Not a thread you would expect from me (training lulls)

[induced_drag]

It has been over 5 years since my return to the gym. In that time, I may have missed 2 workouts (unplanned). (one when I had double pneumonia and just guessing there was probably at least one other). A lot of you know me and at times....well.... I have been told I may be a little overzealous. You can pick any adjectives you want from across the spectrum. "very passionate" to "a$$hole" and they will be accurate to someone depending on their point of view. With that said, I know that some out there "get it". I also understand that against the backdrop of a life long commitment to fitness, I cant hold a candle to some.


I am in arguably (no not arguably...undeniably) the best shape of my life. I "look" like I train. Not just a little P90X . I am honest enough, that I can look a picture of myself and know that I have exceeded every expectation I might have ever set for myself when I set out to get "back in shape". I am also what many would consider decently "strong". @200lbs with a 650 deadlift, 550 squat and 420 bench.

BUT.....I find myself lacking the motivation lately. (not a normal thing for me). In the past 5 years, I never really had a "lull". With that said, I have still not missed a workout. I HAVE dragged my ass in the gym regardless.

Part of this may have to do with training which has changed to something A LOT easier on my body. I have been doing more "bodybuilding" type training. This is a double edged sword. I am actually making progress and (I think) I am growing a little. (yea....I know..not something I thought possible, but since I have done very little to no sarcoplasmic hypertrophy training, maybe some growth left on tap there.) The downside is I find "pumping up" not very fulfilling. I like how I feel after (the muscle belly fullness), but I just dont get excited about doing the process of it. I enjoy lifting heavy sh!t....period. I dont think I can simplify it any more.

Life always finds equilibrium....even in death. My prior training was taking a toll on my body. The constant heavy lifting caused me to walk around always nursing some nagging injury. I did not complain about it....it was just a part of daily life. I live with constant neck pain from my fracture, and my shoulder has always been screwed....so it was just another part of what was "normal" for me.

My lighter training has found me feeling so much better day to day. Aches and pains are almost gone (except the ones that wont go and have nothing to do with lifting). I feel REALLY REALLY good. On top of that....I look my best. BUT the downside is, I feel like I am losing my desire to push myself to train.

Wow...what a crazy thought. Part of this may be prolonged lack of eating. I know it can mess with your mind. Nothing makes one feel more powerful that bloating up on food and going in the gym and hammering the weights relentlessly. While I am not 'skinny', I have never come close to this level of conditioning......and I am continuing to maintain it. I am still leaning out slowly through a carb cycling protocol I am experimenting with. (Bodyweight going back up, but abdominal skinfolds dropping)

I dont know WHAT to think..... Hoping for some insight.

[Flounderbout]

For me (obviously not even remotely in the same league either in strength or aesthetics) training for aesthetics is very hard, because there is no identifiable target. Training for strength is much much more motivating simply because there are identifiable and measurable goals - namely hitting new PRs.
Hence why I find any kind of deficit very hard. My numbers are going nowhere, and although I start to look better progress is slow and totally subjective. Whereas on a surplus I can chart my progress easily and measurably in bigger lifts.

[highiso]

I go thru the same thing at least once a year. And that time is now.

Trying to dial it down to single digit BF this time every year kills me and my motivation. I only dig myself out of the rut once I hit my leanest and begin to eat at maintenance again.

I ask myself often why I stick to this lifestyle. My only answer is that I have a goal, and I'm too far in to give up. But most importantly I have my health and many people who don't would do anything to have it as good as I do.

You'll push thru.

[Bo_Flecks]

Part of this may be prolonged lack of eating.

This was my first thought when I started reading your post.

[billb7581]

you can't have a lull... us lard asses look to you for motivation LOL

[bustasinclair]

I dont know WHAT to think..... Hoping for some insight.

Oh, oh, oh.....I know......how about a bodybuilding show!!!!

I'm with ya man, got the serious burnout going on right now too...and I'm 10 days out.

[Vytis]

Oh, oh, oh.....I know......how about a bodybuilding show!!!!

I'm with ya man, got the serious burnout going on right now too...and I'm 10 days out.

