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  1. #1
    Spartan 205 d_jones's Avatar
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    Can protein shakes damage your liver?

    I just read something to that effect in somebody's signature and it got me thinking...

    Can protein shakes some how damage your liver? Indeed can they be bad for any part of your body! ??
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  2. #2
    just skip it |ceman's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by d_jones View Post
    I just read something to that effect in somebody's signature and it got me thinking...

    Can protein shakes some how damage your liver? Indeed can they be bad for any part of your body! ??
    When taken as directed, and assuming a normal whey, casein or mix protein...no. It is just a powdered form of the food source it was made of. Whey and casein are basically dehydrated milk fractions with maybe some digestive enzymes and amino acids added (depending on the brand).
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    Originally Posted by d_jones View Post
    I just read something to that effect in somebody's signature and it got me thinking...

    Can protein shakes some how damage your liver? Indeed can they be bad for any part of your body! ??
    no. If you have a pre-existing kidney problem though, then it might exacerbate the problem(make it worse).
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    Thanks. I use ON's whey (just out of interest).

    On searching the net I found this on a Vitamin forum about protein powders:

    http://vitamincfoundation.org/forum/...pic.php?t=1257

    It's probably just crap but might be worth a read if your bored.
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  5. #5
    Go Niners!!! The Gootz's Avatar
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    That was an interesting read, thanks for the link. For those of you who are too lazy to check out the link or even read it in its entirety, here's a REALLY interesting post from one of the members:

    Well protien powder is worthless unless you have available enzymes to break it down or vitamins to assimilate it.
    Protien alone does not equate to muscle mass.

    Supplemental protease enzymes breaks down protein.

    Too much protien uses up vital pancreatic enzymes.

    Most people have a substantional drop in digestive enzymes at about age 30 due to the processed food diet, microwave food, meat protien. Enzymes are easily destroyed in the microwave or by over heating vegetables past 100 degrees.

    A piece of meat requires substantial amounts of pancreatic enzymes to digest. Those proteins must be broken down into amino acids. You only get so many pancreatic enzymes. When theyre gone, thats it.

    When pancreatic enzymes become depleted then you can develope autoimmune conditions as the body can no longer recognize the foreign protien in the whole form. Enzymes are also needed to dismantle protien coats of virus, bacteria and cancer cells. Milk protein such as whey and casien can be a source of antigens.

    Proteins not broken down will become inflammatory protiens and inflame joints.

    Vegetables and fruits that are unprocessed have available enzymes in them so none are required by the body to break down.

    Still in order to assimilate protien vitamins D and A are needed. (Was that in the article by chance? didnt read it)

    I personally think we consume enough protein and dont need to supplement with it.

    After all look at 1200 pound hereford steer, an elephant, a rhino etc. These animals bulk up tremendously on vegetation.

    Energy from the sun transfered to the plant and minerals from the earth transfered to the plant form everything needed for mass. This is vegetable protien. A better source than animal or milk protiens.

    The difference between an eskimo and neandertol man was that eskimos ate they're meat raw, in fact the word eskimo means "one who eats raw".

    The neandertol learned to cook his meat over fire and by doing so destroyed the enzymes in the meat and this led to chronic likely painful joint problems due to inflammatory undigested proteins yet not seen in eskimos who at raw meat with enzymes.

    So my advice is to use protien sparingly. 10-20 percent.

    Have a good one.

    I'm not sure how much of that is true but it sure is an interesting perspective. I thought I would just share it for you to draw your own conclusions. I would like to hear what some of you think about this info though.
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    Originally Posted by The Gootz View Post
    That was an interesting read, thanks for the link. For those of you who are too lazy to check out the link or even read it in its entirety, here's a REALLY interesting post from one of the members:

    Well protien powder is worthless unless you have available enzymes to break it down or vitamins to assimilate it.
    Protien alone does not equate to muscle mass.

    Supplemental protease enzymes breaks down protein.

