$15 minimum wage reality

[Chasthetics]

That is the image I have in my head whenever I think of the stereotypical anti-poor, anti-minimum wage, ultra-negative, sociopathic Miscer.

Lol have you ever even taken an economics course? I ask because if that were actually the case then you would be able to grasp that disliking minimum wage has more merit behind it than just hating the poor and wanting other people to fail.

[Xzorroth]

Nobody said that I like or agree with government subsidizing specific firms lol. I hate that chit even more than you do because it creates artificial monopolies. The point still stands though that price floors screw up labor markets under near perfect competition, and that without government practices that promote special interests all industries would be far closer to perfect competition than as is currently. Minimum wage only helps efficiency in markets that are monopoly-esque.

The only thing that screws it up is the fact that a company with more money can afford to do everything cheaper, including exporting labor.
So imo, the best way to fix that is raise the price on importing items under certain circumstances, specifically in vertically integrated companies, or even forcing them to uphold minimum wage of some sort for foreign investments.

[Xzorroth]

Lol have you ever even taken an economics course? I ask because if that were actually the case then you would be able to grasp that disliking minimum wage has more merit behind it than just hating the poor and wanting other people to fail.

your course was taught by a capitalist, congratulations on being assimilated with his hegemonic viewpoints to your own disadvantage.

My micro course was taught by one last semester.
Suffice to say, I got a C+ for having controversial view points, despite doing all the homework and getting ~85 on our 3 tests.

[NotANun21]

1. Brain drain. The brightest and best go to countries where there isn't such stupid law.
2. Companies find creative ways around it. Legal ways to have consultants, not employees, or they have operations elsewhere that they can attract staff.

At minimum. Please think.

But imagine that couldn't happen. No work around no matter how many lawyers you have, and no ability to leave the country - the law was implemented in every country

Hypothetically, what wage would the bottom of the barrel make?

[Chasthetics]

The only thing that screws it up is the fact that a company with more money can afford to do everything cheaper, including exporting labor.
So imo, the best way to fix that is raise the price on importing items under certain circumstances, specifically in vertically integrated companies, or even forcing them to uphold minimum wage of some sort for foreign investments.

What's wrong with exporting labor if the terms to that overseas labor is consensual? Inb4 those are abusive relationships and corporations providing jobs in developing countries is bad. Also, I think you're bullchitting your knowledge at this point because that entire post really wasn't related at all to minimum wage or how it affects things in different situations.

[Xzorroth]

Automation has nothing to do with minimum wage, you fking pleb.

It's part of the evolving infrastructure in general. More and more jobs are going to be automated and more and more people will be unemployed. Soon enough, the government will have to provide assistance for many more people. I envision a future where government provides income to people for nothing because of ethics. Nobody will be on the streets, so the next best thing is giving people free money. Where will the money be coming from? Probably from people who still have jobs.

The post in the OP is just reality. It's not directly correlated at all to increasing wages LOL.

Automation is a funny thing... 100 years ago people thought they would work less hours and wages would stagnate or even increase because profitability of companies would increase.
What actually happened was it allowed employers to call the new jobs "Low Skill", paid them less, and pocketing more for themselves.

Of course this was after minimizing unionization and taking power from workers.

[pantiespending]

But how are high school dropouts supposed to afford jordans and iphones without $15 an hour minimum wage????? Check mate!

LOL


minimum wage of 15 is a joke imo prolly should develop life skills.

[Xzorroth]

What's wrong with exporting labor if the terms to that overseas labor is consensual? Inb4 those are abusive relationships and corporations providing jobs in developing countries is bad. Also, I think you're bullchitting your knowledge at this point because that entire post really wasn't related at all to minimum wage or how it affects things in different situations.

I'm bullchitting that I took 2 courses required for a 2 year degree?
Is it really that surprising I took 2 bottom level courses? srs?

I grew up wearing phukking hand-me-downs that were as old as I was at some point.
I was even offered hand me down underwear at one point, and was forced to buy underwear with my birthday money.
Maybe that's why I don't fight for the upper class who buys their phukkin 16 year olds brand new cars, and then wants to talk about how people in poverty are entitled.

