a question about kettlebell training

[Domicron]

This question may not belong in the equipment forum, but i know a few of the people who in here know quite a bit about KB training and i'd appreciate your advice. i'm just getting started using my bells, having bought them a while ago. i have 3 (8, 12, and 16 kg) and recently started swinging them regularly for some cardio after my workouts. i just use a tabata timer, swing for 20 seconds, rest for 10, repeat.

there's a lot of drivel out there when i use my google, so i thought i'd ask you guys for your advice:

-do you guys consider the kettlebell a good tool for high intensity cardio? or do you feel that more traditional hiit using biking/sprinting is better? i don't have the desire to use a prowler and i don't have the time/patience for low intensity cardio.

-i've heard for a while i should just work on my swing until i feel comfortable with it. right now i feel fairly fatigued with even the 12kg swinging for 5 or 6 minutes, but the 8kg i can go for at least 10 minutes or so (i'm really out of shape, and weak). i'm swinging it about face-height (low ceilings, nervous to go higher)

-i don't want kb training to get in the way of my normal lifting routine, but do you guys have a nice warmup routine i could do with maybe the 8kg bell before i lift to get the heart rate up and get my body loosened up?

appreciate your advice/input.

[rlundregan]

I'm not real knowledgeable, but I heard that you shouldn't swing the KB any higher than about shoulder or face height (arm parallel to the ground). With higher weights, once you start swinging higher, you start to hyperextend your back, which is not good.

I feel like I get a pretty good workout from swinging a KB, although I only do it once in a blue moon. I might be tempted to use a lifting strap if I were really going to push myself, just because I wouldn't want it to slip out of my hand and through a window or something.

I can't say it is my favorite cardio activity, but it is effective.

KBKB is one of the more knowledgeable guys on this subject, I would expect that he'll have lots of good information on the topic.

[Domicron]

yeah, i was thinking i may need to start using my chalk, given that i have my laptop in the window sill and watch youtube videos while i swing. one slip and i say goodbye to both...

and i was thinking about KBKB, actually. i would just PM him, but i've seen other people contribute a decent amount too, thought i'd ask. thanks

[keyboardworkout]

I've had lots of wrong shaped bells and competition bells over the years but I have sold them all. The kettlebell swing is an excellent movement. The other kettlebell movements, not so much.

I think you are better served with dumbbells and a Hungarian Core Blaster.

http://store.sorinex.com/Hungarian_C...ed_p/hcb-1.htm

I do heavy swings with my HCB usually at a rate of 20 on the top of every minute for 5-8 rounds.

I might even go so far as to say that the kettlebell swing > reverse hyper.

[rlundregan]

One movement that I keep meaning to incorporate into my routine is the Turkish Get Up. It seems like it might be helpful for dealing with some imbalance/dysfunction between the right/left sides of my body. No reason you couldn't use DB's for that as well, I suppose.

[Domicron]

I've had lots of wrong shaped bells and competition bells over the years but I have sold them all. The kettlebell swing is an excellent movement. The other kettlebell movements, not so much.

I think you are better served with dumbbells and a Hungarian Core Blaster.

http://store.sorinex.com/Hungarian_C...ed_p/hcb-1.htm

I do heavy swings with my HCB usually at a rate of 20 on the top of every minute for 5-8 rounds.

I might even go so far as to say that the kettlebell swing > reverse hyper.

thanks, i'm not planning on buying that HCB right now, but it's interesting. we'll see if i take an interest in the other kettlebell movements later on or not. i think cleans might be a good next step, but i dunno what else i'll really care to do. if swings is all i care to do, that HCB looks like the ticket (though 130 bucks seems pretty pricy for something so simple, maybe not).

One movement that I keep meaning to incorporate into my routine is the Turkish Get Up. It seems like it might be helpful for dealing with some imbalance/dysfunction between the right/left sides of my body. No reason you couldn't use DB's for that as well, I suppose.

growing up working in a restaurant (and working full time in one now) i definitely have shoulder imbalances. my left shoulder is much stronger than my right. maybe the turkish getup will be useful. i was thinking the other day what might help me balance them out. i think once i can get more regular in my swinging/cardio, i'll be more apt to use it as an actual accessory lift.

[daniel327]

-do you guys consider the kettlebell a good tool for high intensity cardio?

Absolutely.