    Too much protien uses up vital pancreatic enzymes.

    Most people have a substantional drop in digestive enzymes at about age 30 due to the processed food diet, microwave food, meat protien. Enzymes are easily destroyed in the microwave or by over heating vegetables past 100 degrees.

    A piece of meat requires substantial amounts of pancreatic enzymes to digest. Those proteins must be broken down into amino acids. You only get so many pancreatic enzymes. When theyre gone, thats it.

    When pancreatic enzymes become depleted then you can develope autoimmune conditions as the body can no longer recognize the foreign protien in the whole form. Enzymes are also needed to dismantle protien coats of virus, bacteria and cancer cells. Milk protein such as whey and casien can be a source of antigens.

    Proteins not broken down will become inflammatory protiens and inflame joints.

    Vegetables and fruits that are unprocessed have available enzymes in them so none are required by the body to break down.

    Still in order to assimilate protien vitamins D and A are needed. (Was that in the article by chance? didnt read it)

    I personally think we consume enough protein and dont need to supplement with it.

    After all look at 1200 pound hereford steer, an elephant, a rhino etc. These animals bulk up tremendously on vegetation.

    Energy from the sun transfered to the plant and minerals from the earth transfered to the plant form everything needed for mass. This is vegetable protien. A better source than animal or milk protiens.

    The difference between an eskimo and neandertol man was that eskimos ate they're meat raw, in fact the word eskimo means "one who eats raw".

    The neandertol learned to cook his meat over fire and by doing so destroyed the enzymes in the meat and this led to chronic likely painful joint problems due to inflammatory undigested proteins yet not seen in eskimos who at raw meat with enzymes.

    So my advice is to use protien sparingly. 10-20 percent.

    Have a good one.

    I'm not sure how much of that is true but it sure is an interesting perspective. I thought I would just share it for you to draw your own conclusions. I would like to hear what some of you think about this info though.
    interesting but WOW! that's pretty far off . . . I don't have time to go over all the misinformation in that quote so I will just tackle a few.

    brief responses to highlighted points below

    Obviously . . . you have to exercise and consume protein if you want to gain muscle mass . . . if you lead a sedentary lifestyle and eat a lot of protein you will just get fat b/c the excess protein will be stored as fat

    vital pancreatic enzymes? your body makes digestive enzymes at a steady enough rate that this is not the case. What else are the "extra" enzymes going to be used for anyway . . . digesting yourself? If you eat a very very high protein diet you may need to supplement with extra digestive enzymes but that's not really a big deal.

    LOL not very likely your body makes the enzymes and you are not likely to run out. Being overweight and eating a diet full of high glycemic foods can predispose you to developing insulin resistance which can progress to type II diabetes

    You can develop autoimmune disorders at any point and it has nothing to do with enzymes running out . . . the opposite can happen, in certain autoimmune dzs the enzymes run out b/c your body is destroying the pancreas so it can't make anymore. Take Type 1 diabetes as an example - the cause is unknown but viruses, genetic predisposition and dietary antigens (adding certain foods too early as an infant) are some top suspects . . . the end result is your body destroys beta cells in the pancreas leading to loss of ability to make insulin.

    yes cooking meat over fire deactivates any enzymes in his food and it also kills any bacteria that might be on the meat thus protecting you from infection. Additionally unless one is cooking a pancreas this is not going to make a difference b/c we do not have digestive enzymes in our muscle aka meat. How do we know which of our ancestors had painful joints and which did not?
    Disclaimer: While I have an M.D. the views I express are not to be taken as medical advice under any circumstances. Please check with your own doctor if you want medical advice as he/she has access to your info and can provide the most accurate advice.


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  7. #7
    just skip it |ceman's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by The Gootz View Post
    That was an interesting read, thanks for the link. For those of you who are too lazy to check out the link or even read it in its entirety, here's a REALLY interesting post from one of the members:

    Well protien powder is worthless unless you have available enzymes to break it down or vitamins to assimilate it.
    Protien alone does not equate to muscle mass.

