HELP: What's First - Build Muscle or Lose Fat?

ubermumma · 03-01-2007, 08:38 PM

I really thought I was focussed. The decision had been made: lift heavy, lift often, eat clean and up the calories to 2000 in an attempt to build some mass. Two weeks later (and admittedly in a PMS crisis) I am feeling fat as a house and not at all sure that I am doing the right thing.

So, does building muscle mean that a layer of fat comes with it? If I try to lose body fat first does that mean I risk losing any muscle I have managed to build over the last 5 months? I don't think my body type is one that can manage to do both at the same time.

Today I am 42yo, 5'7", 137lb and 24%BF. Fit Day has my calorie requirements at about 2400 for my level of activity. At 2000 i've mgd to put on weight. Burn the Fat, Feed the Muscle calculations work out to about 1700 calories to lose Fat. Do you think I would also be able to build muscle with those calories? Another BFFM calculation has me aiming for a body weight of 120lb if I want to have a BF% of 18%. That seems pretty light!!

HELP, going around in circles!!

JOURNAL: http://forum.bodybuilding.com/showthread.php?t=1554851

audioescape · 03-01-2007, 10:46 PM

Let's see...

Quote:

Originally Posted by ubermumma

So, does building muscle mean that a layer of fat comes with it?

Uhm... yes, usually. But it really depends on your goal. Since this is the female bodybuilding forum I assume you want to "bulk up", that is, gain some serious mass. If that's the case, then you are going need those extra calories.

If you are going for the fitness competitor look, then that's a different story.

Quote:

Originally Posted by ubermumma

If I try to lose body fat first does that mean I risk losing any muscle I have managed to build over the last 5 months? I don't think my body type is one that can manage to do both at the same time.

During the cutting phase, one always experiment some muscle loss. The idea here is to minimize the effect. Keep on lifting as usual, but make changes in your diet if you want to cut. Also, add more cardio (preferably HIIT).

See? It goes like this: Say your were 125 lbs when you started. Now you managed to go up to 137 lbs. Of course, not all of it is muscle, there's some fat in the mix. So you decide to go on a cutting phase. In a few months you'll be, say, 129 lbs. after cutting. That would be (ideally) lean mass. You've gained 5 pounds of pure muscle. And it shows!

Time to bulk up again.

Quote:

Originally Posted by ubermumma

At 2000 i've mgd to put on weight. Burn the Fat, Feed the Muscle calculations work out to about 1700 calories to lose Fat. Do you think I would also be able to build muscle with those calories?

Definitely won't gain more muscle while eating less calories ("can't build a house without bricks", as some say). But you can try to maintain as much muscle as possible while cutting.

And also, you'll love the look you get after the cutting phase is over.

So... time to set some goals. How much did you weight 5 months ago when you started? What was your BF then? You need to determine if it is wise to keep on bulking (and if it is, do it right - no regrets). Or if it is time to start cutting.

The choice is yours.

darkangel · 03-02-2007, 11:57 AM

Some lucky folks can manage to put on lean muscle while losing bodyfat, but it's difficult for most of us. Most folks cycle back and forth from massing to cutting phases. At 24% you're on the high end of "fit." I'd chose to cut first and lower bodyfat percentage, then work on massing when you can better afford to gain a little fat along with the muscle, but it kinda depends on what your goal is. You may not be shooting for a BF% in the athletic category.

Quote:

The American Council on Exercise provides the following ranges for body-fat percentage for women:

Essential fat
10-12%

Athletes
14-20%

Fitness
21-24%

Acceptable
25-31%

Obese
32% plus

audioescape · 03-02-2007, 01:31 PM

Wow. I didn't know 20-24% BF was the range for fitness.

Thanks for that info.

darkangel · 03-02-2007, 03:54 PM

Those percentages are from WebMD and are a good rule of thumb for the general public. Opinions of what bodyfat percentage constitutes "fit" for the advanced exerciser or fitness competitor may be much different. On the program I'm on, anything over 20% for women requires a fatloss cycle before massing.

moon girl · 03-02-2007, 04:03 PM

IMO the calorie requirements fitday gives aren't very accurate. For me it says I maintain at just under 3000 calories and I'd be gaining weight at a VERY rapid pace if I ate that much (maintenance probably rougly 2000-2200). Maybe try one of the online BMR calculators to get a better idea of how many calories you need to maintain.

evolutionarymac · 03-02-2007, 05:17 PM

you can do both at the same time, its way to engrained in peoples mind that it can be done...

ubermumma · 03-02-2007, 06:17 PM

Thanks everyone for the replies so far.....and keep 'em coming. I know I'll be more likely to stick with this sensibly if I lean down first.

I am a classic pear and all bones on top but summer is just finishing here in Oz so I can cover the bones with some clothes!! Much easier to hide the top half than the bottom half!! I'll trim some calories (and yes, Moon Girl, Fit Day does seem very generous with the cals!), up the cardio and continue to lift and see if that gets things moving in the right direction!

Must also promise to measure BF on dodgy scales at the same time everyday. I know I need to be patient but I need reassurance I am on the right path (and 2000 plus calories a day seemed very wrong!!)

MauiZos · 03-02-2007, 06:33 PM

A really serious bulk WILL involve gaining some fat along with the muscle. I felt like a total cow at some points while I was trying to gain! I just had to keep in mind that it was all part of the plan.

As much as we are taught that you cannot lose fat and gain muscle at the same time, it IS possible and I've seen it happen. My nutritionist, who manages the diets of a host of figure competitors, says his girls usually gain 2-3lb of lean mass over 16 weeks of cutting. What becomes important though is WHAT you're eating, not just total caloric intake. You need to stimulate as much muscle growth and lipid metabolism as possible and as little fat storage. This means loads of protein, decreasing carbs (replace with green veggies), and 20% calories from healthy oils. You would continue weight training just as heavy and make sure you get plenty of sleep.

HIIT for bodybuilders is an ongoing controvery. It will certainly increase endurance and VO2 peak (good for athletes like cyclists and runners) and has a much higher "after burn" from a metabolic standpoint. It does, however, burn a greater percentage of calories from muscle and less from fat. Low or medium intensity cardio, however, burns a much higher percentage from fat but fewer calories in absolute terms. The latest research suggests that 7 sessions of HIIT over two weeks (4 10-min bouts at 90% VO2 max with 2 min rest intervals) can increase body fat oxidation by 36%. This is accomplished via an increase in some of the enzymes involved in fat metabolism. The bottom line is that HIIT should be used cautiously in the mesocycle of a bodybuilder, and fits best as a two week ramp up to a cutting phase.

(I can provide sources if interested)