The two largest Christian churches in the world, catholic and orthodox, both do condemn divorce. With the catholic church completely forbidding it in the case of a valid marriage, and the orthodox requiring long periods of penance and withdrawal from communion. I rather suspect that in more conservative denominations of protestantism, such as the sbc, divorce is considered a grave sin as well.
Originally Posted by Catholic Catechism
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04-16-2015, 10:02 AM #121
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04-16-2015, 10:26 AM #122
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04-16-2015, 10:27 AM #123
1) It's not a contradiction because it's speaking about two different things
&
2) "(though the process was meant to instill fear in the ways already explained)" that is, (1) participating in someone dying in-front of or because of you (which instills fear of being killed for breaking law), and, (2) this participation didn't make people afraid of the process of being stoned because they still broke law.
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04-16-2015, 10:31 AM #124
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04-16-2015, 10:36 AM #125
I'm saying that they were well aware of the consequences of their actions before participating in them, and because the went ahead and broke the law, they obviously didn't fear dying in that manner... and if they did fear dying in that manner the desire to break the law was greater than their fear. And this just shows that stoning in and of itself was not some ghastly thing that made people cower (however unpleasant). The stones were usually huge aiding in the speed of death.
edit: don't misread the stones being huge and say, wow that just proves how barbaric it was. Why don't you research the process before commenting.★ M0D Positivity Crew ★ № 1th ★ Α ★
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04-16-2015, 10:39 AM #126
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04-16-2015, 11:11 AM #127
i actually like what the pope is trying to with making a distinction b/t theology and how people act.
first, i am making a distinction here b/t christians (i.e. people professing to be chrisitians) and christianity (i.e. christian institutions, catholicism, orthodoxy, etc.).
there are so many different christian institutions, i can't even began to pretend to be knowledgeable about them all.
i think the pope's point, and my point, is while the bible condemns particular behaviors as sinful (e.g. divorce and remarrying, homosexuality, backbiting) christians (i.e. people professing to be chrisitians) pick and choose which ones to condemn.
here in america (again can't say what's happening with russian orthodox christians, for example) christians choose to condemn homosexuality as immoral but put up less of a fuss about other things the bible and christian institutions condemn.
this is the problem people have ITT, christians (again strictly america here, not trying to compare case by case christian practices across the world on different issues) cherry pick what and what not to condemn.
again, if we are strictly rational and logical in this, the christian pizza shop in Indiana should not be serving remarried people, backbiters (i.e. any sinner at all).
they should not be serving anyone!
in this instance imho, we could all use a bit of Romans 3:23 and John 8:7.
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04-16-2015, 11:20 AM #128
The orthodox church is one of the smallest Christian churches in the world. I mean, no offense, but where do you get these stats from? The major Protestant churches also clearly condemn divorce. Here's the Reformed church for a representative position:
Marriage is an institution created by God. It is a covenant relationship established by mutual vows between a man and a woman united by God. Permanent unity in marriage is possible in Christ and is demanded of Christ’s disciples who are married. Marriages should not be dissolved; divorce is contrary to God’s will. However, by persistent and unrepented sin, people can separate what God has joined together. Scripture acknowledges that certain actions and attitudes that occur in a sinful world and conflict with God’s will can destroy a marriage relationship.
Since failure to keep the marriage covenant is sin, the church must exercise a ministry of reconciliation and call marriage partners to confession, forgiveness, reconciliation, and renewed obedience. The church must minister with special concern to those involved in the traumatic experience of divorce, speaking with clarity where sinful conduct is overt and apparent and exercising formal discipline when there is disdain for biblical teaching and when repentance is beyond hope. The church must be a place of acceptance and support for those who have been divorced and for their children.
The church should neither issue a clear prohibition against remarriage nor attempt to list with legal precision the circumstances under which remarriage does not conflict with biblical teaching. The church must apply biblical principles to concrete situations in the light of its best understanding of what happened in a particular divorce and what is being planned for a particular remarriage.
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04-16-2015, 11:28 AM #129
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04-16-2015, 11:29 AM #130
*sigh* not this strawman argument again.
