Need help losing fat/cutting

[Alyspaleo]

I've been struggling for years to lose fat/cut.

I've been on 1200, 1400,1500 and 1600 calorie diets. All food weighed and double checked by nutritionists.

I recently had a bad few months of gastroparesis, leaving me unable to eat some days, and only able to eat a maximum of 2 meals.

Despite not eating, and averaging 800 calories a day on the days I could eat or drink (lasted 5 months). I still lost no weight, in fact I gained a sizeable amount of edema and ascites.

I have had no problem gaining muscle. I have done bodybuilding for many years.

I'm 29 and female.

Any thoughts?

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Chronic low blood sugar
High insulin (hereditary)
Low testosterone
Low triglycerides
High estrogen
Low albumin
High globulins


Any other methods, supplements to improve lipolysis?

[benh2]

How have you not lost muscle on 800 calories? Height/weight?

Are you sure you've weighed food correctly...

[Alyspaleo]

I'm not sure how much muscle I lost during 800 calories a day for 5 month, I have too much edema and ascites to get an accurate picture at this time.

I'm 5'10 and currently weight between 230-255 daily on doctor's office scales depending on water weight.

Water weight makes my abdominal measurement change up to 11 inches in 24 hours.
And my leg and arm edema leaves pitting marks over 1cm deep up to 10 minutes.

My absolute bottom weight, for my lean body mass and essential body fat is 167 last assessed before medication weight gain, and water weight gain. Currently unknown.

Prior to my most recent weight gain (60 pounds in 4 months from medication known for rapid weight gain, with absolutely no change in diet and increased physical activity.).

During my 800 calorie average I was mostly consuming medical grade liquid meal replacement. So there is no chance for error in calories.

My regular scale for food goes to 0.01g, extremely accurate.

My last officially recorded maintenance level was 3188 calories a day. I am no where near that, I'm eating under my BMR (which last known was 2100).

So because calories don't seem to be making a difference, I'm looking at other way to improve lipolysis and fat loss.

I don't really need caloric deficit of bmr advice .

What sort of methods or supplements can help me with lipolysis and fat loss?

[Fulcodex]

Unless you're a different species and possibly from another planet, no way you're not losing weight when eating as little as you say you do. It's simply psysically impossible what you're saying.
But let's assume what you say about how much you eat is true, then you're way out of the help of anyone here on the forums and you should consult your docter

[Alyspaleo]

Some days I do feel like a different species. You think doctors can help? I've had blood sugar problems for 15 years, and no doctor has been able to help me because it's not typical, it's not normal, it doesn't fit in the box the majority of science.....

Doctors can not help me, changing my food does not make my blood sugar go up, ever.

So no, "simply physically impossible" is really atypical and rarely seen...... Doesn't make it impossible.

I know high estrogen blocks thyroid hormones from activating burning energy.

I know albumin carries fatty acids to be used for energy, so being low means less energy being usable.

I know high globulin means more hormones are, trapped, and not free to carry out bodily processes.

I know high insulin forces glucose into cells, becoming unusable for energy until lipolysis occurs.

I know my low blood sugar, and low triglycerides indicate there is very little energy in my blood available for body functions including metabolic rate, lower then most every one. I don't have a scientific study, or past gross medical research to tell me how to lose weight, because it's all targeted at metabolic-typicals.


SO - what sort of methods or supplements aid in lipolysis or fat loss?

[Znik]

There is no supplement that aids in fat loss, only a calorie deficit does that. There are no other way to lose fat, fat is stored energy and that stored energy has to be used for it to go away...

You say you got edema and ascites and I am going to assume a ton of water retention on top of that, so how do you know you are not losing weight/fat that's being masked by water ?

As for the medication and weight gain, I'd buy 10lbs of water retention maybe 20 tops, but 60lbs ... with no change in diet and increased physical activity ? No, not going to happen, you overate and by the rate of weight gain overate a lot.

So that means you are either incorrectly tracking, retaining a ton of water or subconsciously snacking/drinking. Medications tend to increase appetite thus you eat more without realizing/noticing it.

With your stats 5'10" @ 230-255 it's physically impossible not to lose weight at 800 kcal, your fat alone would require 300-500kcal to maintain itself and your lbm/ffm more than 800.

At any rate, you should get your medical issues and hormones sorted out and find out the cause of water retention etc. and how much it contributes along with trying different meds (if you are still on any) to see if there is some that causes less retention.