I second the notion!
And Busta, you are killing it!

[ironwill2008]

I dont know WHAT to think..... Hoping for some insight.

It's the hormonal change brought about by the prolonged calorie deficit.


Perhaps cmoore will weigh in on this topic; he has a better handle than I on the psychological and physiological aspects of maintaining a lean condition for a long period of time.

[drudixon]

This was my first thought when I started reading your post.

This.

Body will try everything to survive.

[jdtemple]

I fight the same fight, basically year round. Due to my excess skin and how stupid-easy I bloat up, I find myself cutting and cutting and cutting, and never getting quite there. I hit a wall, then bring my intake back up for a while, then try again.

So far, I have put on muscle over the years, but I have never been below maybe 12-15% bodyfat. It just doesn't happen. I have never had visible abs in my life, even as a skinny kid that was on the move 24/7.

From a motivational standpoint, I think I have been burned out for quite a while. I just keep going, because that's what I'm supposed to do, in order to avoid becoming the fat lazy turd I used to be.

I really can't remember actually enjoying a training session. I feel great right after I'm done. But, the rest of the day, I just feel beat up, tired, hungry, and irritable. I really envy those that have such a great degree of control over their appearance, they look damn near stage ready at all times. For me, that seems to be an unattainable goal.

It would be so much easier to just drop it all. I'd have more free time, a better social life, more room in the house (no more home gym), more time to focus on my hobbies (motorcycling and mountain biking), and feel less dread when it was time to travel or otherwise break my routine for a period of time.

I do it because I refuse to quit. This is what I do. Training, for me, is like brushing my teeth. Get it done, because it needs doing. Is it fun? Not a lot.

[EjnarKolinkar]

Sounds like you need a bridge between the training that makes your body feel good, and the training that lights your fire.

Maybe some longer periodized program, at least a period of the lifting you like best would always be on the horizon. Could be shooting for that period even with a "bodybuilding" or "general strength" block.

You probably already do this though.

[Jbizzlechizzle]

I go through the same thing every time I diet. You'll push through it ID, but setting a new goal for yourself might be a good idea to give you something to work toward. What you've achieved is what a lot of people will only dream to attain. I've set some attainable goals for myself (500 dl, 450 squat, 365 bp) and I should hit them over the next couple years if I remain consistent. Those goals are the only things keeping me going, but I still have really tough days where I'm dragging myself into the gym kicking and screaming.

[Mr. Someday]

ID - you are at an advanced level, and although there are still a few knowledgeable peeps on here, you are asking a college level question in a kindergarten class. My only suggestion is go check out the Mountaindog site and read up on some of Meadow's philosophy on this very subject. Take what you want out of it, but my guess is you will at least learn a thing or two.

[bustasinclair]

ID - you are at an advanced level, and although there are still a few knowledgeable peeps on here, you are asking a college level question in a kindergarten class. My only suggestion is go check out the Mountaindog site and read up on some of Meadow's philosophy on this very subject. Take what you want out of it, but my guess is you will at least learn a thing or two.

Hey now, we like it here in the Romper Room.

[Mr. Someday]

Hey now, we like it here in the Romper Room.

Lol. Like Carl always says....here for the lulz. However, you especially, know what I am trying to say. Now I am off to answer another "I am 6'2" and 156#...should I bulk or cut?" question....

[Flounderbout]

you are asking a college level question in a kindergarten class.

Good point. Only advanced bodybuilders could possibly have any sort of insight into the way people respond to different types of goals...

[Xscoot]

People go through this with their jobs, marriage and their lives in general. Bodybuilding is a very self centred hobby. You don't get a lot back in return from people in general. In other hobbies people get back mostly positive feedback. The reality is people in general look at bodybuilders in disdain for their own reasons. I just step back and give myself a pat on the back once in a while and tell myself I am doing good. Giving back by either donating blood, money, your time etc... to others balances the ying yang out and helps a lot. Oh, and that food thing is probably the real reason.

[Bo_Flecks]

Good point. Only advanced bodybuilders could possibly have any sort of insight into the way people respond to different types of goals...

