BCAAs and fasted training. Why the parroting?

[BULLED]

It seems that lately it has become fashionable to say that BCAAs are needed when training fasted. Everyone's parroting this in every BCAAs thread. It has become a cliche, something like "no need to load creatine", "timing doesn't matter"... y'all know.

Can someone give me one scrap of evidence to back that up? Is there a study confirming that? Or it's based on urban legends? Do you really think that a scoop of BCAAs will make a difference in performance, body composition, or whatever, assuming the subject is getting enough protein and is hitting his macros?

Just wondering...

[BlueRev]

YOu don't have to. But that's practially the only time they're useful.
I don't see a point otherwise.

If you hit your daily BCAA's from food, Techinally you don't need extra.. Fasted or not.

[OT2000]

Going to enjoy this thread lol

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/m/pubmed/21297567/

This may explain why when I take BCAA's fasted, I seem to have better endurance. Keep in mind, my diet is low to mod carb.

[cr357]

I seem to have better endurance.

Just a question but what exactly does that mean? If someone switched out your BCAAs without you knowing I bet you would say the same thing. Average weightlifting isn't truly a test of endurance, it's not even an endurance activity. Not saying you're wrong but I always wonder what "I seem to have better endurance" means because it's said A LOT.

[BULLED]

YOu don't have to. But that's practially the only time they're useful.
I don't see a point otherwise.

If you hit your daily BCAA's from food, Techinally you don't need extra.. Fasted or not.

I know. I just wondered why everyone repeat that. And what catches my attention is they say "BCAAs are needed only if you train fasted". Needed? Really?

Going to enjoy this thread lol

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/m/pubmed/21297567/

This may explain why when I take BCAA's fasted, I seem to have better endurance. Keep in mind, my diet is low to mod carb.

I'll read it when I have some time. Thanks.

[OT2000]

Just a question but what exactly does that mean? If someone switched out your BCAAs without you knowing I bet you would say the same thing. Average weightlifting isn't truly a test of endurance, it's not even an endurance activity. Not saying you're wrong but I always wonder what "I seem to have better endurance" means because it's said A LOT.

Endurance reference is in regards to my routine. I am lifting for an hour or more and then cardio for 30-45 min it can take its toll. Immediate energy is easy to expend, long term endurance is another thing. I have tried just BCAA's, BCAA's with PWO, no BCAA's, etc etc and found that using BCAA's with select PWO had been what works for me.

However this is only in reference to working out when I first wake and fasted. When I work out in the evening a couple of days, I have never felt a difference. Keep in mind again what my typical diet is and how BCAA's work.

[eatyourspinach]

The leangains protocol has been around for a long time http://www.leangains.com/2010/05/ear...-training.html

[Terrimonas]

Going to enjoy this thread lol

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/m/pubmed/21297567/

This may explain why when I take BCAA's fasted, I seem to have better endurance. Keep in mind, my diet is low to mod carb.

Did you read the full text? That study does not specify at what point during the day that the BCAA supplement was taken. The full text it states "adherance to supplementation protocol was verified through personal communication on a daily basis." and "they remained fasted until the experiment [exhaustive exercise tests] the next morning." So they more than likely did not consume prior to the testing.

[OT2000]

Did you read the full text? That study does not specify at what point during the BCAA supplement was taken. Based upon the info in the full text it states "adherance to supplementation protocol was verified through personal communication on a daily basis." So they more than likely did not consume prior to the testing.

My point wasn't made on the actual study. It was made to possibly explain why I find they benefit me when I train fasted.

[Terrimonas]

My point wasn't made on the actual study. It was made to possibly explain why I find they benefit me when I train fasted.

What was the point of posting the study since it does not support taking BCAAs pre workout nor your n=1 experience? You could take the BCAAs any time of day based upon the study. Don't fuking pubmed ninja me.

[djwolford]

3-5g/day, no need to load BCAAs, timing doesn't matter.

[VO2Maxima]

I don't think "parroting" is necessarily a bad thing, providing you're repeating information learned from a reliable source. If I were to repeat something I learned in one of my physiology classes, does that count as parroting? How about if I were to repeat the results of a study that I read? Obviously it's not parroting if I had performed the study and drawn the conclusion myself, but if those were the only people allowed to give out information, not many people would be talking.

Here's some interesting (but old, as studies go) reading on BCAAs and fasted training: http://ajpendo.physiology.org/content/287/1/E1.full

This one is also fasted (also old): http://ajpendo.physiology.org/content/276/4/E628

Newer, but little details given: http://www.jissn.com/content/pdf/1550-2783-6-S1-P1.pdf

Some reading (but also old) on the between meals bolus: http://ajpendo.physiology.org/content/286/3/E321.long

And to answer your other post: needed? Of course not. Helpful? Sure. The catch is either finding BCAAs on sale for practically the price of Crystal Light, or finding an EAA with bonuses that you'd want anyway. For example: I can get a 10-pack of Crystal Light packets for $2.50, so $0.25/serving. When ErgoChain goes on BOGO, it's $0.33/serving, so that's really not that bad. Alternately, with something like Purple Wraath or Amino IV, it has other stuff that I want in there too, so that makes it worth it for me.

[OT2000]

What was the point of posting the study since it does not support taking BCAAs pre workout nor your n=1 experience? You could take the BCAAs any time of day based upon the study.

