Done 5/3/1 for 5 months - weaker in everything.

[Alephz]

Hi guys, I'm looking for some advice because my 5/3/1 progress has really demotivated me.

Weight: 86.4kg (190lb)

End of 2014 stats:
Squat: 180kg x 5 (395lb)
Benchpress: 122.5kg x 5 (270lb)
Deadlift: 225kg x 5 (495lb)

Now:
Squat: 160kg x 5 (352.5lb)
Benchpress: 110kg x 5 (242.5lb)
Deadlift: 215kg x 5 (475lb)

The only factor which has impacted my training has been that because of work commitments, I've had about 1.5 months off in this 5 month period.

But the bottom line is, I've become significantly weaker in this duration. I think this is the weakest I've been in a year.

The whole reason I started 5/3/1 was because I read that it's a more advanced program compared to Madcows (the program I was stalling on previously). I'm almost tempted to start Madcows again just because I've lost so much strength.

What's happened here guys? I wanted a more advanced powerlifting program so I could continue making progress.

Thank you

[Turtora]

Yeah I had this problem

[pntbll687]

Hi guys, I'm looking for some advice because my 5/3/1 progress has really demotivated me.

Weight: 86.4kg (190lb)

End of 2014 stats:
Squat: 180kg x 5 (395lb)
Benchpress: 122.5kg x 5 (270lb)
Deadlift: 225kg x 5 (495lb)

Now:
Squat: 160kg x 5 (352.5lb)
Benchpress: 110kg x 5 (242.5lb)
Deadlift: 215kg x 5 (475lb)

The only factor which has impacted my training has been that because of work commitments, I've had about 1.5 months off in this 5 month period.

But the bottom line is, I've become significantly weaker in this duration. I think this is the weakest I've been in a year.

The whole reason I started 5/3/1 was because I read that it's a more advanced program compared to Madcows (the program I was stalling on previously). I'm almost tempted to start Madcows again just because I've lost so much strength.

What's happened here guys? I wanted a more advanced powerlifting program so I could continue making progress.

Thank you

What did you weigh when you hit the numbers the second time?
And the time off will hurt strength gains significantly. Just to put it in perspective you took about 30% of the 5 months off. No one is gonna make good gains that way.

Did you keep track of or hit any rep pr's?
Did you hit the minimum reps every day?

[kaleida]

1.5 months off from work or 1.5 months off from training?

I haven't tried 5/3/1 yet but 1.5 months off from training would probably set me back a lot on any program.

[Alephz]

What did you weigh when you hit the numbers the second time?
And the time off will hurt strength gains significantly. Just to put it in perspective you took about 30% of the 5 months off. No one is gonna make good gains that way.

Did you keep track of or hit any rep pr's?
Did you hit the minimum reps every day?

Admittedly, I lost a lot of weight from my work trips, at my peak I probably weighed about ~90kg.

I didn't hit any rep prs but I did make reps every day until my last business trip (fortunately, I have no more trips for the rest of the year).

So I accept that a lot of factors have gone against me making gains. But I was sold on this idea that 5/3/1 doesn't need to have do many lifts >90% because the volume and intensity balances it out. But it seems I didn't get strong, nor maintain. Instead I lost about 10% off each lift.

Now I read that a lot of literature doesn't even recommend 5/3/1 for strength training or powerlifting. So it's all very melancholic right now.

1.5 months off from work or 1.5 months off from training?

I haven't tried 5/3/1 yet but 1.5 months off from training would probably set me back a lot on any program.

1.5 off training because of work.

But, that still leaves about 3.5 months of solid 5/3/1 training (about 4 cycles). And that 1.5 months off was in two chunks. Not one long period. Before my last business trip (2 weeks ago) I squatted 165kg for 5 which was still nothing compared to what I used to be able to squat.

[Anthony21]

Sounds like you had life affect your training and gains, simple as that.

Plus 4 cycles isn't that long on 5/3/1 honestly as the progression is pretty slow. If you're only hitting the minimum required reps and not hitting anything for your plus sets you're doing something wrong.