“I don’t have a problem with gay people. I do not condone gay marriage and that’s what I said,” he said. “I don’t turn anybody away from the store, I don’t have a problem with gay people. I just don’t condone the marriage.”
http://www.thedailybeast.com/article...-weddings.htmlYahweh is a man of war. Yahweh is his name. - Exodus 15:3
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04-16-2015, 11:31 AM #131
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04-16-2015, 11:32 AM #132
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04-16-2015, 11:36 AM #133
If you conglomerate all protestant denominations together sure. Since we are talking about stances towards divorce I didn't think it would be very fair to lump the ECLA with the SBC.
And my point was there is a wide overarching consensus on disapproval of divorce, in response to an accusation of cherry picking.
You can take your cape off, I wasn't attacking protestantism.
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04-16-2015, 11:40 AM #134
Sure, just like you're conglomerating the Greek, Russian & other orthodox churches for your purposes. When speaking on matters of consensus, I use massive churches like the SBC for the representative position, rather than pointing to the negligible ECLA to discount everyone else. That's my primary point.
Last edited by confuoco; 04-16-2015 at 01:01 PM.
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04-16-2015, 11:41 AM #135
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04-16-2015, 11:44 AM #136
Strictly speaking, Judaism and Christianity are one and the same.
Old Testament believers looked forward to the coming of the Messiah who would save Israel and the world from their sins.
New Testament believers believe the Messiah has come in the flesh and will come again.
The Jewish believers took the name "Christian" as a way to differentiate themselves from those who they thought had hijacked Judaism.Yahweh is a man of war. Yahweh is his name. - Exodus 15:3
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04-16-2015, 11:45 AM #137
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04-16-2015, 11:47 AM #138
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04-16-2015, 11:52 AM #139
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04-16-2015, 11:59 AM #140
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04-16-2015, 11:59 AM #141
Bloody hell. This is utterly ridiculous, I can't believe you're actually saying this. You are aware that people generally don't want to die, right? People commit, and have been committing, crimes that carry sentences they don't want since time immemorial. That's why you see videos of people breaking down and crying when they're given a harsh sentence. Nobody has had their head on the chopping block or been strapped into an electric chair and thought "ah well, fair's fair."
Nobody doesn't fear being executed.
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04-16-2015, 03:20 PM #142
dude, what are u talking about?
the article clear says:
If a gay couple came in and wanted us to provide pizzas for their wedding, we would have to say no,” Memories Pizza’s Crystal O’Connor told a local news station.
my point is, again if u want to be technical and if we are strictly rational and logical in this, the christian pizza shop in Indiana should not be serving pizza at any wedding at all!
that means no pizza for weddings of people getting remarried, backbiters etc, (i.e. the wedding of any sinner at all).
i am not setting up any strawman here. u misunderstand the argument. the issue is not how christians or the pizza shop feels about gays. i am not arguing about feelings towards an issue. the issue is not about whether or not the pizza shop serves pizza to gays or serves pizza at a gay wedding.
the issue is about cherry picking what to and what not to condemn.
in this instance the pizza shop is cherry picking to condemn gays by choosing to not serve pizza at a gay wedding. what matters here is the condemnation.
there are many actions that bible and chrisitianity condemns that the pizza shop is choosing not to condemn, divorce and remarriage for instance.
again, the argument here is not about whether or not the pizza shop serves gays. the argument here is about cherry picking what to and what not to condemn.
that's the issue ITT.
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04-16-2015, 03:25 PM #143
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04-16-2015, 03:26 PM #144
i think, simply put, people sometimes think they can get away with a crime.
that's why sotrktiv's theory does not hold.
it's not like hernandez commits murder and wants to get life in prison. no, he's trying to cover up the murder and not get caught.
i imagine people 5,000 years ago did the same thing when the committed a crime which carried the penalty of being stoned to death.
they tried to get away with the crime.
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04-16-2015, 03:28 PM #145
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04-16-2015, 03:30 PM #146
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04-16-2015, 04:20 PM #147
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04-16-2015, 06:04 PM #148
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04-16-2015, 07:46 PM #149
You're acting like you have the mind of a goldfish. What I mean is you read and respond to single statements as if they are separate and distinct, or not part of a prior series. I suggest you reread the other statements in that series or be quite, because now you're looking incapable (no ad hominem).
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04-17-2015, 01:52 AM #150
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