My sarcasm detector just went off...



There are certain "advanced level" questions that can't be asked on this forum that I wouldn't have even the experience of a kindergartner to answer.

[JerryB]

The comment there is no identifiable target in training for aesthetics is not totally correct. Weight training for aesthetics is a goal setting activity regardless if for personal reasons or for competition.
Changing ones physique can be just as motivating as a personal best in a lift. Maybe more if you are concerned about your appearance.

Since you have been doing more bodybuilding type training then it's show time in the future. It's something you may consider. With the muscle bellies you developed with the heavy training, you definitely have an advantage over the P90X guys following the lean-gain approach.

[drudixon]

My sarcasm detector just went off...



There are certain "advanced level" questions that can't be asked on this forum that I wouldn't have even the experience of a kindergartner to answer.

Kinda like how the guys running the pharmaceutical regimens of the pros are of average build?

[DuracellBunny]

You have changed your training from where the results were mainly objective, to where they are mainly subjective. In addition to that, with the dieting messing around with your endocrines to probably a greater extent than normal (due to your medical history), you won't be perceiving things in quite the same way as before.

A more subjective arena + dieting (which changes your perceptions) + abnormal blood chemistry = confused and apathetic.

Get your dopamine and serotonin checked.

[ajdahlheimer]

Hey now, we like it here in the Romper Room.

Good call, Bustas. Now stop eating that paste (it's probably all carbs).....

[induced_drag]

WOW....lots of responses and I appreciate it. It helps to hear perspectives.

For me (obviously not even remotely in the same league either in strength or aesthetics) training for aesthetics is very hard, because there is no identifiable target. Training for strength is much much more motivating simply because there are identifiable and measurable goals - namely hitting new PRs.
Hence why I find any kind of deficit very hard. My numbers are going nowhere, and although I start to look better progress is slow and totally subjective. Whereas on a surplus I can chart my progress easily and measurably in bigger lifts.

That is part of it for sure. I have always enjoyed the black and white of reps and sets and PR's more than the subjective nature of "I look better".

I go thru the same thing at least once a year. And that time is now.

Trying to dial it down to single digit BF this time every year kills me and my motivation. I only dig myself out of the rut once I hit my leanest and begin to eat at maintenance again.

I ask myself often why I stick to this lifestyle. My only answer is that I have a goal, and I'm too far in to give up. But most importantly I have my health and many people who don't would do anything to have it as good as I do.

You'll push thru.

Man....I appreciate your perspective. You (like me) are not a naturally lean person. I KNOW you understand and have fought the fight. Maybe a more cyclical approach will benefit me over time.

This was my first thought when I started reading your post.

Thanks for dropping in and offering advice! I have always admired your dialed in nature when it comes to diet and nutrition. I think the food has a lot to do with it. If I were doing a contest, I would probably not be spending as much time languishing around in limbo. I would be dropping and dropping and then recovering post contest. I am trying to stay here. (at about that 3-4 week out point).

I am pretty sure if I ate a bunch of carbs for a few weeks, I would feel like superman. I am not willing to do that at this point though as I am still dropping sub-q abdominal fat. (which is the HARDEST part to get to happen). When I really get to that sharp point..... I will back off a little and pretty sure be a better rounded physique.

I snapped these last night. They are at the end of a day so I am holding a lot more water than I do first thing rising. I look a lot "sharper" first thing in the morning and 3-4lbs lighter.

First pic is totally relaxed and just exhaling. (Not even really flexing abs, just letting the air come out and skin fall away as you breathe out). Second pic is flexing. As I said....I am quite a bit sharper first thing in the morning...but this gives you an idea of my condition.

you can't have a lull... us lard asses look to you for motivation LOL

We all have the same struggle man. I am just at the point where the payoff is greater. It is the guys who are just starting that put the work in and dont yet look the part where the true dedication starts! We have ALL been there.

Oh, oh, oh.....I know......how about a bodybuilding show!!!!

I'm with ya man, got the serious burnout going on right now too...and I'm 10 days out.

I second the notion!
And Busta, you are killing it!