[BCAshock]

If you have not lost any weight on a caloric deficit like that than you must have a serious hormonal inbalance issues resulting in metabolic decline. Im scratching my head on this one, even with low blood sugar you should be loosing weight just fine with a caloric deficit like that.

800 cal might be be a little to low. lowering you calories that much can slow your metabolism even more. Try uping your calories to 1200 and increasing your cardio.

"medical grade liquid meal replacement.". screw that. Liquid meals are not ideal for wieght loss unless they are necessary for health conditions. try eating raw foods and drinking only water

[Alyspaleo]

Bcashock - yeah, the liquid diet was medically required. Gastroparesis is when the stomach is 'paralyzed' and food basically gets stuck in the stomach for hours/days longer then it should. I physically can not eat or drink at times once my stomach gets full. So definitely no snacking as someone suggested.
I developed a phytobezoar, so I do have to be careful about raw veggies. Treatment is pretty extreme, either a difibulator for the stomach or liquid nutrition either through the nose to small intestine/ direct port to small intestines. Now that I know what it is, I can manage it better when it occurs

I know my hyperinsulinemia hypoglycemia is a strong hormonal reason for a lack of fat loss because constant insulin hormonally inhibitors lipolysis. It's not food based insulin secretion, so I can't control it. (my blood sugar never goes above 100/5.5 after a meal). I'm hoping for rx diazoxide, but I thought there might be a supplement that could inhibit insulin secretion without hindering glucagon. But personally I'd prefer the doctors to remove a portion of my pancreas over medication. I don't have any insulin resistance. And this is why I have a consistent problem with fat loss/lipolysis.

I can assume I lost something, muscle most likely, during my trouble eating/800 calories time but with the edema I can't tell.

Znik - there are definitely some medications that cause rapid weight gain. I was on it from Jan 1 till midMay, so 60 pounds over 5 months (not edema). I will add the medication was inappropriately given to me, and the doctor inappropriately kept me on it even with me complaining of the weight gain. But like most people, the doctor assumed that the individual is inappropriately eating for their weight. But the reason for the large weight gain was the medication was contraindicated for people with hypoglycemia (which I have) and it made me hypothyroid. This specific medication is given to hyperthyroid patients to slow down their thyroid.

I did lose 5 pounds the first week I got off the medication, and about 10 more before my gastroparesis /800 calories average/edema last September till this March without changing my then diet and exercise at the time.

Definitely no snacking during the 800 calorie time, with my stomach 'paralyzed' and a phytobezoar development I was constantly nauseous and constantly felt too full to take a bite of food (even when it was more then 24 hours since the last time I ate).

I possibly lost some fat and some muscle, but my muscles are full of water, and edema+ ascites it's definitely difficult to say. I definitely have more medication weight gain left to lose.

Calorie deficit tends to not be very effective for me. Again, probably my insulin issues and estrogen dominance makes it more difficult (obviously not impossible, but definitely extremely more difficult to manage).

I will add there was a study done recently in a metabolic ward setting (they even assessed individuals bathroom waste),and they were able to prove (in obese) that some people lose body fat at a faster rate (read: less calorie deficit). Some people would burn a pound of fat at as low as only a 1600 calorie deficit. So some consideration that 3500 calorie deficit isn't a set in stone number.
Another study was able to show that a ketogenic diet was able to lose more weight at a higher caloric level (30%) then a low fat diet.

So physiologically speaking, there are ways to improve fat loss beyond just calories alone.
And this sort of supplement is what I was hoping someone to suggest.

So to be more specific :
Any supplement/drug beyond food to lower insulin secretion to improve my ability to not have lipolysis inhibited?

What ways should a women try to lower estrogen, as it can block metabolic processes that could improve lipolysis?

Is there anything else that could be making it more difficult for lipolysis could be - abnormally- blocking lipolysis based on my health/labs?


- I will add I do have nerve damage, my medications are to try to manage the viral-flu nerve damage that caused my new daily chronic migraines, possibly the gastroparesis and autonomic dysfunction.

