Story time, Incident with the Manchester NH Police.

[acrawlingchaos]

Friday night, I was out on the coast taking some night time photographs. On our way home dawn was breaking, and we would be passing through Manchester about 15 minutes before sunrise. I decided to take the opportunity to photograph a Bald Eagles nest I had recently discovered. I was able to get a few shots, and decided to pack up and head back home.

As we were returning to the car walking down a service road, we saw an individual dressed in black approaching us. As he neared to about 75 meters, he pulled a side arm on us.

shouts "Put your hands up"
We all immediately comply.
shouts "Where's the weapon?
I reply "What?"
Shouts again "Where's the weapon?
I reply "We don't have any weapons"

He approaches us with his weapon drawn on us as he closes the distance, all the while our hands were up.
He then states "Manchester PD, we had reports of 3 men coming in here, one with a rifle"
I replied "I only have this camera, I don't have any weapons."
"Is the white vehicle at the road yours?"
"Yes"
"I saw what looked like weapons in the back"
"No you didn't, I don't have any weapons in the vehicle."

He then asks for our license, which I didn't have on me, neither did my brother. Phil did, so he took his license and asked for our full names and dates of birth. We complied.
As we were waiting, I asked the officers if we could walk back to the cars while they ran the information. He allowed us to. 5 minutes later, we were cleared and allowed to leave.






Today, I called the Officer on Duty about the incident. I told him that I was a veteran and had never feared for my safety. I told him that the officer never identified himself and was wearing apparel that covered insignia (not that I would have seen it at 75 meters). I explained that even if I had a firearm, I could do so legally as this was a shall issue and open carry state. He reiterated that the reports had stated two men had guns (initially the responding officer said one. I again explained that I could patrol the streets with all my friends armed with AR's at midnight, and could do so legally. The conversation was cordial but a bit heated at times.

Not sure if I want to let this go. I'm still a bit pissed.

[cowboybiker]

In on Bodyhard thread.

[acrawlingchaos]

In on Bodyhard thread.

Except I put my hands up, and want to work this out in a civilized manner.

No fist full of quarters for this kid.

[cowboybiker]

Except I put my hands up, and want to work this out in a civilized manner.

Point taken.

But what would be the end result that you're looking for?

[acrawlingchaos]

Point taken.

But what would be the end result that you're looking for?

Impress upon the fact that simply having a firearm is not grounds for the police to draw a weapon on a law abiding citizen. Perhaps make them understand that identifying themselves if they decide to draw a weapon is more than just a courtesy.

What they did had the capacity to go very bad, very easily. I honestly did not know the man pulling a gun on me was a police officer. I assumed he was and hoped for the best.

[so-tex]

I would be pissed as well, but you did the right thing by complying. Wtf? You live in an open carry state. If there had been reports of shots fired, different story maybe. The officer was wrong smh.

[acrawlingchaos]

I would be pissed as well, but you did the right thing by complying. Wtf? You live in an open carry state. If there had been reports of shots fired, different story maybe. The officer was wrong smh.

I'm a little bit better after speaking with the officer on duty. He asked what I wanted him to do. I told him to use it for up-training, as what not supposed to do. I understand that the OOD isn't going to openly state his officer did something wrong. I hope they do use the incident as up-training.

But yes, we are in a shall issue and open carry state. We also have extremely low incidents of violent crime (lowest in the country). People occasionally come to this area to pop some rounds off as it is a wooded secluded area. They know well enough that the most anyone would be doing would be plinking a few rounds at the trees.

I'm not sure to trust that they will do something about it, or if I should push more than just speaking with the OOD.

[so-tex]

I'm a little bit better after speaking with the officer on duty. He asked what I wanted him to do. I told him to use it for up-training, as what not supposed to do. I understand that the OOD isn't going to openly state his officer did something wrong. I hope they do use the incident as up-training.

But yes, we are in a shall issue and open carry state. We also have extremely low incidents of violent crime (lowest in the country). People occasionally come to this area to pop some rounds off as it is a wooded secluded area. They know well enough that the most anyone would be doing would be plinking a few rounds at the trees.