I was given birthday money by my grandparents, 100$ 2 or 3 times a year for around 13 years.
All of that money was spent by my mother to pay bills for the house.
I inherited 5g's from my grandfather when she died.
Went to paying the taxes on the house.

[tk217]

seattle has lower unemployment statistics than the US average

/thread

Seattle doesn't employee mostly minimum wage workers either.

[Chasthetics]

your course was taught by a capitalist, congratulations on being assimilated with his hegemonic viewpoints to your own disadvantage.

My micro course was taught by one last semester.
Suffice to say, I got a C+ for having controversial view points, despite doing all the homework and getting ~85 on our 3 tests.

Perhaps you performed poorly in the class because you entered it with preconceived notions about economics and were unable to accept the cognitive dissonance that arose as a result of what you were taught.

[Xzorroth]

Perhaps you performed poorly in the class because you entered it with preconceived notions about economics and were unable to accept the cognitive dissonance that arose as a result of what you were taught.

The tests were based on marginal cost calculations, price-taker or price-maker, chit like that.
They weren't opinion based tests.

It's cool that you assume I scored badly because of my personal opinions, and even if I was, that is not how a college course grade should be determined in the first phukking place. I didn't "perform poorly" unless you consider a B average a poor performance.
I'm sure you scored poorly in a sociology class because of your preconceived notions as well, at least based on how my course was taught to me, you would have scored poorly.

[Chasthetics]

I'm bullchitting that I took 2 courses required for a 2 year degree?
Is it really that surprising I took 2 bottom level courses? srs?

I didn't say that, I'm instead suggesting that you're spewing random economic jargon that's unrelated to minimum wage in an attempt to appear more economically literate than you actually are. If you could explain what in the hell "The only thing that screws it up is the fact that a company with more money can afford to do everything cheaper, including exporting labor" has to do with how minimum wage is only beneficial to society in monopolistic labor markets, then I refrain my assertion.

[chiseledmanbeef]

The companies are making more money from the extra spending, the government is making more money from the taxes, and the government gets to spend less on unemployment and other social programs.

I appreciate the logic in this, however those earning minimum wage represent such a small percentage of the entire US workforce (3% or so), the savings the government would receive is incredibly small compared to the total amount it pays out each year. Definitely not enough to justify an entire change in infrastructure. You also need to consider that not all minimum wage earners receive government benefits.

And there WOULD be a loss in jobs, probably not a huge number, but definitely a number that would help offset any savings the government would receive from welfare programs.

Also what happens if the dollar loses a lot of it's value and suddenly the same people that benefited from a minimum wage increase yet again need ANOTHER increase in minimum wage? See, the problem isn't the system - the problem is them because these people will ALWAYS depend on the system.

Since when are grown adults not responsible for their own lives? Oh that's right - since the existence of Democrats

[Xzorroth]

I didn't say that, I'm instead suggesting that you're spewing random economic jargon that's unrelated to minimum wage in an attempt to appear more economically literate than you actually are. If you could explain what in the hell "The only thing that screws it up is the fact that a company with more money can afford to do everything cheaper, including exporting labor" has to do with how minimum wage is only beneficial to society in monopolistic labor markets, then I refrain my assertion.

Large monopoly buys 100,000 cans of beans for 1,000,000 dollars.
Large monopoly with vertical integration PRODUCES and imports 100,000 cans of beans for 700,000 dollars.
A small business buys 100,000 cans of beans over many years for 1,200,000 dollars.

Minimum wage only working in our own country doesn't benefit against monopolies, because monopolies will find ways around things. You would need to export minimum wage with vertically integrated companies, or at the very least, figure out a way to tax them the appropriate amount regardless of where the work is done if the products are to be sold in America.

The only benefit you could probably find, is that a monopoly requires more employees, and thus cost of labor would increase likely on a larger scale(when compared to a smaller business), because they employ people for the specific purpose of it being cheaper to make a product then to purchase it.
If it was no longer worth producing a product to reduce costs, they would just purchase products on a large scale to resell them.

Vertically integrated companies pretty much thrive off of exporting labor and minimizing wealth spread to it's own consumers, which was illegal at one point during the start of industrialization, but is no longer.