[Rags85]

I think 5/3/1 is too low volume on the main lifts. You have to be very consistent on the accessories. The BBB could be good I suppose, but who wants to do 5x10 @50% after doing the 5/3/1.

If you only do the main lifts, then yeah, its no surprise you lost strength.

[Alephz]

Sounds like you had life affect your training and gains, simple as that.

I agree, I'm just having concerns that 5/3/1 is a pretty sub optimal program for strength because of just how much weaker I am now.

Plus 4 cycles isn't that long on 5/3/1 honestly as the progression is pretty slow. If you're only hitting the minimum required reps and not hitting anything for your plus sets you're doing something wrong.

I think 5/3/1 is too low volume on the main lifts. You have to be very consistent on the accessories. The BBB could be good I suppose, but who wants to do 5x10 @50% after doing the 5/3/1.

If you only do the main lifts, then yeah, its no surprise you lost strength.

Maybe I wasn't clear. I rarely managed to hit the +reps (i.e, 7 reps instead of 5) but I always did the supplementary exercises as well (BBB).

I mean sure, when I started 5/3/1, I was absolutely blasting the first 2 cycles - then I had a business trip for two weeks, came back, couldn't really blast the sets anymore but kept going anyway, had a month long business trip, can barely hit the prescribed reps now (these last two weeks I've just been trying to match what I used to do in the last cycle, not keep doing the program). So essentially, I have made negative strength gains over the last 5 months.

[Anthony21]

2 weeks off then 1 month off. This is going to ultimately have an affect on your training.

I would look into adding more volume to your main lifts. There are many ways to run 5/3/1 so I would take a look at adding in more volume and frequency. I'm not sure what set up you're doing now but is worth a thought.

[KillerB84]

Were you deloading every 4th week?

[Alephz]

2 weeks off then 1 month off. This is going to ultimately have an affect on your training.

I would look into adding more volume to your main lifts. There are many ways to run 5/3/1 so I would take a look at adding in more volume and frequency. I'm not sure what set up you're doing now but is worth a thought.

I saw this variation of 5/3/1 for powerlifting:


from here: http://www.powerliftingtowin.com/beyond-531/

Seemed pretty neat. Either that or I might try Candito or Madcows. Candito is a bit tricky since the first two weeks need 5 days at the gym...

[Dogmai]

I agree, I'm just having concerns that 5/3/1 is a pretty sub optimal program for strength because of just how much weaker I am now.





Maybe I wasn't clear. I rarely managed to hit the +reps (i.e, 7 reps instead of 5) but I always did the supplementary exercises as well (BBB).

I mean sure, when I started 5/3/1, I was absolutely blasting the first 2 cycles - then I had a business trip for two weeks, came back, couldn't really blast the sets anymore but kept going anyway, had a month long business trip, can barely hit the prescribed reps now (these last two weeks I've just been trying to match what I used to do in the last cycle, not keep doing the program). So essentially, I have made negative strength gains over the last 5 months.

You posted this on reddit and a bot deleted it but I'm glad you posted it here too so I can respond. If you're getting weaker while doing 5/3/1 then the problem isn't the program, it's you, you took 2 weeks then a month off and your strength regressed.

The program is good, it works, you just have to train consistently. Sure in its basic form it is less than optimal for good powerlifting gains but if done correctly you would still be making some sort of minor strength progression. You can do all sorts of things to increase the overall volume and intensity of the program and the frequency of the lifts.

[Alephz]

You posted this on reddit but a bot deleleted it but I'm glad you posted it here too so I can respond. If you're getting weaker while doing 5/3/1 then the problem isn't the program, it's you, you took 2 weeks then a month off and your strength regressed.

The program is good, it works, you just have to train consistently. Sure in its basic form it is less than optimal for good powerlifting gains but if done correctly you would still be making some sort of minor strength progression. You can do all sorts of things to increase the overall volume and intensity of the program and the frequency of the lifts.

Damn bot - I wanted more opinions. Oh well.

My training is fortunately going to be a lot more consistent now - so we'll see what happens. Thanks for the response.