    .........

    So my advice is to use protien sparingly. 10-20 percent.

    Have a good one.

    I'm not sure how much of that is true but it sure is an interesting perspective. I thought I would just share it for you to draw your own conclusions. I would like to hear what some of you think about this info though.
    Last I checked this was bodybuilding.com, not geriatricoldfarts.com, right? If you want to build muscle, you need to provide the basic building blocks required. Protein sources contain the amino acids required for muscle growth. A low protein diet will stunt your muscle gains. Guaranteed.

    For those first starting out, you need to slowly increase your protein intake, as your body will adjust to the food you are giving it. Like most body systems, enzyme production will adjust according to the needs placed against it. Experienced bodybuilders can eat 300-400 grams of protein a day without any problems, but a newbie will be running to the toilet on that diet!

    Protein powders are not evil, but rather a convenient way to ensure you get the protein you need for your diet and exercise goals. They are simply dehydrated protein sources much like beef jerky is dehydrated, lean beef.

    Oh, and whoever thinks that you only need 10-20% of your daily caloric intake from protein...what does the rest of your macro profile look like? Carbs and fats! What will your body look like after 6 months on this diet? You'll sooner die from diabetes than you will from any 40% protein induced "illnesses".

    There are so many good reasons for protein, too many to post here. The arguments posted against protein above are largely mis-information and scare tactics. The "proof is in the pudding", find healthy strong individuals and ask them what they are doing.
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    Go Niners!!! The Gootz's Avatar
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    I think what I posted was bs too, but I posted to get the exact reaction I did. To disprove it. So thanks for the info
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    That is the most retarded thing I have ever seen in my life, and a prime example of why the internet can be so dangerous as far as being a source to acquire information in that literally ANYBODY can pose as a rocket scientist.

    The reference to an elephant in relation to a human was enough for me. They have EVOLVED to process foods a certain way in order to survive, and I do not even need to go into any detail about that. Moron...
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    I'm taking this health class in collage where we have to make a health goal...mine is..well since I work out...to eat about 200g of protein on lifting days and about 170 (my weight) on resting days). Well after a few weeks, she thinks that the amount of protein I take in is too high. I know that there have been several research papers published about the risk of taking too much protein (such as calcium gets used up faster, or dehydration, ect), but I don't think I will be faced with those problems as I have a good balanced meals. What can I tell her (well, we have to write it in our 'health journals') to make her realize that it's not as bad as she thinks?
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    if you have any problems with the gout or uric acid produced kidney stones, the last thing you want to do is increase your protein intake. if you eat a clean, well balanced diet you really dont need supp's. only my opinion.
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    Originally Posted by The Gootz View Post
    Well protien powder is worthless unless you have available enzymes to break it down or vitamins to assimilate it.
    You can say the same thing about carbs and fats. Everything is broken down by enzmes which first need minerals to function. If you have a definciency in minerals then your likely to have only a percentage of your enzymes working. As for vitamins their exact function is "to aid reactions in the body, and to release the energy in food". In other words macronutients give you the energy but it cant be tapped into without vitamins. This is from the ACE Manuel.

    My opinion is protein isnt dangerous to healthy kidneys as long as you are drinking adequate water, which is another very important nutrient that aids in chemical reaction. if your worried about digesting protein or anything for that matter you can buy digestive enzymes or eat some live bacteria yoguart.
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    Originally Posted by johnsue79 View Post
    if you have any problems with the gout or uric acid produced kidney stones, the last thing you want to do is increase your protein intake. if you eat a clean, well balanced diet you really dont need supp's. only my opinion.
    Well eating a "balanced diet" means that guys should eat about 60g of protein a day.
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    Registered User johnsue79's Avatar
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    if i remember correctly 60g of protein for the average adult male according to gov. guidelines sounds about right, however there are many folks out there who have problems due to high levels of uric acid which is a by-product of protein.
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    Yup. So I think I'll just tell her that I eat a balanced diet as well as hydrate myself really well, on top of the protein I take.
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    just skip it |ceman's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by johnsue79 View Post
    if i remember correctly 60g of protein for the average adult male according to gov. guidelines sounds about right, however there are many folks out there who have problems due to high levels of uric acid which is a by-product of protein.
    If you trust the gov't guidelines... Take a look around america and see where the nutrition pyramid and other gov't guidelines got us. The gov't guidelines would be better to ban fast food joints like McD.

