Rational discussion: knowing the risks, why get married?

[Darknight8519]

So out of 53% of marriages, none of those people loved each other? Love isn't some magical state of being, it's a series of chemical reactions in the brain and can be changed and influenced by your experiences. Love doesn't objectively exist, it's created in the mind. Haven't you ever been in love before? And you aren't now? Well, that change of heart could have cost you hundreds of thousands and a ton of legal head ache

I'm pretty sure 99% of people have been in love at some point in their life (or at least thought they were, although there's no difference from thinking you're in love and actually being in love) and eventually grew to not love that person

Are you really going to bet your entire future on that never changing?

See brah those people only THOUGHT they were in love because if they were REALLY in love then they would not have gotten divorced. Torpstar711 knows what "real" love is where as all these people didn't. I bet his mommy told him he was special while he was growing up, better than all the other kids, and he got a trophy for always trying his hardest also.

[lalanaomi]

I see you didn't read my prior post. Respond to this:

Lets put it a better way. If you walk across this street there is a 50 percent chance you will be hit by a car (divorce) and there is a 75 percent chance the reason you are hit by the car is due to the fault of the driver (women initiate 75 percent of divorces) and when you are hit by this car you will lose half at LEAST half of all your assets to pay for your medical bills (alimony, attorney, court fees, child support etc). How do you feel about crossing this street? Are you going to cross it? Are you going to let these stats prevent you from crossing the street?

Now we wait to see if female logic can handle this.

I would say it's illogical to group marital statistics in with accident statistics. You can't equate all statistics with one another. That's both a generalization and a false analogy, otherwise known as logical fallacies, so I might advise you to check your reasoning.

If you insist on using this analogy, however, then let's make it work. Yeah, that's reasonable, but here's a major difference that you failed to take into consideration: in such accidents, you don't get to choose who hits you, but in terms of marriage, hopefully you'd have enough discernment to perceive someone with life goals similar to yours.

In the event that you don't - and even if you do - then yes, there's risk involved (which can happen if your partner is deceptive enough -- I'm not saying that accurate discernment is always in your control). Bearing your analogy in mind, I acknowledge that marriage will always be chancy (according to statistics), which I never refuted.

What I did refute, however, is the assertion that marriage should be disregarded entirely based solely on statistics. I'm not dismissing statistics as invalid; I'm simply saying that one's schema of marriage should involve more than just statistics.

BTW instead of responding to any argument lalanaomi makes the typical female move and negs and runs away. No surprise there bish.

^^Don't be so hasty.

[torpstar711]

I'm not generalizing all women at all brah. I am taking the nation wide stats. Now you want to start talking different percentages ok.

Lets say your risk of divorce with the "good girl" (whatever that is, have smashed married morman chicks with 3 kids so good luck finding a better good girl than that but whatever) is lower. Now you have a 25 percent risk of getting hit by a car crossing that street. You still crossing the street? I'm not.

Like I said before, I don't care what you do. But I just think it's funny how guys like you attribute your lack of a love life to you being cautious about all these evil women breaking your heart and stealing your money.

I've been with a few women who were pieces of chit sloots and even one who cheated on me, but those experiences led me to find a girl who loves me more than anything else and who wants nothing more than to have a family with me.

I know you're going to come back with a "you're a *******, your girl is a lying sloot and there's a 50% chance that if you marry she divorces you". You can't quantify these types of things, and unless you experience this for yourself (which is something 75% of the misc has absolutely no firsthand experience with), your assumptions count for chit.

[Drumbells]

See brah those people only THOUGHT they were in love because if they were REALLY in love then they would not have gotten divorced. Torpstar711 knows what "real" love is where as all these people didn't. I bet his mommy told him he was special while he was growing up, better than all the other kids, and he got a trophy for always trying his hardest also.

Yea I mean the statistics say it all, and the trend is less people are getting married every year

No need to get rustled over this, because in the end marriage is becoming obsolete and will undergo significant reformation within our lifetimes

End of the day this thread probably hasn't changed a single persons mind.. I mean maybe some of the lurkers. Honestly marriage should not be an issue the government accounts for, it should all be private and keep the law out of religion. Why would you want to bring the law, the government, paperwork, agreements, contracts etc into your relationship anyways? It's about love and that's not all very romantic

[chiseledmanbeef]

I would say it's illogical to group marital statistics in with accident statistics. You can't equate all statistics with one another. That's both a generalization and a false analogy, otherwise known as logical fallacies, so I might advise you to check your reasoning.