I'm not sure to trust that they will do something about it, or if I should push more than just speaking with the OOD.

Not sure what you should do. It sounds like this particular officer realizes he made a mistake. It pisses me off that he didn't immediately identity himself.

[vakrka]

I would imagine it is tough to be a police officer walking into Darkwoods after a report that somebody is in there with the rifle

[acrawlingchaos]

I would imagine it is tough to be a police officer walking into Darkwoods after a report that somebody is in there with the rifle

It wasn't dark, the sun was in the sky. It was 6:30 on a warm spring morning.

Why would an officer feel threatened by a citizen exercising his right to carry a firearm?
If the officer had felt it was a dangerous situation, why did he approach us alone when his back up was 5 minutes behind him?
He clearly saw that none of us had any firearms, he asked where they were. None of were wearing large overcoats that could conceal a rifle.

[acrawlingchaos]

Not sure what you should do. It sounds like this particular officer realizes he made a mistake. It pisses me off that he didn't immediately identity himself.

I was hoping some of the 035 LEO would point me in the right direction... or help decide if I should let it go at this point.

[Plateauplower]

Sounds like the officer could have approached things a little better, it might have been a little excessive to draw on you guys until he felt it was potentially threatening to his safety. That said putting yourself in his position, approaching several people who may have been reported to be carrying firearms or perhaps there was an incident complaint in the area that didn't involve you guys and he might have been a little keyed up. It doesn't sound like he infringed on your rights, but it sounds a little excessive and kind of creepy. If I were in an open carry / shall issue state I would always be armed. Officer could have been new too, who knows. Glad it went better than it could have....

[Juggertha]

It doesn't sound like he infringed on your rights, but it sounds a little excessive and kind of creepy.

A man walking towards me with his weapon drawn and pointed at me... seems like a violation of something.

[vakrka]

I oversee a university police force and since it was daylight. The extent of what I would have accepted would have been hand on gun but still in holster

[Corbi]

Obviously you went about it all wrong, 1st thing you should have done was run and then when cornered you should have attacked the cop and done your very best to beat the $hit out of him. I'm sure it would have ended much better if you did it that way

[ElrondHubbard]

I'm a little bit better after speaking with the officer on duty. He asked what I wanted him to do. I told him to use it for up-training, as what not supposed to do. I understand that the OOD isn't going to openly state his officer did something wrong. I hope they do use the incident as up-training.

But yes, we are in a shall issue and open carry state. We also have extremely low incidents of violent crime (lowest in the country). People occasionally come to this area to pop some rounds off as it is a wooded secluded area. They know well enough that the most anyone would be doing would be plinking a few rounds at the trees.

I'm not sure to trust that they will do something about it, or if I should push more than just speaking with the OOD.

Good that you were able to speak to the officer afterwards, and hopefully he was sincerely interested in feedback and not just blowing you off. Otherwise, seems like your only real alternative is to get a lawyer involved, which probably won't do much good either.

I would definitely follow up and find out if there has been some lessons learned on their side. Sounds to me like you handled it the right way.

[MoeBettuh]

OP, I think you should definitely have made the call. Would not "let it go", these cop shops need to hear that people aren't okay with being drawn on over "calls" they get about guns. Frankly the cop who drew on you without identifying himself is lucky none of you were CCing.


ETA: to be clear, you guys are also lucky you weren't CCing.

[Clinos]

OP, I think you should definitely have made the call. Would not "let it go", these cop shops need to hear that people aren't okay with being drawn on over "calls" they get about guns. Frankly the cop who drew on you without identifying himself is lucky none of you were CCing.


ETA: to be clear, you guys are also lucky you weren't CCing.

Screw that. That officer will either learn his lesson the hard way or the town will have a large payout for a family while establishing some case law. Its horrible tactically to approach a long arm with a side arm, not ID yourself in a state that has open and concealed carry, and corner people off a trail with a firearm pointed at them. At the least as another poster stated hand on sidearm is fine, but drawn? Crazy. Good on you OP for drawing it up and being somewhat vocal about it, but without some training the problem will solve itself sadly.

