them being gay. Christians have killed and will continue to kill due to the their interpretation of the bible. Christians bash everything that goes against their religion.

Very true, but in all fairness, that wouldn't give someone else a free card bash individual christians for what other christians ahve done.

[2nd_chance]

Ok, I stand corrected then. But just so you know that Christians aren't being singled out, I see lots of liberal, secularist journalists bash Islam as well. But in other stories, they defend muslims. It sounds wishy washy but to me it's unbiased journalism at it's finest.

The Young Turks and Secular Talk with Kyle Kulinski are really good about this. In stories of things like legitimate discrimination or whatever, they'll defend Muslims but in cases where say, a Muslim wants people around them to cater to his/her beliefs, theyll out right speak out against them.

Maybe it's not as prevalent as we'd like to bash Islam as equally as Christianity but I figured you'd like to know of a few instances.

Everybody has the right to believe what they want.

[whatevergirl]

The God I worship is not a simpleton. I suppose it's acceptable to bash someone's beliefs as long as they are not in the new protected group.

I'm not bashing your beliefs. I'm stating my view, only. I respect your right to worship and to worship whomever ...however you wish. [And you know I respect you, david.]

But religion has a way of spilling over into areas it shouldn't, telling people how to live their lives, and yet atheists are called the bullies. Even when I was religious though, I felt that governments should always be secular in how they govern.

[Karl_Hungus]

But religion has a way of spilling over into areas it shouldn't, telling people how to live their lives,

Replace the word "religion" with "government" and you also have a true statement. It is a common human quality to want to impose their beliefs on others, whether that be Islam, Christianity, various government regimes/ institutions, or current political fads. It certainly is not limited to religion.

[sy2502]

If a god exists, I don’t believe that he is the simpleton that is portrayed in the Bible. When I think of the idea of a supernatural being, who created the whole universe…I don’t think of one who one minute is awesome in power and strength, and the next…is pissed that I ate pork.

I am atheist and I think I have a higher opinion of god than some people who believe in god. Like the fact if he existed he wouldn't be as superficial and petty as some religions make it to be. Heck most human beings that don't stress about minutiae like what food you should eat on what day, or what color your clothes should be, because they have a life. And yet god the supreme infinite being has nothing better to do that agonize over this stuff? They make him look like the average nitwit that watches the Kardashians and whose whole life revolves around what color eye shadow she's wearing, how big her butt is, and what she named her kid. Seriously, I'd have thought people who believe in god would have a higher opinion of their god than this.

[thor93]

I never understood why people make such a big deal of whether it's a choice or not. You know what's a choice? Speech. You know what else is a choice? Religion. If something being a choice somehow makes it less important or less deserving of protection, we can do away with religion too then.

More like do away with being Anti-Religion. There is ALOT more hostility towards that than being anti-God nowadays.

Religion and/or spirituality in general offers great comfort for many in the world who find very little to live for anymore. Many people hate the world they are stuck in and find great comfort and uplifting to discuss or even just casually mention about they're beliefs which give them a greater sense of hope and meaningfullness to they're otherwise pointless feeling existence of futility on earth.

[whatevergirl]

Replace the word "religion" with "government" and you also have a true statement. It is a common human quality to want to impose their beliefs on others, whether that be Islam, Christianity, various government regimes/ institutions, or current political fads. It certainly is not limited to religion.

true

I am atheist and I think I have a higher opinion of god than some people who believe in god. Like the fact if he existed he wouldn't be as superficial and petty as some religions make it to be. Heck most human beings that don't stress about minutiae like what food you should eat on what day, or what color your clothes should be, because they have a life. And yet god the supreme infinite being has nothing better to do that agonize over this stuff? They make him look like the average nitwit that watches the Kardashians and whose whole life revolves around what color eye shadow she's wearing, how big her butt is, and what she named her kid. Seriously, I'd have thought people who believe in god would have a higher opinion of their god than this.

lol yep, and repped

[BrotherWolf]

"Hell".



Stop trying to portray yourself as a victim. You're not. Scientists don't attack bible study but Christians attack science at every possible turn. Gay people don't burn down churches, but Christians have attacked and burned down gay clubs. Gay's don't attack Christians when they see them in the street. Christians have beaten and murdered gays in public SOLELY due to them being gay. Christians have killed and will continue to kill due to the their interpretation of the bible. Christians bash everything that goes against their religion.

exactly .....

[bodyhard]

They should just remove the part of the brain or the gene that makes people gay, problem solved!

[sy2502]

More like do away with being Anti-Religion. There is ALOT more hostility towards that than being anti-God nowadays.

Not in America. And if you don't believe me, let me know when the first openly atheist president gets into office.

[Keltron]

Ah... I see Karl Marx finally joined this debate. Wait. What was the OP about again?

Communist buttsex.