If you insist on using this analogy, however, then let's make it work. Yeah, that's reasonable, but here's a major difference that you failed to take into consideration: in such accidents, you don't get to choose who hits you, but in terms of marriage, hopefully you'd have enough discernment to perceive someone with life goals similar to yours.

In the event that you don't - and even if you do - then yes, there's risk involved (which can happen if your partner is deceptive enough -- I'm not saying that accurate discernment is always in your control). Bearing your analogy in mind, I acknowledge that marriage will always be chancy (according to statistics), which I never refuted.

What I did refute, however, is the assertion that marriage should be disregarded entirely based solely on statistics. I'm not dismissing statistics as invalid; I'm simply saying that one's schema of marriage should involve more than just statistics.

Marital statistics are a good representation of human behavior and how we interact with each other in this day and age. It can definitely help a person see that monogamy isn't what we are designed to do, and when we try, we are testing human nature.

The whole idea of love is just a fairytale anyway. We're all literally just fooling ourselves. I understand the need to not be alone, however entering into a legal contract in support of this doesn't make any sense

[Darknight8519]

I would say it's illogical to group marital statistics in with accident statistics. You can't equate all statistics with one another. That's both a generalization and a false analogy, otherwise known as logical fallacies, so I might advise you to check your reasoning.

If you insist on using this analogy, however, then let's make it work. Yeah, that's reasonable, but here's a major difference that you failed to take into consideration: in such accidents, you don't get to choose who hits you, but in terms of marriage, hopefully you'd have enough discernment to perceive someone with life goals similar to yours.

In the event that you don't - and even if you do - then yes, there's risk involved (which can happen if your partner is deceptive enough -- I'm not saying that accurate discernment is always in your control). Bearing your analogy in mind, I acknowledge that marriage will always be chancy (according to statistics), which I never refuted.

What I did refute, however, is the assertion that marriage should be disregarded entirely based solely on statistics. I'm not dismissing statistics as invalid; I'm simply saying that one's schema of marriage should involve more than just statistics.

I wasn't equating all statistics with one another. I was providing an example that is easy to grasp. So no it was not a generalization or false analogy it was a hypothetical example.

Correct you don't get to choose "who hits you". You can try to "choose" the "right person" all you like. I am sure everyone who was ever married thought they did that. My dad was married for 31 years, divorce. My Aunt was married for 22 years, divorced. Guess they weren't selective enough. That is the problem right, not being "selective" enough or "smart" enough, right?

Marriage isn't disregarded due to statistics. It is disregarded because for a man, if he gets it wrong, he is COMPLETELY FUKED over by the system where as the woman is not. Can you understand that? How about this.

How about I ask you to enter into a contract with me. Now at any time I can breach the contract, for whatever reason I want. In the event that I breach this contract I get half of your stuff, you have to pay me a certain amount (large amount) of money every month, and I get your kids and you see them every other weekend, oh and you pay me money for them too. Sound like a good contract to you? That is what a man is facing every time he gets married. Think about it.

[GothamCity10]

Canadian brahs who have been divorced, is their any advantage to getting married??. Do you still have to pay child support if custody is 50/50 do you pay alimony if she works anyways??. All seems so one sided to me, where is the financial benefit for the male?? looking at this from a pure financial standpoint seems like the worst investment ever.

[Darknight8519]

Like I said before, I don't care what you do. But I just think it's funny how guys like you attribute your lack of a love life to you being cautious about all these evil women breaking your heart and stealing your money.

I've been with a few women who were pieces of chit sloots and even one who cheated on me, but those experiences led me to find a girl who loves me more than anything else and who wants nothing more than to have a family with me.

I know you're going to come back with a "you're a *******, your girl is a lying sloot and there's a 50% chance that if you marry she divorces you". You can't quantify these types of things, and unless you experience this for yourself (which is something 75% of the misc has absolutely no firsthand experience with), your assumptions count for chit.