Try this routine and judge for yourself:

21 KB swings
5 burpees
18 KB swings
5 burpees
15 KB swings
5 burpees
12 KB swings
5 burpees
9 KB swings
5 burpees
6 KB swings
5 burpees
3 KB swings
5 burpees
6 KB swings
5 burpees
9 KB swings
5 burpees
12 KB swings
5 burpees
15 KB swings
5 burpees
18 KB swings
5 burpees
21 KB swings
5 burpees

[Domicron]

i'm at work though, i can't do it right now, also i don't have my kbs!

but ya thanks, is that done without any rest? or do you break it up. honestly i can't pull that off, but just curious.

lately i've been hearing about hardstyle and other such complications and want to just be as simple as i can.

[keyboardworkout]

There are cheaper examples of a Hungarian Core Blaster. I just used Sorinex as an example.


Here is a review of the one I have.

http://forum.bodybuilding.com/showth...hp?t=157553733

[daniel327]

but ya thanks, is that done without any rest? or do you break it up. honestly i can't pull that off, but just curious.

Ideally you don't rest, but you'll be extremely fit if you can pull it off.

You can also start on a lower level (i.e. begin with 15 KB swings and go down the ladder and back up to 15) and then add more levels as your fitness improves.

[keyboardworkout]

lately i've been hearing about hardstyle and other such complications

Be careful with that stuff Dom, it's a lot like Scientology.

[rlundregan]

Absolutely.

Try this routine and judge for yourself:

21 KB swings
5 burpees
18 KB swings
5 burpees
15 KB swings
5 burpees
12 KB swings
5 burpees
9 KB swings
5 burpees
6 KB swings
5 burpees
3 KB swings
5 burpees
6 KB swings
5 burpees
9 KB swings
5 burpees
12 KB swings
5 burpees
15 KB swings
5 burpees
18 KB swings
5 burpees
21 KB swings
5 burpees

This routine looks interesting to me, I might have to give it a try--but I'll probably start with 15 swings and take it from there!

[FelthRogan]

I find that I use my KB mainly for core/oblique work. Figure 8's through the legs are nice plus windmills.
Those are just 2 of many many more KB core exercises.

[Ej63090]

What Size KB are you using?

Absolutely.

Try this routine and judge for yourself:

21 KB swings
5 burpees
18 KB swings
5 burpees
15 KB swings
5 burpees
12 KB swings
5 burpees
9 KB swings
5 burpees
6 KB swings
5 burpees
3 KB swings
5 burpees
6 KB swings
5 burpees
9 KB swings
5 burpees
12 KB swings
5 burpees
15 KB swings
5 burpees
18 KB swings
5 burpees
21 KB swings
5 burpees

[KBKB]

One movement that I keep meaning to incorporate into my routine is the Turkish Get Up. It seems like it might be helpful for dealing with some imbalance/dysfunction between the right/left sides of my body. No reason you couldn't use DB's for that as well, I suppose.

I really like TGUs.

Gray Cook thinks it's better to use a kettlebell than a dumbbell for TGUs. Cook and Jones go so far to say that if you don't have a kettlebell or some other implement that will hang, they'd rather have you do the TGU without weight.

Here's a video - which is from Kettlebells from the Ground Up - where they discuss this:

[KBKB]

Absolutely.

Try this routine and judge for yourself:

21 KB swings
5 burpees
18 KB swings
5 burpees
15 KB swings
5 burpees
12 KB swings
5 burpees
9 KB swings
5 burpees
6 KB swings
5 burpees
3 KB swings
5 burpees
6 KB swings
5 burpees
9 KB swings
5 burpees
12 KB swings
5 burpees
15 KB swings
5 burpees
18 KB swings
5 burpees
21 KB swings
5 burpees

Yikes. Looks really hard to me.

[KBKB]

i'm at work though, i can't do it right now, also i don't have my kbs!

but ya thanks, is that done without any rest? or do you break it up. honestly i can't pull that off, but just curious.

lately i've been hearing about hardstyle and other such complications and want to just be as simple as i can.

Hard style utilizes a lot of tension throughout the body and utilizes a breathing pattern where you exhale and then quickly inhale at the top of the swing. If you use this style with a challenging weight, you'll probably need to take have a rest between sets. This style of breathing is sometimes called paradoxical breathing.

If you want to do long sets with no break, you should use what is called anatomical breathing where you exhale on the way down and breath in on the way up. You should probably not be swinging really heavy bells when using this technique, at least not at the outset. Typically, when this breathing style is used, the form is more relaxed (less tense) as well.