[DontMusclWantng]

I'm a little bit better after speaking with the officer on duty. He asked what I wanted him to do. I told him to use it for up-training, as what not supposed to do. I understand that the OOD isn't going to openly state his officer did something wrong. I hope they do use the incident as up-training.

But yes, we are in a shall issue and open carry state. We also have extremely low incidents of violent crime (lowest in the country).

That's the rub. They were in near panic mode at the news of an armed robbery.

[acrawlingchaos]

Sounds like the officer could have approached things a little better, it might have been a little excessive to draw on you guys until he felt it was potentially threatening to his safety. That said putting yourself in his position, approaching several people who may have been reported to be carrying firearms or perhaps there was an incident complaint in the area that didn't involve you guys and he might have been a little keyed up. It doesn't sound like he infringed on your rights, but it sounds a little excessive and kind of creepy. If I were in an open carry / shall issue state I would always be armed. Officer could have been new too, who knows. Glad it went better than it could have....

I'll have to disagree about infringing about rights, I had a gun in pointed at my dome for no reason. I don't normally carry, and it's a sad day when my urge to do so because of a poor experience with LEO.

A man walking towards me with his weapon drawn and pointed at me... seems like a violation of something.

It's pretty much how I felt.

I oversee a university police force and since it was daylight. The extent of what I would have accepted would have been hand on gun but still in holster

This I could understand.

Obviously you went about it all wrong, 1st thing you should have done was run and then when cornered you should have attacked the cop and done your very best to beat the $hit out of him. I'm sure it would have ended much better if you did it that way

Ya.... I'm not sure whether these guys are trained to not shoot at someone's back.

Good that you were able to speak to the officer afterwards, and hopefully he was sincerely interested in feedback and not just blowing you off. Otherwise, seems like your only real alternative is to get a lawyer involved, which probably won't do much good either.

No, there is another alternative. I could patrol the streets armed with a rifle and wait for a police encounter to up train them myself. The town is local, and I could start walking the streets around mid night after work. I have a decent enough camera where I could record each session.

As far as feedback, I won't get any with a phone call. I would have to escalate the complaint, and I really do not know how to do that.

Screw that. That officer will either learn his lesson the hard way or the town will have a large payout for a family while establishing some case law. Its horrible tactically to approach a long arm with a side arm, not ID yourself in a state that has open and concealed carry, and corner people off a trail with a firearm pointed at them. At the least as another poster stated hand on sidearm is fine, but drawn? Crazy. Good on you OP for drawing it up and being somewhat vocal about it, but without some training the problem will solve itself sadly.

TY.

That's the rub. They were in near panic mode at the news of an armed robbery.

If a police officer panics at every mention of a firearm, he needs to be let go.

[acrawlingchaos]

Where are all the LEO? I even linked in the Misc firearms Crew. These type of threads usually blow up.

[ChazWood]

ACC, my prickly friend - It's a scientific fact that test is low on Mondays.

This might help:



It sure as chit can't hurt!

P.S. glad u didn't get capped.

[Karl_Hungus]

No, there is another alternative. I could patrol the streets armed with a rifle and wait for a police encounter to up train them myself. The town is local, and I could start walking the streets around mid night after work. I have a decent enough camera where I could record each session.

You were making pretty good sense up until you posted ^^ this. Patrolling the streets with a firearm in hopes of provoking a confrontation with police in order to properly "train them" is a pretty dumb idea .... and can end badly for you in a number of different ways. I'm not suggesting just letting it go, but pursue this through proper channels.

[Clinos]

ACC, my prickly friend - It's a scientific fact that test is low on Mondays.

This might help:

[ig]http://i.imgur.com/ZtrQgYP.jpg[/img]

You must spread some Reputation around before giving it to ChazWood again.