    If you are only getting 60g of protein a day, where are the rest of the calories coming from? Carbs and fats. Like I said earlier, follow that diet and you'll be needing insulin to manage your sugar before too long. The human body was not designed to each so much refined starches and fats. It just isn't healthy.

    It is true that if you don't drink enough water, you can get problems. I have a friend who started a lifting/diet program that increased his protein, but he did not drink enough water. He also got a lot of his protein from seafood (specifically shellfish) and got a case of the gout (buildup of uric acid) for his poor hydration.

    I drink between 1-2 gallons of water a day and eat 1-1.25 grams of protein per pound of body weight a day without any problems. It was also when I started increasing my protein supplementation that my body fat started to really drop off. I'm scheduling a checkup with my doc in a few weeks to see how my health has improved since my last checkup (over a year ago), so this should be a more definitive answer to if protein supplementation is good or bad for you. I full well expect good news!
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    Originally Posted by little_dan View Post
    If you trust the gov't guidelines... Take a look around america and see where the nutrition pyramid and other gov't guidelines got us. The gov't guidelines would be better to ban fast food joints like McD.

    If you are only getting 60g of protein a day, where are the rest of the calories coming from? Carbs and fats. Like I said earlier, follow that diet and you'll be needing insulin to manage your sugar before too long. The human body was not designed to each so much refined starches and fats. It just isn't healthy.

    It is true that if you don't drink enough water, you can get problems. I have a friend who started a lifting/diet program that increased his protein, but he did not drink enough water. He also got a lot of his protein from seafood (specifically shellfish) and got a case of the gout (buildup of uric acid) for his poor hydration.

    I drink between 1-2 gallons of water a day and eat 1-1.25 grams of protein per pound of body weight a day without any problems. It was also when I started increasing my protein supplementation that my body fat started to really drop off. I'm scheduling a checkup with my doc in a few weeks to see how my health has improved since my last checkup (over a year ago), so this should be a more definitive answer to if protein supplementation is good or bad for you. I full well expect good news!
    Good point about the fact that eating less protein means that your have to get the rest of your calories from fat and other unhealthy sources. I didn't think about it that way. I'll make that as my argument for my health teacher.
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    Registered User johnsue79's Avatar
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    i didn't say i take 60g of protein. i,m making reference to the folks out there who have problems with uric acid. i personally drink no less than a gal. of water daily and my dietary protein intake, based on my physical size, mass & definition are the results of eating a diet high in complex carbs, (fruits, veg., whole grains etc.) my diet includes a modest amount of fish, chicken & small portions of red meat. i eat no bad fats.(period), only the poly & mono variety. i take no supps. ive never looked or felt better in my life since my lifestyle change. btw, i couldnt agree more with you regarding burger king, mcdonalds, etc, their the worst suicidal, self induced evil in this country.
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    Originally Posted by d_jones View Post
    I just read something to that effect in somebody's signature and it got me thinking...

    Can protein shakes some how damage your liver? Indeed can they be bad for any part of your body! ??
    It depends on the amount of whey protein you consume. If you consume it for a long period of time at a stretch without taking a break then yes it affects the liver. Too much of anything is not good. If you want to be on the safe side use liv 52. it was recommended to me by my doctor as i am a body builder and depend alot of whey protein and other mass gainers.

    Link to product - USA Website = healthyliverplus.com
    UK = healthyliver.co.uk
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    Your penis will shrink and you liver will fail
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