[Anthony21]

I saw this variation of 5/3/1 for powerlifting:


from here: http://www.powerliftingtowin.com/beyond-531/

Seemed pretty neat. Either that or I might try Candito or Madcows. Candito is a bit tricky since the first two weeks need 5 days at the gym...

Izzy's approach is solid if you continue with 5/3/1.

Candito's 6 week strength program is great. I ran it for 7 cycles straight, consistently

I will say you need to tweak the bench volume though as I experieneced little to no bench progress. My squat and deadlift blew up though.

[Alephz]

Izzy's approach is solid if you continue with 5/3/1.

Candito's 6 week strength program is great. I ran it for 7 cycles straight, consistently

I will say you need to tweak the bench volume though as I experieneced little to no bench progress. My squat and deadlift blew up though.

In the first couple of weeks of Candito, there's bench 3 times a week. I was thinking of condensing that into twice a week but upping the volume a little. Maybe making it fall in line more with how the other lifts are treated.

Thanks for the advice :3

[Anthony21]

In the first couple of weeks of Candito, there's bench 3 times a week. I was thinking of condensing that into twice a week but upping the volume a little. Maybe making it fall in line more with how the other lifts are treated.

Thanks for the advice :3

Whatever you do you're going to want to add more volume. You can keep the bench as is and add a secondary bench movement to the mix as well i.e. close grip bench, pause bench, 2-3s pause benching, pin presses, floor presses, sling shot work, etc.

[martin_mathers]

Forgot to take your creatine brah.

[wrestler271]

My buddy is in the same boat as you, work commitments caused him to have to put PL to the side. Seems the strength loss just came from the time off and having to focus more on work than working out (which isnt necessarily a bad thing lol). Also I don't like the volume of 5/3/1, especially if you have lost weight or on a cut. It is already slow progression in the first place, so just the smallest negative factor can hinder it. I would definitely say that you should go to Madcows or another program and put 5/3/1 to the side.

Edit: Or you can get your whole work thing situated, stick to 5/3/1 and just add more volume to it, whether its more assistance work or more sets to the main lifts

[NorthStrong]

I feel that some "first set last" work is pretty much necessary for 5/3/1 to work best. I'm doing it right now and having very good success with it. You need to keep in mind on how to get yourself ready for a test day as well, you wouldn't do it after a high volume cycle with BBB or something, it'd make more sense for you to do a cycle or 2 without pushing the main set so hard, and doing a few jokers after, then maybe some SSL instead of FSL, etc. I think its a good idea to run cycles with a certain intent as far as how they fit in your overall training, like blocks kinda.

[NeverDeload]

You took 1.5 months off from training and other variables. You can't blame the program I'm afraid. I still say go back to the program that got you your best numbers in the first place.

[salty-vtr]

What I'm going to say might be a little controversial but,

I've been running 531 and doing 3 or 4 heavy sets at 5+ 3+ etc and I honestly think it is working wonders. Like was previously mentioned the program lacks volume and doing 1 heavy set just wasn't doing it for me!

Give it a try!

[sperez21]

I love 5/3/1, almost swear by it. If you haven't gotten Jim Wendler's book yet, please do purchase it if you are deciding to run a 5/3/1 variant. The program runs off a lot of auto-regulation, and without a certain amount of effort put into making it exactly what YOU need, it can be a little lack luster. first set last, AMRAP, and mass amounts of volume absolutely make up for the fact the working sets don't have the volume one may be looking for. Joker sets and rep PRs also are part of helping with the lack of volume. assistance too obviously, but it really just boils down to what you need and how well you are aware of what you need. 5/3/1 works if you work, good luck with it!

[Zarthon]

Izzy's approach is solid if you continue with 5/3/1.

Candito's 6 week strength program is great. I ran it for 7 cycles straight, consistently

I will say you need to tweak the bench volume though as I experieneced little to no bench progress. My squat and deadlift blew up though.

Agreed on the 5/3/1 bench volume. I was merely spinning my wheels on bench with 5/3/1 while squats and deadlift both did well. I've gone to 3/5/1 and do added bench on OHP days (plus added squats on deadlift days). The extra volume definitely helps bench.