[acrawlingchaos]

ACC, my prickly friend - It's a scientific fact that test is low on Mondays.

This might help:

[img]http://i.imgur.com/ZtrQgYP.jpg[img]

It sure as chit can't hurt!

P.S. glad u didn't get capped.

Thanks for looking out bro.

You were making pretty good sense up until you posted ^^ this. Patrolling the streets with a firearm in hopes of provoking a confrontation with police in order to properly "train them" is a pretty dumb idea .... and can end badly for you in a number of different ways. I am aware this is very foolish, I was simply stating this was an alternative. This was part of my conversation with the OOD. I told him even if I had a firearm, I am perfectly allowed to carry it.

I mentioned this to the officer on duty in my phone conversation. That I could patrol the streets with my friends with firearms; and that I could do so without his permission. In the same breath, I told him I wouldn't do such a thing because of the propensity to cause panic. I made the point to try and drive the fact through that simply having a weapon is not grounds to draw your own weapon on a citizen.

I understand this would be foolish but simply mentioned it ITT to highlight the fact that there is options beyond getting a lawyer or just dealing with it. If I was to conduct an open carry protest, I would go through the proper channels, to include informing the city of my intent to do so.

I'm not suggesting just letting it go, but pursue this through proper channels.

This is why I created the thread. What would I do at this point? Do I talk to someone else at the Police Station? Do I write an email or letter to someone in the City? Do I file a complaint? With who? This is what I was hoping the people experienced with LEO could help me with.

I'm not looking to file a lawsuit. I'm not looking to hit the streets to protest. I'm not even looking for an apology. All I want, is for someone to say "I'll make sure this is addressed" and not be blown off.

[NorwichGrad]

What the cop did was not right at all.

The same thing happened to me over 20 years ago as a high school kid in Los Angeles. On way to school with two friends. Cop pulls us over. We thought it was because the driver (a Jordanian friend, the other friend was Armenian) was speeding. He draws his gun and calls for backup. We $hit our pants.. Minutes later there were cop cars everywhere.. We were surrounded. Guns drawn. They told us to get out. We were cuffed on the ground.

They searched the car for something. We didn�t know what they were looking for.. Drugs, guns, money? We didn�t know. They did not find what they were looking for. SO they released us.

It was a case of �mistaken identity.� The cop that pulled us over (he was Black) thought we were in a drive-by shooting. They were looking for bullet holes.. Yeah fresh bullet holes.

I talked to my Spanish teacher that day, who happened to be a licensed lawyer. He said, �There is nothing you can do about it.. blah..blah..�

PROBABLE CAUSE was the reason.. This was in Los Angeles. A corrupt city with corrupt LAPD.

What happened to you was not right.. But what�s even more screwed up is that you are in NH, the Live Free or Die state. $hit floats everywhere, unfortunately (referring to that cop).

Yeah, you gotta do something but in such a way that you don�t set a bull�s eye on your back for these cops to harass you in the future. But you have to do something so it doesn�t happen again.

There are good and bad cops, just like anywhere else. And if it will make you feel better, when I shot competitively I used to shoot with LEO. A lot of them suck at marksmanship. True story.

[Corbi]

Yrs ago my buddy and I were out with two girls in my 73 Mustang and we had a case of beer in the backseat and headed to the bowling alley. A car crawls up my ass and I decide I will lose the guy so I make a few quick turns here and there and then screw up and go down a dead end road. Well as I am turning around the car that was following me comes down the road and of course it's a cop, he lights us up like the 4th of july and what do I do? I jump out of the car and the cop instantly pulls his .38 revolver and levels it at my head and of course i'm screaming "don't shoot, don't shoot". Turns out it was a case of mistaken identity, he was looking for a blue car which mine was that was involved in something and I didn't ask what. he apologized for pulling the gun and used the "i'm the only officer patroling this section of town right now" line. We sat there for a bit gathering our thoughts and I was cleaning the $hit out of my underwear...do realize how massive the exit point of a lousy .38 looks when it's pointed at you?