[Xzorroth]

I appreciate the logic in this, however those earning minimum wage represent such a small percentage of the entire US workforce (3% or so), the savings the government would receive is incredibly small compared to the total amount it pays out each year. Definitely not enough to justify an entire change in infrastructure. You also need to consider that not all minimum wage earners receive government benefits.

And there WOULD be a loss in jobs, probably not a huge number, but definitely a number that would help offset any savings the government would receive from welfare programs.

Also what happens if the dollar loses a lot of it's value and suddenly the same people that benefited from a minimum wage increase yet again need ANOTHER increase in minimum wage? See, the problem isn't the system - the problem is them because these people will ALWAYS depend on the system.

Since when are grown adults not responsible for their own lives? Oh that's right - since the existence of Democrats

People making 10$ an hour are still in poverty.
The "system" only exists because corporations streamlined labor into a system where they are in a position to exploit labor on a large scale, to the point laborers cannot afford to live. This is how modern economies work.

You are automatically assuming the dollar will lose value, the only way it would lose value is if more money was printed and corporations continued to use free-market principals to extract the maximum amount of money out of the economy to begin with.

The only reason jobs would be lost or the dollar would lose value, is if the elite in the country decided they want the same size piece of wealth (which they would).
The problem is not the bottom end, it is the people at the top who for some reason think their labor is worth 100+ people's time at the bottom end.
Disproportion of wealth creates poverty, not people working 40+ hours a week for a "profitable" company that somehow can't pay their workers enough to afford an apartment, transportation, food, and other "basics", just lmao.
If you think internet and cell-phones aren't a basic necessity or something people should have in a 1st world country, you are a moron.

When one person is able to be wealthy, a company is considered profitable, that is modern society for you.

[0thersid3]

holy **** is the misc ever dumb

[invrlose123]

Ok so idk about McDonald's but I work at costco and my departments wages account for between 4.2% and 5% of total sales on the very high end depending on how much overtime we worked that week. And the average wage in my department is $21.00. I bet McDonald's and walmart figure is more like 2.5%. They can afford it and not need to raise cost more than like 5%. This might even be good for the economy. Less people on food stamps and they've got a little bit of extra cash to spend which is always good for the economy as a whole

Edit: I'm very conservative when it comes to business but FUKC corporations that make billions a year and pay horrible wages. Costco can afford to pay us 2 or 3 times more than the same job at Walmart.

[ho_124]

Then they'll protest that McDonald's took away their job, and protest for laws to protect their jobs. People don't understand that if you want to work minimum wage, you have to accept that you won't have any luxuries, and your money management has to be tight. It isn't meant to support a family.

[PwnedTheism]

Ok so idk about McDonald's but I work at costco and my departments wages account for between 4.2% and 5% of total sales on the very high end depending on how much overtime we worked that week. And the average wage in my department is $21.00. I bet McDonald's and walmart figure is more like 2.5%. They can afford it and not need to raise cost more than like 5%. This might even be good for the economy. Less people on food stamps and they've got a little bit of extra cash to spend which is always good for the economy as a whole

Edit: I'm very conservative when it comes to business but FUKC corporations that make billions a year and pay horrible wages. Costco can afford to pay us 2 or 3 times more than the same job at Walmart.

I worked at a mcdonalds during hs
(Fukking sucked quit after 1 month)

10% was rush hour
15% was averag
20% they would start sending people home


I also worked at sams club.
the sales amount they made there were not even comparable to mcdonalds

[Allen97]

The mininum wage should not be raised to 15$. Minimum wage jobs are usually jobs that take little effort and are used by high school and college kids. I know when im working my ass off to get a diploma i wont mind making 9$ an hour on the side for extra spending money. INb4 people say anything about it ill be paying off all my loans after i graduate so i will be trying to get a job to do that not work at mcdonalds.

[nutsy54]

McDonald's can afford it.

Based on what information?

McDonald’s reported one of its worst financial years on Friday, as burger lovers across the globe continue to fall out of love with the world’s largest restaurant chain.