You missed the point of my typical diet. I never said it makes sense for the average person with the diet they have. It may not. This study was posted to reference what may be why I benefit from them.

[AMeyer9]

YOu don't have to. But that's practially the only time they're useful.
I don't see a point otherwise.

If you hit your daily BCAA's from food, Techinally you don't need extra.. Fasted or not.

I could be wrong, but I swear I've seen something about taking them with meals is actually more ideal.

[Team Punishment]

I'm just here to say bolus.

[JTR1987]

I'm also on a low carb diet currently, and take two scoops of Xtend or Intrabolic during my workout days. I train fasted about half the time, just depends how I feel that day. I've noticed my recovery has improved two-fold. I went from working out 3 days a week to 5-6 days per week. This is just what's worked for me. Everyone is different, and I don't use creatine outside of what's in my pre-workout.

I like to think of it as a Gatorade is 99 cents, and a scoop of Xtend is 55 cents.

[djwolford]

I like to think of it as a Gatorade is 99 cents, and a scoop of Xtend is 55 cents.

This is basically my opinion on the matter. They're basically like a Gatorade, only a lot cheaper if you bargain shop. I replace soft drinks with BCAA powder, comes out cheaper and cuts out... well awful sodas.

[MareeWanna]

I forgot to take BCAA's before cardio yesterday and I lost an inch on my biceps.

[lowewhut]

I like to think of it as a Gatorade is 99 cents, and a scoop of Xtend is 55 cents.

Not a valid comparison. Powder vs pre-made (Gatorade). You can pick up a big tub of Gatorade powder at Costco or Sam's Club for around 10 bucks.

[djwolford]

Not a valid comparison. Powder vs pre-made (Gatorade). You can pick up a big tub of Gatorade powder at Costco or Sam's Club for around 10 bucks.

But who actually does that? I mean we buy that at work in the Summer for the guys in the shop, but I'm talking individuals...

[DamonX]

I don't believe they are absolutely needed if training fasted. Beneficial? to an extent.

For someone in a caloric deficit, training fasted, bcaa's could help with muscle preservation, as it's known that leucine is muscle sparing. But a protein shake could do the same. That's just my opinion.

[BULLED]

I don't think "parroting" is necessarily a bad thing, providing you're repeating information learned from a reliable source. If I were to repeat something I learned in one of my physiology classes, does that count as parroting? How about if I were to repeat the results of a study that I read? Obviously it's not parroting if I had performed the study and drawn the conclusion myself, but if those were the only people allowed to give out information, not many people would be talking.

Here's some interesting (but old, as studies go) reading on BCAAs and fasted training: http://ajpendo.physiology.org/content/287/1/E1.full

This one is also fasted (also old): http://ajpendo.physiology.org/content/276/4/E628

Newer, but little details given: http://www.jissn.com/content/pdf/1550-2783-6-S1-P1.pdf

Some reading (but also old) on the between meals bolus: http://ajpendo.physiology.org/content/286/3/E321.long

And to answer your other post: needed? Of course not. Helpful? Sure. The catch is either finding BCAAs on sale for practically the price of Crystal Light, or finding an EAA with bonuses that you'd want anyway. For example: I can get a 10-pack of Crystal Light packets for $2.50, so $0.25/serving. When ErgoChain goes on BOGO, it's $0.33/serving, so that's really not that bad. Alternately, with something like Purple Wraath or Amino IV, it has other stuff that I want in there too, so that makes it worth it for me.

Okay, replace "parroting" with "repeating" or any word to your liking. But speaking of words, the word that led me to make this thread is needed, yep, it's exactly the word used even by (supposedly) knowledgeable users. "BCAA are only needed if you are training fasted", I've seen that in a lot of threads. That's nothing but misinform. Helpful? Not so sure about that, but it is a far more appropriate word.

[BULLED]

I'm just here to say bolus.

Lol. I already knew your opinion on the matter. Not too different from mine...

[AJP1]

Are they needed? Nope.
The benefits of using them can be improving exercise performance and reducing muscle breakdown.
Do I drink them? Yes.

[cumminslifter]

well since there have been numerous studies showing that training in the fed state is superior to fasted training I can see why they would be beneficial. They stimulate MPS and congested with carbs would prevent MPB. Having a meal would be better, but many people do not train well after consuming a meal, or do not have time to eat something in the morning.

[TheFugitive]

I remember when all the cool kids sipped on BCAA's all day long

I sip on them pretty much all day fasted or not

[BULLED]

That's perfectly fine. One can use BCAAs to flavor his water, because of placebo effect, or actual effect (who knows), 'cause he has got it for free, to make up for the lack of protein intake (although not the best), but if you say to a n00b that he needs BCAAs before fasted training (as many people do in all these BCAA threads) all you do is misinform. That's my point basically.

[ERGOGENIX]

I remember when all the cool kids sipped on BCAA's all day long

I sip on them pretty much all day fasted or not

So do I.

We're always testing new flavors, so I probably get 15g or more each day.

[AMeyer9]

Pretty much what I use them for. Flavoring water. But I don't have anymore (that are worth drinking). I cried a little when I dumped my last scoop of Orange Mango Amino Recovery in my shaker.

[demonwareltd]

It's easy to sip on BCAAs all day when you get them at no cost. Most of the people on here have to shell out hard earned bucks for a supplement and I'd wanna be damn sure it's at least worth it, not on the off chance that something good may come of it.