To see how complicated breathing can get when performing a snatch, take a look at this video:

[ProtienandIron]

Mixing swings with other high intesity work is what gives me the best results. I think you could do with some heavier kbs, Domicron. Swinging for 8mins is a big like doing the stationary bike at the gym on the lowest setting for an hour. You can get great cardio benefits by going heavier, for a lot less swings, and get some extra deadliftstrength to boot. KBsand burpees as suggested by Daniel are a killer combo as the two movements use almost opposite prime movers. Another good one is sledgehammer/tyre work. S/hammer swings again work almost work the opposite prime movers and yet they are both total full body movements, not to mention very explosive.

[daniel327]

What Size KB are you using?

I use a 28 kg KB for this routine.

[Domicron]

thanks for the awesome advice. i think i'll either try going heavier for shorter periods of time first, and then start adding burpees as the intensity lowers and they become easier.

[KBKB]

thanks for the awesome advice. i think i'll either try going heavier for shorter periods of time first, and then start adding burpees as the intensity lowers and they become easier.

I mix things up depending upon how I'm feeling on a particular day. Sometimes I'll start off with some long(ish) sets at 20kg and then do shorter sets with progressively heavier bells. Or... maybe I have a light day but with lots of volume. Or a heavy day with much less volume.

One routine which I used to do, but haven't done recently is to do...

2 snatches w/ right hand
10 swings with right hand
1 transition swing switching hands
10 swings with left hand
2 snatches with left hand
...and then work back to the other side, repeating as many times as I am able. I have a gymboss program which helps me count the number of times that I do it in addition to providing me feedback with how long the snatch "rests" should be.

The nice thing about this routine is that you can get a slight rest when doing the snatches.

Another routine that I also sometimes used to do is either swings or snatches followed by a TGU from the top down. Once I'm standing again, with the bell overhead, I'll (un)snatch the bell down and transfer the bell to the other hand at which point I do more swings or snatches followed by a TGU. I haven't been doing these lately because I've decided that I want to focus on my form and do TGUs well. So, these days, I often do 2 or 3 TGUs per side with a snatch and a swing transfer to get the bell from one hand to the other. As before, these TGUs are done from the top.

I've found that sets of long cycle clean and press using two bells makes for a good workout too. Long cycle is where you clean the bell on every rep. You can do clean and press, clean and push press, or clean and jerk as long cycle. I do a press because I haven't learned the technique for performing a (kettlebell) jerk yet.

[KBKB]

I use a 28 kg KB for this routine.

Daniel is a heck of a lot fitter than I am.

[daniel327]

Daniel is a heck of a lot fitter than I am.

To be fair, I'll admit that I use my adjustable KB for everything KB related.

In its 28kg configuration, it actually only weighs in at 27.5kg.

This is another case of dubious quality Chinese manufacturing making my life easier.

[rlundregan]

How does one determine an appropriate weight to start with when doing cardio? I don't do this often, so I probably use a weight that is a little too light (just the IM KB handle itself, or maybe one or two 5 lb plates added on).

[Ej63090]

I thought there was some kind of shenanigans going on..

To be fair, I'll admit that I use my adjustable KB for everything KB related.

In its 28kg configuration, it actually only weighs in at 27.5kg.

This is another case of dubious quality Chinese manufacturing making my life easier.

[keyboardworkout]

How does one determine an appropriate weight to start with when doing cardio? I don't do this often, so I probably use a weight that is a little too light (just the IM KB handle itself, or maybe one or two 5 lb plates added on).

Add weight with swings until you start to feel them in your lower back instead of your glutes and hams.

The HCB is great because you can go really heavy. I sometimes do 150 pound swings for ballistic reps (reset every rep).


Speaking of glutes.

[rlundregan]

Add weight with swings until you start to feel them in your lower back instead of your glutes and hams.

The HCB is great because you can go really heavy. I sometimes do 150 pound swings for ballistic reps (reset every rep).


Speaking of glutes.

Thanks!

I like the look of the HCB, I might consider that if I end up using my IM handle often enough to approach the 80 lb max on it.












Which means I'll probably never need an HCB...

[KBKB]

Thanks!

I like the look of the HCB, I might consider that if I end up using my IM handle often enough to approach the 80 lb max on it.

You can also go this route using your IM handle. This is Vermonter's photo of a 150lb configuration.

[rlundregan]

You can also go this route using your IM handle. This is Vermonter's photo of a 150lb configuration.

Holy crap! I had forgotten about that thing!

[throwaway3441]

Thanks!

I like the look of the HCB, I might consider that if I end up using my IM handle often enough to approach the 80 lb max on it.

That looks nice but there has to be a cheaper way to do it. That's $144 shipped. Maybe a Rogue Loading Pin ($30 shipped) and... I don't know. A DIY approach doesn't come to mind. I bet a handle from BWTG would cost less than $114.