The home of the Big Mac and Quarter Pounder said sales in 2014 dropped by 7% and annual profits plunged by 15%.
http://www.theguardian.com/business/...-plunge-report

[ipjuicy]

came in ready to make post about automated checkouts

ive started noticing them in macdonalds in australia

our min wage is already $16 tho

selfcheckouts at supermarkets are abundant tho

il never use them tho, the day noboy is at the counter is the day i stop paying for food #gobacktoyourowncountryrobots

[TR88]

lol lifes ****ed up

we have people who work at mc donalds and on the other hand mayweather made 200k yesterday while watching basketball

[t_raven]

lmfao that's not true at all.
You think a poverty level family with 3 poverty level jobs has time or cash to develop a business?

Besides that, you think they are all stupid anyway, so let's just assume they are all too stupid to do so anyway, and that is the only reason.
How do you imagine a stupid person doing this?

Because someone is stupid, but can still perform a task useful to an employer, they shouldn't be allowed to earn a livable wage?
just lmao.

If a business produces so little profit they can't afford to pay workers a livable wage, the business should go under.
Who gives a chit about the business owner, his business is only good for him.
Other businesses will take over that work.

I never said min wage workers are stupid. Some people in the world are stupid and that's just life. Most are not and could do more if they had the ambition. I'm not talking about middle age people needing to make a change now. I'm saying if everyone started life with goals and ambition and wanted to get educated in one way or another and strive to do something in life, this would breed a lot more innovation and new jobs. So many people have become very successful after hitting rock bottom because they had no choice but to make something happen.

So you're basically anti small business? It's better that they go out of business and they and their employees become unemployed?

[t_raven]

lol lifes ****ed up

we have people who work at mc donalds and on the other hand mayweather made 200k yesterday while watching basketball

It's funny how people will spend $100 to go to a concert or ball game, spend $200 to get the new iphone, then they bitch about paying $30 for an oil change or $15 for a meal at a restaurant. If rich people are so evil, let's stop giving them our money. Quit buying **** that puts money in the pockets of the rich and start paying more for the services you get from the lower class. But no one's going to do that, they want the gov to do it for them.

[TR88]

It's funny how people will spend $100 to go to a concert or ball game, spend $200 to get the new iphone, then they bitch about paying $30 for an oil change or $15 for a meal at a restaurant. If rich people are so evil, let's stop giving them our money. Quit buying **** that puts money in the pockets of the rich and start paying more for the services you get from the lower class. But no one's going to do that, they want the gov to do it for them.

yeah even if people like that wins the lottery they still will die poor at the end

also while we are having this discussion

[freshnevafrozen]

Instead of raising minimum wage, we should raise taxes on corporations. Srs. That should solve some problems.

[Budjola]

misc ameribrahs answer me this, what about USA companies that are hiring foreign workers, will they have minimum wage of 15$ for foreigners. for example im working for Royal Caribbean and what im getting paid is way below USA minimum wage, for my home country is ok, but for USA standards is poverty as phuck.

[t_raven]

I do agree the wage gap in our country sucks. There are probably ways to improve it, but I don't think a huge increase in min wage is going to solve anything.


How is raising min wage going to prevent the rich from getting richer? I'm interested in a realistic example.

Let's take going to a movie, movie stars make millions right? I think it's ridiculous that celebs make so much money to act or play stupid games. So two middle class people want to go see a movie. The movie theater had to double min wage, how does that take money out of the actor's pockets? It's going to take money out of the pockets of the theater owner, and us the customer when ticket prices go up.

[gilesmiles1]

It's funny how people will spend $100 to go to a concert or ball game, spend $200 to get the new iphone, then they bitch about paying $30 for an oil change or $15 for a meal at a restaurant. If rich people are so evil, let's stop giving them our money. Quit buying **** that puts money in the pockets of the rich and start paying more for the services you get from the lower class. But no one's going to do that, they want the gov to do it for them.

In the Uk people get raped on housing costs by rich private landlords. I know of one guy with 350 units, and another with a thousand. It's money for nothing, and it rapes the very poorest hardest. If they have money for a restaurant, which I doubt, it's not very often. They certainly don't have cars. Do lots of poor people do lots of stupid sh&t with their money that you or I wouldn't contemplate? Hell yes, but it's insignificant next to their non discretionary spend on housing, heating, food.