Who said anything about a lack of love life? Ive fuked many a women.

I am sure at age 22 you have it all figured out when it comes to selecting the right girl brah. I thought the same thing at that age.

So I can't comment on divorce unless I've been divorced myself? Guess you can't comment on anything unless you have personally experienced it right brah?

Again. Age. 22.

[jimmyjabbar]

Well then it's not "love", it's just passion or infatuation or something along the lines of that. If your gf is truly in love with you and is a normal, sensible girl with good morals (unlike the vast amount of sloots out there), then chances are money will not get in the way.

I dont usually get involved in the misc FA women bashing circle jerk, but damn this is just incredibly naive. Contrary to what the misc believes, I think women arent any better or worse than men. Women are just people bruh, and no matter what you think, the majority of people are POS's. 2 people living together for that long, side by side and expecting each other to always be there physically and emotionally...sooner or later, someone POSness is gonna shine through. Especially when chit hits the fan (money troubles, family problems, health issues...etc)

[Darknight8519]

Yea I mean the statistics say it all, and the trend is less people are getting married every year

No need to get rustled over this, because in the end marriage is becoming obsolete and will undergo significant reformation within our lifetimes

End of the day this thread probably hasn't changed a single persons mind.. I mean maybe some of the lurkers. Honestly marriage should not be an issue the government accounts for, it should all be private and keep the law out of religion. Why would you want to bring the law, the government, paperwork, agreements, contracts etc into your relationship anyways? It's about love and that's not all very romantic

You are right brah. It appears those who believe in marriage ITT are women and naive young men. They can have it.

[Darknight8519]

Canadian brahs who have been divorced, is their any advantage to getting married??. Do you still have to pay child support if custody is 50/50 do you pay alimony if she works anyways??. All seems so one sided to me, where is the financial benefit for the male?? looking at this from a pure financial standpoint seems like the worst investment ever.

It looks that way because it is.

[Drumbells]

You are right brah. It appears those who believe in marriage ITT are women and naive young men. They can have it.

Exactly, the truth in my opinion is there is no debate. There is absolutely no need to get married and a ton of risks. It provides no tangible benefit that you couldn't get without marriage

[lalanaomi]

I wasn't equating all statistics with one another. I was providing an example that is easy to grasp. So no it was not a generalization or false analogy it was a hypothetical example.

Correct you don't get to choose "who hits you". You can try to "choose" the "right person" all you like. I am sure everyone who was ever married thought they did that. My dad was married for 31 years, divorce. My Aunt was married for 22 years, divorced. Guess they weren't selective enough. That is the problem right, not being "selective" enough or "smart" enough, right?

Marriage isn't disregarded due to statistics. It is disregarded because for a man, if he gets it wrong, he is COMPLETELY FUKED over by the system where as the woman is not. Can you understand that? How about this.

How about I ask you to enter into a contract with me. Now at any time I can breach the contract, for whatever reason I want. In the event that I breach this contract I get half of your stuff, you have to pay me a certain amount (large amount) of money every month, and I get your kids and you see them every other weekend, oh and you pay me money for them too. Sound like a good contract to you? That is what a man is facing every time he gets married. Think about it.

Okay, thanks for the clarification. Sorry, you're right in that aspect: it's not not about not being "smart" or selective enough, but you have to acknowledge that one has more power a marriage choice than in an automobile accident. You clarified, though, so thank you.

You are right in that way. No, it doesn't sound like a good contract. I think the difference in our argument is this: I'm arguing for marriage on a broader scope (global, in general, in theory/concept), while you're arguing for it on a cultural, Western scope, a system in which the man is at a disadvantage. That's wrong and risky; I acknowledge that, and I never meant to refute it. I'm saying that marriage in general isn't inherently evil, all aside from the gender politics of the modern day marital contract that you are addressing.

So yes, I agree that the system isn't reliable in that way. I was speaking in general - historically, rather than with the unevenness of the modern day system. But that's society's fault, not marriage's.