Thanks guys. It would do me good to get around some like minded guys...... Just dont see myself competing.....not at this point anyway. Love to catch a few workouts with you both you though!

It's the hormonal change brought about by the prolonged calorie deficit.


Perhaps cmoore will weigh in on this topic; he has a better handle than I on the psychological and physiological aspects of maintaining a lean condition for a long period of time.

IW....I am thinking this has a lot to do with it..... Hopefully if he is not practicing on the salmon ladder, he can give some insight. That guy really has walked the walk!

This.

Body will try everything to survive.

Dont think I am dying just yet! Not quite starving....but sure has felt like it at times

I fight the same fight, basically year round. Due to my excess skin and how stupid-easy I bloat up, I find myself cutting and cutting and cutting, and never getting quite there. I hit a wall, then bring my intake back up for a while, then try again..

I respect your struggle man. Hang in there!

Sounds like you need a bridge between the training that makes your body feel good, and the training that lights your fire.

Maybe some longer periodized program, at least a period of the lifting you like best would always be on the horizon. Could be shooting for that period even with a "bodybuilding" or "general strength" block.

You probably already do this though.

Hoping to find my way soon for sure! Thanks

I go through the same thing every time I diet. You'll push through it ID, but setting a new goal for yourself might be a good idea to give you something to work toward. What you've achieved is what a lot of people will only dream to attain. I've set some attainable goals for myself (500 dl, 450 squat, 365 bp) and I should hit them over the next couple years if I remain consistent. Those goals are the only things keeping me going, but I still have really tough days where I'm dragging myself into the gym kicking and screaming.

Any strength goal I have ever hit....always leaves me wanting more. From a pure strength goal.., a part of me wants to do one good national full power meet....but I am afraid what that might mean. My last comp I nailed a 420 bench and failed at 440. I KNEW 440 was too much, but my competitive side made me go for it. It took me almost a year to recover and truly I am not sure I have ever completely gotten back to where I was.

On deads, I think I could pull 700. That is a cool goal, BUT again, I understand what that kind of weight means. Even the best most trained lifters rupture muscles. That does scare me....but I am not sure how much I should worry. I pretty much stay the same strength year round. I dont rely on "compounds" to "peak" my strength. Maybe I am doing it wrong (or unwilling to take at the levels others do) but I honestly have never really seen a significant boost in strength from that. I know I might get flamed for saying that....but I havent.

Squats...well, I will admit. I am puss and dont get real excited about them. For a long time I could not even get my hip to cooperate enough to let me do them "right". I am a 550 squatter without any real work. Where could I hit...? I have no clue. But there is no real part of me that feels motivated to find out. I am happy to have gotten my ROM back and that I can tie my shoe on my bad leg. My accident really fuked up my leg/hip and I am happy just to be able live day to day without a lot of pain.

And....that is the thing. I have been figuring out that it is desire to be better and better that can sometimes cloud my judgement. Trying to add 50 or 75 lbs to my total....leaves my body a walking mess. Maybe I am a pussy, but I dont want to feel that way anymore. I live with a decent amount of pain on a day to day level as it is. (that has nothing to do with lifting). I never really realized how much more I was always limping and gimping around that was 100% self induced.

ID - you are at an advanced level, and although there are still a few knowledgeable peeps on here, you are asking a college level question in a kindergarten class. My only suggestion is go check out the Mountaindog site and read up on some of Meadow's philosophy on this very subject. Take what you want out of it, but my guess is you will at least learn a thing or two.

Thanks man.... I will check it out.

Good point. Only advanced bodybuilders could possibly have any sort of insight into the way people respond to different types of goals...

While I do appreciate all perspectives, I also know there are very few that understand what extended dieting while training at maximum levels feels like. Getting "big" and "strong" is easy. Riding the line of what it takes to stay bigger and leaner....which goes from a tight rope to a razor blade, takes lots of work AND acquired knowledge of how your body functions. Not many know what that is like. I dont think it unfair nor elitist to say that. But can see how some might be offended.

People go through this with their jobs, marriage and their lives in general. ... Oh, and that food thing is probably the real reason.

