Thoughts on Animal vs. Plant protein

[chicky74]

I'm a vegetarian (Boo, I know). I have been lifting consistently for about 2 years and keeping my protein as high as possible given my dietary restrictions (90g per day avg). Now I am starting to wonder if the plant protein, in itself, is making it harder to gain muscle.

Curious if anyone has any scientifically backed info on whether I am shooting myself in the foot by being Veg...

[AFC96]

If you are only getting your protein from plant based sources, you gotta eat more than what you aim for.

[chicky74]

If you are only getting your protein from plant based sources, you gotta eat more than what you aim for.

I eat eggs and dairy, but about 50% of my protein is from plants. Any thoughts on how much more? 50% more? any why? If it's just because the amino acid profile isn't complete, I deal with that by food combining things like rice and beans.

[magician27]

if i average on 90 grams , i would make it all quality protein. just invest in whey protein, thats best option for vegeterians.

[ven0mZ]

I know a guy who won't touch anything but vegetables and milk. Not even eggs. He freakin huge though, go t a nice V-taper goin, huge biceps, he just eats a ****load of beans and chugs whey protein shakes blended with spinach

[Mrpb]

I'm a vegetarian (Boo, I know). I have been lifting consistently for about 2 years and keeping my protein as high as possible given my dietary restrictions (90g per day avg).

143 * 0.8 = 115 gram.

115 gram should be your minimum if you're looking to maximise muscle gain.

Spreading your protein is also recommended. To maximise muscle gain at least 4 meals with >25 grams protein.

[BipolarBrah]

Protein from animals are generally more complete, i.e. they have a greater variety of essential amino acids. But as long as you are getting your plant proteins from a wide range of sources (rice, wheat, a variety of beans) you shouldn't have any problem getting adequate amounts of all essential amino acids.

Some thoughts, a diet whose protein comes largely from animal sources would be receiving non-macronutrients that a plant-based diet wouldn't have. For example, beef contains undefined hormones, growth factors, and large quantities of creatine. Despite these molecules being known to be synthesized de novo, I can imagine flooding your system with constant intake would cause anabolic effects many "clean eating" bodybuilders swear by.

If you are getting your protein sources from a variety of plants and supplementing with eggs and cheese, you should have no problems with your amino acid profile. Stick to the 1g protein, 1lb body weight suggestion.

[NotThereYet25]

Spreading your protein is also recommended. To maximise muscle gain at least 4 meals with >25 grams protein.

this is not likely to have any noticeable benefits compared to any other less equal spread.

[chicky74]

143 * 0.8 = 115 gram.

115 gram should be your minimum if you're looking to maximise muscle gain.

Spreading your protein is also recommended. To maximise muscle gain at least 4 meals with >25 grams protein.

Thanks all for your thoughts!
follow up q: Is it not 1g per LEAN body mass? I'm still not eating enough protein though...

[desslok]

Thanks all for your thoughts!
follow up q: Is it not 1g per LEAN body mass? I'm still not eating enough protein though...

The 1gm per is more of a general rule for those bad at math. It gets a little more complicated based on your BF%, macros, caloric deficit vs surplus, etc. But short answer is .8 is plenty for the average gym goer.

Anyways sounds like you are getting various sources so I wouldn't sweat it.

[discowhore]

Thanks all for your thoughts!
follow up q: Is it not 1g per LEAN body mass? I'm still not eating enough protein though...

What type of foods are you eating on a daily basis?
I'm vegetarian too, but still managing to get around 150g of protein a day.

[EjnarKolinkar]

OT:
I watched this fellow buy 2 bags of organic plant protein other day at the "healthy food store." I was picking up some veg there as they have great produce sales. So I go over to check out what he was buying (was samplign some coffee in teh aisle.)

10 oz bag, 1oz serving, 15 grams protein, $20.

Just about shat myself in the aisle. I could not even make it a day on that with my normal intake

I eat eggs and dairy

I can't see how you would have any problem then if you structured your intake well if vegetarian is your preference.

Thanks all for your thoughts!
follow up q: Is it not 1g per LEAN body mass? I'm still not eating enough protein though...

I've never seen a problem with that method myself. But I have to believe you have more than 90 pounds LBM.

[chicky74]

Yup, veg protein powder is expensive! I eat a good mix of foods every day:
eggs, cottage cheese, yogurt, rice protein (in bars), peas, beans & rice, and seitan.

I'm probably at Lean body mass of ~105 so I'm definitely under. It seems like this may be an issue of not getting enough protein vs. not getting good quality protein.

Thanks!!!

[OT2000]

Yup, veg protein powder is expensive! I eat a good mix of foods every day:
eggs, cottage cheese, yogurt, rice protein (in bars), peas, beans & rice, and seitan.

I'm probably at Lean body mass of ~105 so I'm definitely under. It seems like this may be an issue of not getting enough protein vs. not getting good quality protein.

Thanks!!!

Personally I think getting in 90 grams is fine overall and you can still build off of that. It would be pretty easy to get in an extra 10-20 grams extra. Adding an extra egg or extra cottage cheese shouldn't be to hard. If it is impacting you total cals then drop your carbs slightly to make the difference.

Keep in mind that plant and animal protein is quality. Don't negate one or the other because you're worried about quality.

[FaroukNaas]

dat leucine content

[TRexLifts]

Plant protein is often incomplete so you can't rely on a single plant source for all of your protein. I would strongly recommend you look into supplementing your protein intake as well as a vegetarian.

[determined4000]

no plant protein is inferior to animal protein
yes you should try to get at least 1g/lb LBM
no you aren't sabotaging yourself, you are just not doing what would be considered optimal to build muscle

[Mrpb]

this is not likely to have any noticeable benefits compared to any other less equal spread.

Actually it is more beneficial for muscle protein synthesis.

http://www.nutritionandmetabolism.co.../1/91/abstract

[LetterRip]

In addition to many plant proteins being incomplete (significantly deficient in one or more essential amino acids), plant proteins also contain antinutrients and other constituents that prevent metabolism of all of the amino acids. Phytic acid and fiber content can prevent up to half of the amino acids from being metabolized. So you will typically need to make sure that the amino acid profiles are balanced to ensure you get a complete protein and you will need to eat about 50-100% more grams of protein from vegetable sources to get the same equivalent protein absorption.

This can be mitigated somewhat via lactofermentation and usage of enzyme additives. Unfortunately I'm not aware of any studies that give information on how much those improve the amino acid digestion and absorption.

Also there are other constituents of meat based protein sources (such as creatine) that help with muscle growth that are limited or unavailable from vegetable protein.

[NotThereYet25]

Actually it is more beneficial for muscle protein synthesis.

http://www.nutritionandmetabolism.co.../1/91/abstract

it is, yes. is it significant enough to make a real difference in the mirror? probably not.
not saying one shouldn't spread like you suggested, just that it's not worth getting too anal about it.

[Mrpb]

it is, yes. is it significant enough to make a real difference in the mirror?

There's no certainty yet.

But if you're trying to maximise muscle gain, as I specified earlier, it makes sense to have enough protein in a meal to stimulate muscle protein synthesis.