I dont usually get involved in the misc FA women bashing circle jerk, but damn this is just incredibly naive. Contrary to what the misc believes, I think women arent any better or worse than men. Women are just people bruh, and no matter what you think, the majority of people are POS's. 2 people living together for that long, side by side and expecting each other to always be there physically and emotionally...sooner or later, someone POSness is gonna shine through. Especially when chit hits the fan (money troubles, family problems, health issues...etc)

This, also.

[JamesA1990]

Worst chit is that they make the man pay for the woman's court costs as well, that's just insult to injury. And you have to deal with:

alimony
child support
division of assets

Most likely the man loses his house too. This all on top of the average marriage costing 30k, the average woman controlling 80% of spending within a marriage even though men make more generally and most likely the woman getting majority custody of the children so she gets to tell them lies about their father 5-6 days a week if that's the kind of person she is

So you pay a ton to get married, pay for her while your married (usually she pays for you, out of your money though), then she wants a divorce (women initiate divorce 75% of the time) and not only do you have to pay her all the alimony and stuff, but you actually end up paying her to divorce you through financing her court costs! There are men stuck paying 4 figure amounts in monthly alimony for the rest of their entire lives right now. Men won't ever be able to retire because of these kinds of things

And that is why I don't plan to get married

This is exactly what happened / happening to my dad

never getting married crew

[Ethanolbrah]

ITT: degenerate hedonists.

Yes, don't get married. Don't have children. Let immigrants marry and have big families. Let them repopulate your countries. Good boys, good job.

[Mavex]

Once you guys grow out of the misc mentality, you'll at least consider getting married

[TEST0STERONE]

Some people legitly feel like they have found the one. Even if both people at the time think its going to work out its a chance they are willing to take. Yes, some people will do it out of greed or just to know they have someone who can provide for them but if you're going just by statistics then why do you even get in your car every morning?

Your odds of dying in a car crash, over the span of your entire life, are somewhere in between 1 and 50 and 1 and 100. When broken down on a per year basis, your odds of dying in a vehicle crash would somewhere in between 1 and 4,000 and 1 and 8,000. Currently, roughly 40,000 people per year die in car accidents in the United States.

That's life man. when it works out marriage can be a great thing. My parents have been happily married for over 30 years, perhaps all, or most, the people looking at marriage as a bad thing might see it that way because their own parents have separated? Idk. I do see where you're coming from, though. We live in an increasingly materialistic society so marriage, for some, might seem like an easy way to financial security.

[chiseledmanbeef]

ITT: degenerate hedonists.

Yes, don't get married. Don't have children. Let immigrants marry and have big families. Let them repopulate your countries. Good boys, good job.

Calls names, yet offers no good reason in support of said name calling. You believe in a god - 'nuff said. Also, I'm not going to give a fuk who populates my country when I'm gone. White people these days disappoint me greatly - can only imagine what they will be like in 50 years. Fuk everyone. The entire human race disappoints me

[Drumbells]

ITT: degenerate hedonists.

Yes, don't get married. Don't have children. Let immigrants marry and have big families. Let them repopulate your countries. Good boys, good job.

You don't need to get married to have kids, marriage doesn't guarantee a strong family. In fact statistically most married families break up

Is ruining your life worth it just for a couple more white kids running around? The population of the earth is 7 billion, hundreds of millions are white. I think we're gonna make it brah it would take centuries to breed out the white race so why don't you relax with that

And if you're planning to die before age 40 not like you're gonna be making much contribution anyways

[HotCheetos]

Every day the misc gets more depressing. You don't want to take that risk, then by all means don't, but when you want someone to be apart of your life forever you do everything you can to ensure that.

I pushed back marriage for 9 years with a girl I've loved. I've lived with her for 7 of those years, through some pretty damn tough times. We've made chit work when most would have walked away because we genuinely care about each other. I will be getting married to her this month.

The issue isn't the stats, the issue is people in general just give up too damn easily when the going gets tough. Pussification of America.