-my abnormal insulin is a congenital issue. I was born with it, and it became worse after puberty

Doctors don't seem to be too helpful, especially my insulin/hypoglycemia. I get the feeling if something is a rare condition they try to run away from the diagnosis and treatment for the rare condition. Doctors try to use conventional treatment for a very common sorta similar condition and it just doesn't work. They are trained to not look for/avoid 'zebras'/rare conditions. The simplest answer is the most likely answer, but if it's not the answer, and none of those treatments work..... Especially with blood sugar, they assume the patient is non-compliant and they refuse to consider the rare answer. I keep running into the problem of doctors refusing to order the lab tests that would prove it's not a diet issue.

So while I'll keep trying to get doctors to help with my hormonal problems... I don't expect them to be helpful, or swift.

Sorry for rambling lol

[Mdenatale]

If what you say is true, 800 calories a day for 5 months and no weight loss, then you have something wrong that is way beyond the expertise of anyone on this forum. You need a doctor's assistance, an endocrinologist probably.


Now here's my opinion on the reality of the situation. What you are saying really makes no sense. You realize 800 calories for a 230lb person is almost nothing. You say that calorie deficit tends to not be effective for you. That simply isn't true, it is effective for every animal (or at least mammals) on the planet. You are all but implying that you can live on air. Just stop eating all together then. I will bet that you are actually consuming in excess of 2000 calories per day on average. Maybe 800 one day, but it is made up some where else. That is the only thing that can explain why you are maintaining a body weight of over 230lbs

[Znik]

There are medications that can cause water retention (and quite a lot of it), increased appetite, slightly decreased RMR and lethargy or as you say cause hypothyroidism but the actual impacts on your BMR/RMR is fairly small.

For instance Hypothyroidism is considered one of the biggest weight gaining condition, but all the research I've seen on it concludes with a maximum reduction in RMR of 400kcal/daily and even that is rare, more commonly its 0-200kcal and in pretty much all cases appetite down regulates to the new BMR and the weight gain is water (apart from those that overeat and gains tons of fat and then blames thyroid).

Gaining fat requires a calorie surplus, you cannot gain fat if there is no excess energy to store.

Do you have the link to that study ? Pretty much all the studies I've seen that speculate on variations in deficit vs weight loss is poorly done, has bad mechanics for measuring and tracking bodyfat percentage, bad calorie control, bad NEAT control/compensation, poorly done in terms of length, glycogen loss, water loss, water retention etc etc etc.

In terms of Keto VS high fat VS moderate of everything VS any type of diet you can think of, every single meta-study and mass review shows the exactly same thing: It doesn't matter over time as they all even out when you compare the actual calorie deficit. Keto causes rapid initial losses (water/glycogen) and then slows down, a normal approach has a slower water/glycogen loss, weird diets can cause either mass water retention or flushing/glycogen loss etc. but after a few months they all balance out to the expected loss on that calorie deficit.


Now as for your weight loss, there are way too many medical issues there for me to give any concrete advice as that is far away from my field of knowledge and I don't want to give any advice that could cause worsening of X issue/condition.

The only thing I can say is that if you are in a calorie deficit over time you will lose weight, it's impossible not to. Even if breakdown of fat was 100% blocked that would just lead to a massive muscle loss which since it contains mostly water would cause a mass water loss as well. Our organs,brain, fat mass, lbm, movement etc. all requires X energy and is not affect that much by any conditions (thus BMR calculations tends to be within +/-5% of estimations).

If that energy requirement is not met through intake it has to come from your body (either fat or lbm) or you would die. 5'10" @ 245 you would have a BMR of approx 1900 lets be generous and say -10% due to the conditions.
That leaves a BMR of 1710kcal which is the absolute minimum amount of energy your body would require to sustain itself in a total sedentary state. Hence why it would be impossible not to lose some sort of mass at 800kcal either fat or lbm both would eventually cause a weight loss (a massive loss if it was muscle).

The absolute lowest TEE (Total Energy Expenditure) is 1600, this was from a 52 year old 153lbs 5'3" female with hypothyroidism,3 types of psychiatric medications etc. who most likely was not every active at all.
Hence why it's extremely unlikely you cannot lose weight with your stats at 800-1600kcal if you are able to exercise etc.

Which is why something does not seem right, you are obviously getting the energy your body needs to sustain itself from somewhere either subconsciously or something you are not tracking properly.

It's pretty common for there to be a massive discrepancy between self-reported intake and actual intake:


^ there is a gazillion studies that shows the exact same thing.

[Mdenatale]

Yep, and all goes quiet when they find out being overweight is caused by eating too much, lol.

[Waingrow]

Hope you get the issues sorted out. Must be rough =/