"Life" is great. I have a lovely lovely wife and two wonderful kids. I have a handful of REALLY REALLY good friends who I could count on to be there even when it is not easy. (even having one like that is a blessing). Working out is actually the least invasive it has ever been on my life. Just trying to find the balance of all things.

The comment there is no identifiable target in training for aesthetics is not totally correct. Weight training for aesthetics is a goal setting activity regardless if for personal reasons or for competition.
Changing ones physique can be just as motivating as a personal best in a lift. Maybe more if you are concerned about your appearance.

Since you have been doing more bodybuilding type training then it's show time in the future. It's something you may consider. With the muscle bellies you developed with the heavy training, you definitely have an advantage over the P90X guys following the lean-gain approach.

Jerry. MUCH MUCH respect. You sir are doing it right and always have my admiration. Your spreadsheet became my foundation of my map to macros which got me here. Thanks! I hope I can find the long term path as you have!

You have changed your training from where the results were mainly objective, to where they are mainly subjective. In addition to that, with the dieting messing around with your endocrines to probably a greater extent than normal (due to your medical history), you won't be perceiving things in quite the same way as before.

A more subjective arena + dieting (which changes your perceptions) + abnormal blood chemistry = confused and apathetic.

Yep....not a big subjective person. I like black and white. I like, I can lift it or I cant. This new phase of training is a tough adjustment.....BUT I am getting more support than EVER. Not only the forum (thank you) but in my personal life. People have been very nice in letting me know that from their perspective, I look the best I ever had. Without that support from gym buddies and loved ones, I am not sure I would have had the motivation to do this. Just being honest.



Thanks all for the ideas...... I am not sure what the answers are. I think food has a lot to do with it...as does the switching of goals from someone concrete to something totally subjective.

I truly appreciate all the thoughts. Thank you.

[DuracellBunny]

In all seriousness ID, I really would recommend having a chat with your doc. There are certain semi-predictable changes that people will go through during the process, but with your thyroid and brain injury (iirc), combined with the TRT, you are going to have abnormal blood chemistry even when compared to the "standard abnormal" of cutting.

[billb7581]

I hope you get it sorted out.

[chibito]

I just eat at maintenance at try to increase reps/weights.

Fuk extremme leaness.

Hunger? Depression? Low energy?

No thanks jeffrey.

[litljay]

Good post ID. Thought provoking for sure. I'm thinking as the rest above that the restricted calories are playing games with you.

Staying gym motivated is sometimes a struggle for me as well and I'll admit, I've missed waaaay more than 2 workouts the last 5 years. One of the programs I really enjoy though is PRRS or a variation of it. It tries to keep you in both camps of hypertrophy and strength.

[Kelgogi]

I don't really need to mention anything that has already been addressed (caloric deficits, change of training, etc).

But, from my perspective, it really sounds like (overall) your entire quality of life is much MUCH better than before despite your current lack of motivation. I don't know your particular history, but dealing with daily, chronic pain is never an easy thing. And the fact that the changes you've made recently have served to mitigate much of it is a very good thing. So, while lifting heavier and heavier weight seemed to be your predominant motivational factor, perhaps there is something else that can take its place. The trick is to find out what that can be of course without having to resort to your old mindset - the one that allowed you to lift really heavy weight, but also served to cause unnecessary injury. Like you said... balance is everything, and I think you're on the right track.

[Flounderbout]

I have a vague recollection that you had a helicopter ID? Is that right? If so, do you still have a helicopter?

Although I have not experienced it myself, I can well believe that there is a general vague level of dissatisfaction that comes from no longer having a helicopter. Maybe this is affecting your training/motivation.

Perhaps you should try buying another helicopter, and see if that fixes things.

[kimm4]

I really don't know what to say or add that might help. I've got 30 yrs in myself and occasionally lose my drive, motivation and hit walls. The constant need to work towards or hit some type of goal has definitely taken it's toll on me.

For once I just want to sit back enjoy life, enjoying lifting and not feel pressured into having a goal that I need to meet. It doesn't mean that I don't continue working hard, but it's nice to have fun and actually enjoy my hobby for a change.