[aasbegin]

Analyze what type of person you are based on truth and bare facts, not upon society's or misc's standards of being alpha, proceed to find girl who will accept and adjust to the sort of person you are (no surprise here but it won't be a stripper or a pornstar or a celebrity or *fill in your fav female type*). Most marriages are based on guys selecting the girls who are exciting in short run but make life hell after the honeymoon phase when your real character and lifestyle emerges. Infact if you tell girls upfront that this is how you are, you don't have many friends for whatever reason but you're comfortable with it, they will accept you for who you are, key is to accept who you are and she will accept it too, and if she doesn't then she wasn't meant for you anyway.

[Drumbells]

Some people legitly feel like they have found the one. Even if both people at the time think its going to work out its a chance they are willing to take. Yes, some people will do it out of greed or just to know they have someone who can provide for them but if you're going just by statistics then why do you even get in your car every morning?



That's life man. when it works out marriage can be a great thing. My parents have been happily married for over 30 years, perhaps all, or most, the people looking at marriage as a bad thing might see it that way because their own parents have separated? Idk. I do see where you're coming from, though. We live in an increasingly materialistic society so marriage, for some, might seem like an easy way to financial security.

My parents have been married 25 years. Laws change, culture changes. The trends in marriage, are that it's occurring less and occurring later in life (for good reasons)

[JOXXX]

Never getting married crew.

Not entirely serious, but many people these days are getting married far too early. If you are in your twenties you should not even be thinking about getting married. You're going to probably change a lot during your twenties. This is why many people still call people in their twenties "kids".

[torpstar711]

Who said anything about a lack of love life? Ive fuked many a women.

I am sure at age 22 you have it all figured out when it comes to selecting the right girl brah. I thought the same thing at that age.

So I can't comment on divorce unless I've been divorced myself? Guess you can't comment on anything unless you have personally experienced it right brah?

Again. Age. 22.

No I'm not saying you can't comment on divorce because you haven't experienced it, I'm saying you can't comment on divorce because you're an FA virgin who can't even comprehend what it's like being in love. And yes I know you keep saying love doesn't equal marriage, but no one goes into a marriage thinking "I'm not in love with this girl, but I'll marry her for the fuk of it." Everyone goes into marriage thinking that they are at least partly in love with their future spouse, and therefore love has a DIRECT relation to divorce in general.

"I've fuked many a women." That sentence right there is proof that no you haven't. Please post just one picture of you with anything even resembling a woman.

I also like how the guy poking fun at how young I am is a 30 year old arguing with said 22 year old on a week night at 3:00am. Some life, go get some sleep before you have a heart attack grandpa.

Like I said before, all of your arguments were fallacies, and the fact that you were trying to incorporate the concept of statistics in something as complex as a marriage shows me two things:

1) You're dumb as chit.
2) You have no firsthand experience with love because someone who actually has experienced it can't even fathom looking at your relationship statistically.

[sklau96]

I'll only consider marrying a girl that doesn't believe in marriage, nomsayin? That's wifey material for sure

[torpstar711]

Every day the misc gets more depressing. You don't want to take that risk, then by all means don't, but when you want someone to be apart of your life forever you do everything you can to ensure that.

I pushed back marriage for 9 years with a girl I've loved. I've lived with her for 7 of those years, through some pretty damn tough times. We've made chit work when most would have walked away because we genuinely care about each other. I will be getting married to her this month.

The issue isn't the stats, the issue is people in general just give up too damn easily when the going gets tough. Pussification of America.

Finally someone normal. Congrats on the marriage decision

[Darknight8519]

Okay, thanks for the clarification. Sorry, you're right in that aspect: it's not not about not being "smart" or selective enough, but you have to acknowledge that one has more power a marriage choice than in an automobile accident. You clarified, though, so thank you.

You are right in that way. No, it doesn't sound like a good contract. I think the difference in our argument is this: I'm arguing for marriage on a broader scope (global, in general, in theory/concept), while you're arguing for it on a cultural, Western scope, a system in which the man is at a disadvantage. That's wrong and risky; I acknowledge that, and I never meant to refute it. I'm saying that marriage in general isn't inherently evil, all aside from the gender politics of the modern day marital contract that you are addressing.

So yes, I agree that the system isn't reliable in that way. I was speaking in general - historically, rather than with the unevenness of the modern day system. But that's society's fault, not marriage's.



This, also.

If you want to talk about the history of marriage then lets talk about what the purpose of marriage was historically. To build wealth be it through family fortunes or simply by having a father marrying off a daughter (who could not work) so that she is no longer an economic burden. The husband takes her on as an economic burden, she produces offspring who can work, which financially helps the husband and is an overall net positive economic outcome. Love had a minor role to play in all of this.

So would you like to return to the ear where love is a largely economic arrangement? Because that is what I am telling men. IF you are to get married do it for mainly economic reasons. Do you refute his?

[Drumbells]

Every day the misc gets more depressing. You don't want to take that risk, then by all means don't, but when you want someone to be apart of your life forever you do everything you can to ensure that.

I pushed back marriage for 9 years with a girl I've loved. I've lived with her for 7 of those years, through some pretty damn tough times. We've made chit work when most would have walked away because we genuinely care about each other. I will be getting married to her this month.

The issue isn't the stats, the issue is people in general just give up too damn easily when the going gets tough. Pussification of America.

I mean that's fine with me but you're also counting on a woman to not give up when the going gets tough, oh yeah and when she gives up she also gets a fully financed early retirement with usually no consequences

Marriage is not necessary, offers no benefit, and a very very steep risk. It's in fact life ruining for many men and a lot of divorced men commit suicide because of it

Go ahead if you want to but your not a pussy just because your against signing your potential future finance to a woman

And no one can ever be 100% sure that someone will feel the same way 20 years later as they do today. It's risky business

[Darknight8519]

No I'm not saying you can't comment on divorce because you haven't experienced it, I'm saying you can't comment on divorce because you're an FA virgin who can't even comprehend what it's like being in love. And yes I know you keep saying love doesn't equal marriage, but no one goes into a marriage thinking "I'm not in love with this girl, but I'll marry her for the fuk of it." Everyone goes into marriage thinking that they are at least partly in love with their future spouse, and therefore love has a DIRECT relation to divorce in general.

"I've fuked many a women." That sentence right there is proof that no you haven't. Please post just one picture of you with anything even resembling a woman.

I also like how the guy poking fun at how young I am is a 30 year old arguing with said 22 year old on a week night at 3:00am. Some life, go get some sleep before you have a heart attack grandpa.

Like I said before, all of your arguments were fallacies, and the fact that you were trying to incorporate the concept of statistics in something as complex as a marriage shows me two things:

1) You're dumb as chit.
2) You have no firsthand experience with love because someone who actually has experienced it can't even fathom looking at your relationship statistically.

Uh I have been in love before and I didn't get married because I decided to pursue a career instead. I don't regret that decision. I am far from a FA virgin as I've likely bedded more women from more diverse backgrounds (business owners, attorneys, bartenders, strippers, all different races, fuked on different continents etc). So try not to assume that simply because I see marriage as a bad investment for men it is only because I "can't get a woman anyway". I don't keep pictures of the women I bang. I don't keep pictures of the women I date. I don't have ******** or any other social media. If you think this therefore invalidates my claim that is up to you.

Young, single, relatively in shape men with no kids who are attorneys don't exactly have a tough time finding women who want to be with them. Now I wouldn't say get married "for the fuk of it". I would say look at the partner. 1) does she have equal or superior income making ability? 2) do you have similar ambitions and goals? be it career or family 3) do you generally enjoy each other's company 4) are you sexually attracted to each other and is the sex good?. These are the boxes that need checking. Now you check all those then I think you are in a far better position to get married than "Hurr Durr we in love lets get married cuz we will love each other forever".

Again I am not equating love with statistics. I am equating MARRIAGE with statistics. Reading Comprehension of peace.

[chiseledmanbeef]

Every day the misc gets more depressing. You don't want to take that risk, then by all means don't, but when you want someone to be apart of your life forever you do everything you can to ensure that.

I pushed back marriage for 9 years with a girl I've loved. I've lived with her for 7 of those years, through some pretty damn tough times. We've made chit work when most would have walked away because we genuinely care about each other. I will be getting married to her this month.

The issue isn't the stats, the issue is people in general just give up too damn easily when the going gets tough. Pussification of America.

Judging by your avi, I'd say the reason you two stay together is desperation and fear of change. You two literally just don't know any different